5.4 feels underwhelming...:(

[Lovecrafts]

And the bit where Wratihon and Cho where bigging you up in Seat of Knowledge was not epic?

Sure seemed it to me.

I would much rather have the cloak for progression than having it after we killed Garosh.

Except it was done in such a cheesy way with forced bits of humor that you couldn't take it seriously.

[melodramocracy]

3 months ago:

"ToT is way overtuned on normal, why do you hate non-hardcore players"

Today:

"SoO is way undertuned on normal, why do you have to make everything so faceroll"

[Belloc]

Maybe he held onto that small glimmer of hope that 5.4 would be interesting.

That's funny, because, aside from the lag, I have heard nothing but good things from my guildies in 5.4. Not a single bad thing was said during SoO last night. We loved it.

The new isle is a lot of fun. The raid is a lot of fun. Hell, Proving Grounds is fun.

5.4 is interesting.

[MrHappy]

OP: So, basically, you didn't read anything that the devs had to say about patch 5.4, did you? We've all known for months now that we'd be able to get the cloak within hours of logging into 5.4. They made it clear that they wanted us to be able to use our legendaries for the tier instead of getting them after the fact. We knew this.

We also knew that the difficulty progression in SoO would be much smoother than ToT. Again, devs said that putting a boss like Horridon so early in the instance was a big mistake. They didn't want to repeat that mistake, so, yes, the first four bosses are quite easy. As I said, we all knew this. Of course, it sounds like you haven't gotten any further than that, so why are you talking about how easy SoO is when you're only 4/14? I guarantee you that you'll start feeling different as you progress further and further. Furthermore, there was plenty of testing on the PTR and, like it or not, 13/13h guilds tend to progress through normals quickly. This is expected. Everyone here knew it would happen.

So here's what I don't understand. You've got 2000+ posts on this forum. All of this information was posted on the front page. Since you clearly visit MMO-Champion, how was it that you didn't already know all of this stuff that the rest of us have known for months now?

Knew you had to kill the celestial for it didn't realize it was ALL you had to do it. There is a quest to kill garrosh so i assumed you would have to get at least that far to get it.

I hope that the pace pics up but personally I prefer walls to break in various stages vs a linear ramp-up

[alfaqup]

So in 5.2 ToT was bad because Horridon was such a brick wall that people couldn't progress. Now SOO is bad because difficulty is more linear? Mindsplosion....

[Deleted]

I don't expect them to a challenge compared to ToT heroic but when you can topple bosses simply by not standing in fire and Adds>boss then there is a problem. I think that the biggest problem with SoO there is very few bosses that have an enrage timer. Some have soft enrage but sadly you can bring 10 healers and still kill bosses...to me that seems stupid.

5.4 cloak to be used in progression sure...after 1h of doing something not related to SoO...not so awesome.

The first few bosses need to be easier than they where in ToT.

Horridon was a complete and utter total cluster fuck for a lot of normal only guilds, close to 15% of guild killed
Jin'rokh and got no further, that is not good business.

Your are NOT a normal mode raider, they should not be challenging to you, especially the first few.

They are doing something wrong if they are.

[IllidariCouncil]

Doesn't matter Dar, this is the climax of the quests, it should have FELT legendary, instead it was boring. Just like the entire easy pointless grind. At no point in the legendary questline did it feel like you were doing anything legendary. It was all "queue for LFR kill bosses and collect items lul"

well like you said, theres another game coming out that you're going to play so whats it matter. To me 5.4 is prob the best patch so far. Alot of fun in flex and the isles

[Deleted]

Knew you had to kill the celestial for it didn't realize it was ALL you had to do it. There is a quest to kill garrosh so i assumed you would have to get at least that far to get it.

I hope that the pace pics up but personally I prefer walls to break in various stages vs a linear ramp-up

IMO your allowed to complain if in a month or so s your 14/14 Heroic (given that you are 10/13).

[MrHappy]

3 months ago:

"ToT is way overtuned on normal, why do you hate non-hardcore players"

Today:

"SoO is way undertuned on normal, why do you have to make everything so faceroll"

usual state of things but quite a bit of people were happy with the tuning of ToT

[Belloc]

Here, let me make this simple for everyone complaining about SoO:

If you were 10-13/13h when Firelands launched, normal Firelands was faceroll.
If you were 5-7/7h when DS launched, DS was faceroll.
If you were 12-16/16h when ToT launched, normal ToT was faceroll.
If you were 10-13/13h when SoO launched, normal SoO is faceroll.

What's the problem? Normal raids are always faceroll for heroic guilds.

[Roggan]

So, you want to spend 4 months grinding to upgrade the legendary cloak, only to raid for a week with it before it becomes useless? If so i feel like you would have a post complaining that you never got to use your legendary cloak you worked so hard on.

As far as normal difficulty, this is the same song and dance every new tier, guilds in heroic gear think normas are too easy. While my guild I just got together for SoO has some ridiculous talent, we have an avg ilvl of about 520 and we dont walk over norms yet. (Flex is hilariously luls tho)

[CR77]

As far as difficulty goes, Thunder King was downed before I left for work on 5.2 patch day. Garrosh still stands.

[Derah]

After last night 5.4 feels a bit...well disappointing. I came home last night late so I only had 15min before raid to get flasks and head out. To my surprise 1/2 of my raid was in Legendary cloaks....the first reaction was ...o.0 the fuck...It took several weeks for the gem, several weeks for the socket, several weeks for the meta....months for the dam cloak cause fuck titan rune drops.....1h for the legendary upgrade. I mean I was fine that SoO had catch up mechanics for the legendary quests...only natural given where we are...but common at least make it so you have to kill Garrosh for the fucking thing....

They already gave an explanation for it.

Come on dude, we've been working our asses off for this quest during a full expansion. Enough with the grind, its about time we get the fucking reward already. As for why give the reward BEFORE we kill garrosh, they addressed that. They wanted the cloaks to actually help guilds in progression, rather than something you have long after you have the content on farm.

"Hey, gratz on killing Garrosh 3 dozen times, here's your cloak, now...... go kill garrosh?" Come on :S

That brings me to the next point...so far the difficulty of SoO seems a joke. I feel like normal is under-tuned and it's like we were running flex. One shot first two, had dc's and stupidity for the 3rd so that took a bit of time but overall i think under 10-12 wipes (some were quick). Sha was also under 7-8 wipes. While we had people lag out and fixing shit and taking a 15min break a friend of mine is 7/14. This feels like an easier version of DS all over again.

inb4 "har har normals are a joke talk to me when you clear heroic" but if i recall Horridon in ToT > first 4 in SoO. I've killed Jinrok and Horridon pre-nerfs. Those fights took some effort and was challenging but we still did it. Hell even Horridon with the 10man "nerf" was hard then this.

Also addressed by blizzard. They said it was a mistake to add a fight as brutal as horridon as a SECOND boss. Most guilds went to ToT, killed Jin, and then faced an unbreakable ceiling with horridon. SoO has a larger pool of bosses so they wanted the first 4 to be doable by a larger pool of players, so that when you're getting your face melted by nazgrim or the dark shaman, you can at least do the first 4-6 bosses and gear up your raid, and then try again with better loot.

I am just a bit disappointed with how easy it is to get the cloak

Except its not. Barring catch-up mechanisms, to even get to the point were you fight the celestials, you had to be doing a grind for the better part of a year, I don't call that easy. (Ok, maybe Time-consuming would be a more accurate term)

I still like WoW and I found SoO to be a cool looking and interesting mechanics raid so far. The concepts are solid....I just wish they were harder.

Heroic modes. That is all.

[MrHappy]

The first few bosses need to be easier than they where in ToT.

Horridon was a complete and utter total cluster fuck for a lot of normal only guilds.

Your are NOT a normal mode raider, they should not be challenging to you, especially the first few.

They are doing something wrong if they are.

IMO your allowed to complain if in a month or so s your 14/14 Heroic (given that you are 10/13).

perhaps. Like I said ealier, aesthetically-wise, lore-wise, music/sound-wise SoO seems great so far. It is one of the only raid since Ulduar where I feel like there is a story progression going on (DS did that too but Kamehameha Thrall ruined it for some and well written story was executed badly).

Maybe it is just me but I prefer Horridon model of walls to break and push yourself vs a linear scale.

[blackblade]

After last night 5.4 feels a bit...well disappointing. I came home last night late so I only had 15min before raid to get flasks and head out. To my surprise 1/2 of my raid was in Legendary cloaks....the first reaction was ...o.0 the fuck...It took several weeks for the gem, several weeks for the socket, several weeks for the meta....months for the dam cloak cause fuck titan rune drops.....1h for the legendary upgrade. I mean I was fine that SoO had catch up mechanics for the legendary quests...only natural given where we are...but common at least make it so you have to kill Garrosh for the fucking thing....

That brings me to the next point...so far the difficulty of SoO seems a joke. I feel like normal is under-tuned and it's like we were running flex. One shot first two, had dc's and stupidity for the 3rd so that took a bit of time but overall i think under 10-12 wipes (some were quick). Sha was also under 7-8 wipes. While we had people lag out and fixing shit and taking a 15min break a friend of mine is 7/14. This feels like an easier version of DS all over again.

inb4 "har har normals are a joke talk to me when you clear heroic" but if i recall Horridon in ToT > first 4 in SoO. I've killed Jinrok and Horridon pre-nerfs. Those fights took some effort and was challenging but we still did it. Hell even Horridon with the 10man "nerf" was hard then this. Talking with few people most say that Magera was hard the first time around than the first 7! In PTR for ToT NO ONE killed Lei Shen. In SoO PTR people were wiping @ 2% ON PURPOSE so others can see the fight.

I am just a bit disappointed with how easy it is to get the cloak and with how of a cake walk normal SoO is. I mean we have LFR we now have Flex and with those are a scaled down from normal then LFR will feel like a 5man. It is too easy. People are not supposed to be 7/14 or more after one night of raiding. Lei Shen world first normal took a week and at this pace it looks like it will be killed either tonight or tomorrow and that is sad.

I still like WoW and I found SoO to be a cool looking and interesting mechanics raid so far. The concepts are solid....I just wish they were harder.

Couple things (which might've been mentioned)

The cloak: The design concept was that you'd be encouraged to use the cloak for the entirety of the tier. I don't really agree that the final step should be as quick as it seems to be, but the concept is sound. (Put entire tier on farm, get legendary, replace with the expansion pack, woo hoo.)

The Difficulty: As you said, yeah, It's normal. The design intent this time around was to have a much more linear difficulty curve. The first boss is very simple. The second is somewhat complex, but overall nothing special, the third test your raid's ability to manage personal responsibility, and it slowly goes up from there.

Overall: (just from my sampling of the raid last night) The trash didn't do a whole lot, the bosses were complicated to explain, but easy to learn by doing. You're also doing a raid tuned for people around ~510 in 540 gear, so it's no wonder you're dieseling through it.

Out of curiosity, are you running 10 or 25? I would imagine that in some cases (like the third boss) 25 would be harder.

[Trassk]

looking at this patch overall.. yeah, its not really the best we've gotten.
Sure the lore might be powerful and events, but it doesn't have enough to do.

first, they change one of the major zones in pandaria, and actually remove content from it, meaning the zone has less purpose them it did before, and so people will be less inclined to visit it.

Then, they make for us a new area, but without dailies.. and lets face it, its them taking from guild wars 2. Its a nice change of pace, it really.. this will be so short lived.

they end the barrens weekly quest, so again, less content.

And the Soo itself, well it has flexi raiding, which is a fine gimmick for some guilds, but end of the day its still a raid, you do raidy stuff, and those not in a guild need to wait week to even see it.

Overall.. this doesn't feel very impressive. If we had some things to work towards, 5man heroics, couple new scenarios too, it might have been just right, but they took out content and replaced it with even easier content.

This patch.. won't keep subs, it won't pick up subs in a major way either, and at this time you'd think the devs would be working on making ways to keep and bring back subs.

[Chaosturn]

1h for the legendary upgrade. I mean I was fine that SoO had catch up mechanics for the legendary quests...only natural given where we are...but common at least make it so you have to kill Garrosh for the fucking thing....

Thank god you can use it on progression, unlike every other useless legendary. "you have to complete progression to use something you need on progression" is so retarded.

[ItachiZaku]

I love the fact that Horridon was hard. Why? It makes sense. You have the Thunder God there and his fortress of goons. Has a troll dude greet you, beat him and... yeah, now fight this huge beast with a troll war god and all the tribes? He's making sure no one gets through. I loved it.

[Lovecrafts]

looking at this patch overall.. yeah, its not really the best we've gotten.
Sure the lore might be powerful and events, but it doesn't have enough to do.

first, they change one of the major zones in pandaria, and actually remove content from it, meaning the zone has less purpose them it did before, and so people will be less inclined to visit it.

Then, they make for us a new area, but without dailies.. and lets face it, its them taking from guild wars 2. Its a nice change of pace, it really.. this will be so short lived.

they end the barrens weekly quest, so again, less content.

And the Soo itself, well it has flexi raiding, which is a fine gimmick for some guilds, but end of the day its still a raid, you do raidy stuff, and those not in a guild need to wait week to even see it.

Overall.. this doesn't feel very impressive. If we had some things to work towards, 5man heroics, couple new scenarios too, it might have been just right, but they took out content and replaced it with even easier content.

This patch.. won't keep subs, it won't pick up subs in a major way either, and at this time you'd think the devs would be working on making ways to keep and bring back subs.

Unless the expansion is something amazing, I'm betting at LEAST another 500k to million sub loss next quarterly report.

[Deleted]

Horridon wasn't hard, because if it was really a guilds'breaker, Blizzard would have fixed him pretty fast with their WONDURFULL Internal proteam and gameboycolours tools.


" We have the technology and numbers " /brofist