Tier/Trinkets/Role Gearing Priority for SoO 5.4

[Deleted]

Then do the math accounting for that. It's still better than some random guy's word. And yes, a mage from method saying gear should go to mages first without any shred of supporting evidence is just a random guy who wants loot first.

I've seen my share of prominent players from top guilds who are horrible at theorycrafting (Kungen anyone?)

Sry, no I won't do the math, if you would like to go ahead, I'm just pointing out obvious flaws and biases with shammy friend's calculations.

I don't know the best class for it either, but if you wanna throw numbers at people, you better be sure they'll call you out on shit if you get it wrong, especially if it's immediately obvious like that.

[Azlo]

Sry, no I won't do the math, if you would like to go ahead, I'm just pointing out obvious flaws and biases with shammy friend's calculations.

I don't know the best class for it either, but if you wanna throw numbers at people, you better be sure they'll call you out on shit if you get it wrong, especially if it's immediately obvious like that.

He also didn't factor in that combustion is getting nerfed by 60%, which'll skew the mage crit damage contribute down.

Also, the ~350-400 secondary stats that the shaman is gaining.

You are absolutely right, in that it's quite a complex calculation, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that all the biases were in favor of the shaman.

[allianceTrade]

It really comes down to what I said before.

Stop using Methods gearing strategy for your raid. If you're in a top 10 guild you already have your own gearing strategy and priority. If yore not, this information is irrelevant to you. Blindly following players in top guilds just because they're in top guilds is stupid and leads to many of the perceived problems people see (specs in raids, sitting specs/classes, gear strategy, priorities). They are not problems, you just think they are because you're only looking at the top .01% of players and ignoring everything else. Bad way to play the game (Ghostcrawler agrees)

[Nobleshield]

It really comes down to what I said before.

Stop using Methods gearing strategy for your raid. If you're in a top 10 guild you already have your own gearing strategy and priority. If yore not, this information is irrelevant to you. Blindly following players in top guilds just because they're in top guilds is stupid and leads to many of the perceived problems people see (specs in raids, sitting specs/classes, gear strategy, priorities). They are not problems, you just think they are because you're only looking at the top .01% of players and ignoring everything else. Bad way to play the game (Ghostcrawler agrees)

At the same time though, looking at what the best of the best of the best are doing can be a useful way to formulate your own strategies. It's foolish to blindly follow like in DS I think when someone in Paragon or Method or one of those guilds said Resto Shamans were garbage, and everyone was like "We all need to bench our Resto Shamans they can't heal because Paragon said so!" and then a bunch of Resto Shamans posted things like "My raid team told me to reroll because my class is bad but I had no issues healing!" and the like, but you can look at what they are doing as something to emulate because that's what everyone strives towards being (or should, anyways).

IMO DPS > Tank > Healer is always a viable strategy unless you are running into issues with tanks dying or healers struggling, and then you accommodate. You never say 100% we gear this way and never ever ever deviate, because that's stupid. You adapt and evolve as necessary for YOU, but there's nothing wrong with using what Method does as a baseline for customizing it to suit your needs.

[Fluorescent0]

At the same time though, looking at what the best of the best of the best are doing can be a useful way to formulate your own strategies. It's foolish to blindly follow like in DS I think when someone in Paragon or Method or one of those guilds said Resto Shamans were garbage, and everyone was like "We all need to bench our Resto Shamans they can't heal because Paragon said so!" and then a bunch of Resto Shamans posted things like "My raid team told me to reroll because my class is bad but I had no issues healing!" and the like, but you can look at what they are doing as something to emulate because that's what everyone strives towards being (or should, anyways).

IMO DPS > Tank > Healer is always a viable strategy unless you are running into issues with tanks dying or healers struggling, and then you accommodate. You never say 100% we gear this way and never ever ever deviate, because that's stupid. You adapt and evolve as necessary for YOU, but there's nothing wrong with using what Method does as a baseline for customizing it to suit your needs.

That must have been FL. Resto shamans in dragounsoul were awesome due to basically every intense period of healing of every fight being stacked (bar zon'ozz black phase, hagara lightning phase). Heck, they even brought spirit links for spine.

[unholyness]

It really comes down to what I said before.

Stop using Methods gearing strategy for your raid. If you're in a top 10 guild you already have your own gearing strategy and priority. If yore not, this information is irrelevant to you. Blindly following players in top guilds just because they're in top guilds is stupid and leads to many of the perceived problems people see (specs in raids, sitting specs/classes, gear strategy, priorities). They are not problems, you just think they are because you're only looking at the top .01% of players and ignoring everything else. Bad way to play the game (Ghostcrawler agrees)

We have always geared Dps first and mage,boomie are the best to gear first and benefit most from the 4pc. Just because someone doesnt feel like doing all of the math in a forum post doesn't mean it isnt true and from the majority of the posts on here none of that will even matter as it seems to be getting more and more casual on Mmo. Just as the Amp trinket should go to mages/locks first because they do benefit from it more than other classes but people want it all spread out for them because they are too lazy to do it themselves.

[Vathral2]

I can't remember a time this last tier where I thought to myself "Man, our tank is getting wrecked by X ability, if only he had a couple more pieces of tier gear."

I can remember far more times where I thought to myself "man, if only our dps had more gear, the boss would've died quicker to get us out of this dumb encounter faster"

I always valued our damage far more as more damage from your raid group as a whole will generally always be far more valuable and continues to scale in the way of overall benefit way better than better mitigation/more mana to work with.

Unless the answer is clear cut to dispute otherwise, our raid roster is gonna go DPS > tank > healer, faster bosses die, faster you can progress in the course of a raid lockout. Phenominal dps will always push the value of gear far more than a tank ever can, and that's just the nature of the game right now, so you play to that strength if you can spare it and adjust accordingly.

[Tomikadzi]

Sry, no I won't do the math, if you would like to go ahead, I'm just pointing out obvious flaws and biases with shammy friend's calculations.
I don't know the best class for it either, but if you wanna throw numbers at people, you better be sure they'll call you out on shit if you get it wrong, especially if it's immediately obvious like that.

Fails to factor in how crit damage interacts with ignites or combust damage. 0/10 would not trust as politician.

True, my fail.
Additional 8% crit damage will give 0.96% damage for ignite ticks, 0.48% for combustion ticks and 5(4.9984 to be fair)% for combustion crits and stupid me calculated combustion crits with 8% crit damage.
Assuming combustion nerf and haste/mastery/spirit on AMP trinket I'd say mages shouldn't be 1st in getting it

[FobManX]

Probably depends on the type of raid group you have. For example in our guild we have some people who are...lets say flaky. So better to reward the players who show up consistently and perform well, even if their class may be substandard.

[Deleted]

He also didn't factor in that combustion is getting nerfed by 60%, which'll skew the mage crit damage contribute down.

Also, the ~350-400 secondary stats that the shaman is gaining.

You are absolutely right, in that it's quite a complex calculation, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that all the biases were in favor of the shaman.

Yeah all I mean is that it's a more complex calculation than shammy friend would make it appear.

True, my fail.
Additional 8% crit damage will give 0.96% damage for ignite ticks, 0.48% for combustion ticks and 5(4.9984 to be fair)% for combustion crits and stupid me calculated combustion crits with 8% crit damage.
Assuming combustion nerf and haste/mastery/spirit on AMP trinket I'd say mages shouldn't be 1st in getting it

Care to show your workings for the class? Did you take into account the haste and mastery gains too? What gear are you working with?

You could be a math genius for all I know, but those numbers mean nothings without workings, sorry.

If they're correct? Then wonderful, more data to make decisions with.

Moral of what I'm saying is:

And I'm not certain.
Politics say many things, they are even more succesful than some mage from Method. Do you believe them mindlessly?

So in this case you're the random guy we're not supposed to believe mindlessly with wrong numbers and bias shown, then irritation when this is pointed out.

Overall I'd say just stick it on your best performing caster who wants it that is least likely to quit mid-progress if you can if you don't believe the top guild guys (who can be wrong).

[cyqu]

And I'm not certain.
Politics say many things, they are even more succesful than some mage from Method. Do you believe them mindlessly?
Saying AMP DPS trinket is 1st prio for mages is just a random phrase which is not confirmed by calculations.

what kind of stupid shit did i just read??

your math is dumb, and ele gains are massive from it, and its not even big due to the crit math that you are trying to bring it. i wasn't saying the person was wrong i was saying him and you are just a fools arguing for the sake of arguing.

[Chaosturn]

I disagree with the specific dps class that gets gear first. You should always hook your top performers up. You could have a shit mage, but an awesome boomkin.

I don't think you'll find that many shit mages in method...

[Saoron]

Are you guys dense (the ones disagreeing with vykina) ? Esp the ele shaman lol.. Mages/locks are the top dps in the game right now, and will continue to be in 5.4.. Let's use your logs:
Blatty dps: 297k (rank 2)
Leeds dps: 249k (rank 1) [i.e. Mage >> Ele]

Blatty with new trinket (according to your math): 297385 + 17262 = 314,617 DPS
Leeds with new trinket (according to your math): 248368 + 20104 = 268,472 DPS

So that trinket would have to net an ele ~66k dps to just be on equal footing with the mage.. (this is using the same parameters you were.. current patch, single target, top parses) i.e. Mages >> Ele..

So no one cares that the trinket is a bigger % dps boost of your total dps.. Even with the boost you can't even touch a mage's base dps.. mage will do more damage than an ele with that trinket, period. Spends all this time calculating the raw dps gain for each class.. fails to realize that fire dps is way higher than ele.. I tip my hat to your ignorance good sir!

[Nitwit]

Spends all this time calculating the raw dps gain for each class.. fails to realize that fire dps is way higher than ele.. I tip my hat to your ignorance good sir!

If the trinket was worth 1 dps for fire and 20,000 dps for elemental, you wouldn't give it to the fire mage just because 297385+1 > 248368+20000.

If the trinket is worth more raw DPS for an ele shaman, then it goes to the ele shaman.

[Razecog]

-questionable maths-

The raid GAINS 3k DPS by giving it to the Ele over the Mage using your numbers. Yet you say it's more beneficial giving it to the mage. Logic = ?

[Floopa]

Those who have the most stressful job will be rewarded last, as everytime

Since when has healing been stressful? You can AFK heal with a Monk, Shaman, or Druid in normal modes tbh.

The raid GAINS 3k DPS by giving it to the Ele over the Mage using your numbers. Yet you say it's more beneficial giving it to the mage. Logic = ?

Mages are useful on more than 2 fights?

[Kalmah]

Since when has healing been stressful? You can AFK heal with a Monk, Shaman, or Druid in normal modes tbh.

Since when did normal modes matter?

[Floopa]

Since when did normal modes matter?

If healing is stressful for you, you're probably doing normal modes. I'm being an arse because I'm emo. It happens.

[Deleted]

Well, I'll be getting the plate DPS gear, since we roll with rogue/lock/mage/boomkin/ele/shadow as our other DPS choices. Except if DK and Paladin tanks suddenly start hogging crit, which I hope they don't :<

[Aboubacar]

I lol'ed at the logic of giving a piece of gear to the highest dps class even though the higher overall raid dps gain would be giving it to the lower simmed class in the above example.

tldr: Do what is best for your raid and the highest raid dps increase if all players equally skilled.