[5.4] Bottled Fury: A Windwalker PvE Guide

[Ezyah]

okay it s 3 week in 5.4 now and i have to say i really like the new ww. getting rid of that trinket dependency was the best thing that happened to us and we still manage somehow to be on the top dps.

[Baneberry]

okay it s 3 week in 5.4 now and i have to say i really like the new ww. getting rid of that trinket dependency was the best thing that happened to us and we still manage somehow to be on the top dps.

Shhhh

IM ok with being able to be top on cleave fights, and just high elsewhere, but we need people to think its all doom and gloom.. less we get nerfed...

[Deldavala]

I am currently using a HC AoC and are quite happy with the results. The low CD on Energizing gives you more moments when you can pop energizing+TeB at the same time(maximising the TeB). Together with the 4set I can really let my haste go. Currently I am at 5702 since I frankly cant get it any lower. But I will do some more testing.

I am still not sure if its our BiS though. Ticking(which havnt dropped) Looks very strong aswell.

[Callimonk]

I am currently using a HC AoC and are quite happy with the results. The low CD on Energizing gives you more moments when you can pop energizing+TeB at the same time(maximising the TeB). Together with the 4set I can really let my haste go. Currently I am at 5702 since I frankly cant get it any lower. But I will do some more testing.

I am still not sure if its our BiS though. Ticking(which havnt dropped) Looks very strong aswell.

I'm actually playing with a norm TeD and hc AoC. The nice thing is that the proc on AoC is reliable and HUGE. 15K agi is quite a LOT. I honestly believe that is one of its main strengths.

TeD I'm not as impressed with though the static stats are nice. Have to save RSK and/or FoF for its proc and hope they line up, which with AoC is actually a bit easier imo. Though, even with AoC, I'm still playing with around 7.5k haste. Personally I would like a Haromm's over TeD, as the multistrike proc is still 5% extra dmg and the agi proc on it is also very good.

[Deldavala]

I'm actually playing with a norm TeD and hc AoC. The nice thing is that the proc on AoC is reliable and HUGE. 15K agi is quite a LOT. I honestly believe that is one of its main strengths.

TeD I'm not as impressed with though the static stats are nice. Have to save RSK and/or FoF for its proc and hope they line up, which with AoC is actually a bit easier imo. Though, even with AoC, I'm still playing with around 7.5k haste. Personally I would like a Haromm's over TeD, as the multistrike proc is still 5% extra dmg and the agi proc on it is also very good.

I got Haromm on the thursday raid, but havnt tested it in a raid setting yet. But I tried it out on dummy and the procc was between 4-7% of my total dps. So I would say Haromm is going to be BiS with either AoC or Ticking

[Runewrath]

I got Haromm on the thursday raid, but havnt tested it in a raid setting yet. But I tried it out on dummy and the procc was between 4-7% of my total dps. So I would say Haromm is going to be BiS with either AoC or Ticking

Really want to start testing out some trinkets but we have yet to have a single AGI trinket drop this tier other than 2 AoC's week one that went to our two hunters. Me and our 3 rogues have all coined Shamans and Siegecrafter and only one of us as coined a trinket. =[ RNG sucks.

But I've been running with low haste and high FoF usage and I have been yielding very good results. The only fights I add some haste are Galakras/Spoils, and now maybe heroic Malkorok.

[thebdc]

I have a question about the stat priority with AoC. It says that:

You got the T16 4set bonus and good gear, and/or also use Cooldown Reduction Trinket

the stat priority changes from

hit/exp caps > haste softcap > agility > crit > mastery > haste beyond softcap > hit beyond softcap

to

hit/exp caps > haste softcap > agility > mastery >= crit > haste beyond softcap > hit beyond softcap

I can understand why mastery gets more valuable with the T16 4set, but why with AoC?

[Deleted]

To be honest it doesn't. AoC is only an upgrade for low levels of gear really or for very few and specific fights in higher gear. You're far better off sticking with Haromm's as bis for all fights with Sigil of Rampage (situational) / Ticking Evon Detonator / Thok's Tail Tip Thok the Bloodthirsty. Even though Thok's gives you a str proc the % stat bonus is so massive in comparrison to ticking, especially at higher gear levels where you are capped on mastery anyway; (i.e. can spam 10 stacks on cd) which you can easily achieve in 565+ gear.

Over all mastery and crit are pretty equal regardless of whether you are using AoC anyway untill you hit said mastery cap/crit 60%softcap

[fasti]

Over all mastery and crit are pretty equal regardless of whether you are using AoC anyway untill you hit said mastery cap/crit 60%softcap

I tried to edit with simcraft priority list to actually show this, but I couldn't get mastery to ~double it's value in any situation/gear combination. Maybe someone has better luck than me, but atm I can see that upping overcapped crit and haste still gives more dps than upping mastery. Even upping hit when it's over the cap might be more dps than mastery...

[Deleted]

aggreed. considering how mele swings can crit nowadays for over 140k more hits = more win once haste+crit+mastery capped. Just rediculous that we can 'cap' on all 3 stats to begin with tbh

[Callimonk]

aggreed. considering how mele swings can crit nowadays for over 140k more hits = more win once haste+crit+mastery capped. Just rediculous that we can 'cap' on all 3 stats to begin with tbh

Technically you never cap on Mastery, you just get to a point where you will constantly have stacks and will probably waste some.

And technically your white hits can still crit after 60% or so crit, so that's not really wasted.

And, technically, you still benefit from haste beyond your energy comfort zone.

[Deleted]

I see the mastery softcap (where you can reach nearly 100% uptime on a 10 stack TeB) mentioned quite a lot on these forums.
If you spend 1 Chi / second, you gain 3.75 TeB stacks during a use. You'd need about 166% extra procs from mastery to get to the cap. I don't think that it's that easy to reach as some people say here.
Some quick math: 240 mastery = 1% (e.g. I have 4797 mastery, which is a 19.99% increase). 20% is our base mastery. To get 146% extra procs, we would need 35040 mastery, minus 3000 from the raidbuff. That would result in 32040 mastery to get to the cap. A little lower with CB, but because that's only 2 1/2 stacks every 3 TeB uses at the cap, it shouldn't make that much of a difference.
Or am I missing something here?

[Babylonius]

I see the mastery softcap (where you can reach nearly 100% uptime on a 10 stack TeB) mentioned quite a lot on these forums.
If you spend 1 Chi / second, you gain 3.75 TeB stacks during a use. You'd need about 166% extra procs from mastery to get to the cap. I don't think that it's that easy to reach as some people say here.
Some quick math: 240 mastery = 1% (e.g. I have 4797 mastery, which is a 19.99% increase). 20% is our base mastery. To get 146% extra procs, we would need 35040 mastery, minus 3000 from the raidbuff. That would result in 32040 mastery to get to the cap. A little lower with CB, but because that's only 2 1/2 stacks every 3 TeB uses at the cap, it shouldn't make that much of a difference.
Or am I missing something here?

If those numbers are correct then, with the increased uptime of RoRo that I noticed in 5.4, it would almost make sense to go back to mastery +1 since it would proc and in those 10s you'd get up to a 10 stack of TeB to use right away. Overall it wouldn't be an upgrade over other things, but to reach a number as high as 32k you'd have to use RoRo mastery+1

[Totaltotemic]

I see the mastery softcap (where you can reach nearly 100% uptime on a 10 stack TeB) mentioned quite a lot on these forums.
If you spend 1 Chi / second, you gain 3.75 TeB stacks during a use. You'd need about 166% extra procs from mastery to get to the cap. I don't think that it's that easy to reach as some people say here.
Some quick math: 240 mastery = 1% (e.g. I have 4797 mastery, which is a 19.99% increase). 20% is our base mastery. To get 146% extra procs, we would need 35040 mastery, minus 3000 from the raidbuff. That would result in 32040 mastery to get to the cap. A little lower with CB, but because that's only 2 1/2 stacks every 3 TeB uses at the cap, it shouldn't make that much of a difference.
Or am I missing something here?

Technically you can gain a rate of TEB at faster than that, Combo Breaker procs take no GCDs to generate that you wouldn't have used otherwise, and with 4p T16 you get more chi "spending" (yeah it reduces the cost but doesn't reduce the amount it contributed towards TEB, a BoK will still be worth 2 chi regardless) for fewer GCDs.

More important though is that TEB has diminishing returns on its own uptime because we try to use it in the periods of highest damage first (trinket procs, potion, bloodlust, etc) and anything after that has to be done during "base damage", which inherently devalues the TEB compared to that first amount. When you start nearing 100% uptime you have to do weird things like use TEB even if you won't have 100% uptime on a boss (like during Sha of Pride prisons or something) and it just gets awkward to manage. Either way, it's not something you'll hit unless you devolve into an entirely Jab/BoK spam rotation and prioritize mastery up into the 20k range, so I wouldn't worry about it.

[fasti]

Cleave trinket doesn't seem to work for WW's.. unless you AoE w/o clones(which is.. never?). The clones reduce your damage and it only procs from your damage and does your damage.

- - - Updated - - -

Can anyone test if Harmomm's Talisman works with clones?

Unequip weapons/procs + channel lightning vs dummy. Should be best way to notice. And check if clones can proc it on their own by spinning out of dummy range with clones up.

[Emophia]

Cleave trinket doesn't seem to work for WW's.. unless you AoE w/o clones(which is.. never?). The clones reduce your damage and it only procs from your damage and does your damage.

- - - Updated - - -

Can anyone test if Harmomm's Talisman works with clones?

Unequip weapons/procs + channel lightning vs dummy. Should be best way to notice. And check if clones can proc it on their own by spinning out of dummy range with clones up.

Do clones proc the legendary cape?

[Totaltotemic]

Cloak and meta gem procs do not have their damage reduced by having SEF active, but SEF spirits do not copy the damage either.

Just tested on a dummy, both Multistrike and Cleave effects are directly based off the damage that was done on the attack that procced them, meaning the effect itself still does 33% or copies the attack, but because the attack itself does less damage so do the trinkets. This effectively makes both trinkets less effective when using SEF, however the Cleave trinket is still very good with 3+ mobs even if it's only doing 55% damage, but I wouldn't run the Cleave trinket while also running Multistrike because then you're just kind of screwed out of using SEF altogether. Instead I recommend a "normal" trinket (Bad Juju, Talisman of Bloodlust, TED, Renataki's, etc) paired with Haromm's for single target and then when you decide to spec RJW toss the cleave trinket on instead of Haromm's. The Agi cleave trinket is still better for WW for AoE damage than it is for any other Agi spec, so I wouldn't worry too much about it.

[Emophia]

^ Oh cool, thanks for the answer.

I enjoy your blog btw.

[Deleted]

Is it worth it to buy the timeless Xuen trinket to replace my LFR Bad Juju guys ?

[Callimonk]

I see the mastery softcap (where you can reach nearly 100% uptime on a 10 stack TeB) mentioned quite a lot on these forums.
If you spend 1 Chi / second, you gain 3.75 TeB stacks during a use. You'd need about 166% extra procs from mastery to get to the cap. I don't think that it's that easy to reach as some people say here.
Some quick math: 240 mastery = 1% (e.g. I have 4797 mastery, which is a 19.99% increase). 20% is our base mastery. To get 146% extra procs, we would need 35040 mastery, minus 3000 from the raidbuff. That would result in 32040 mastery to get to the cap. A little lower with CB, but because that's only 2 1/2 stacks every 3 TeB uses at the cap, it shouldn't make that much of a difference.
Or am I missing something here?

I'm fairly certain that I suggested it. I just meant the idea that at 100% we are somehow capped, when truth is there is just the chance to generate another TeB. It would be a waste if at the end of the fight you (technically) had any stacks at all, but it also doesn't take much mastery to get to the point where you can chain TeB.