[MW] Thok the bloodthirsty

[Lumiair]

Here's mine with ZS (10 man) The sad thing is the actual heal did more than my detonation cause I was horrible about keeping it up. Regardless, it still did more than my Chi Wave did the week prior though I don't have logs for that. I wish it were a more used spell so I'd be in a habit of using it. >.>
http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-17...?s=1363&e=1678

[Deleted]

I went with ZS, Xuen. Tried a bit around with CB but I actually found ZS being advantageous just because there was no chance of it being interrupted so could concentrate to just keeping it on CD while focusing on other things.

It took us a couple of tries to tie some loose ends together, due some of our dps being rather low in ilvl ( 515), pushing the AoE silence phase took some optimizing.

I can recommend ZS to be a proper MW utility in this particular fight for one. My logs haven't been updated yet, but I will confirm the actual figures from there. ( We had a composition of 1 tank, 3 heals and 6 dps)

[Deleted]

Will give RJW a try tonight, my only qualm is lack of fillers as I prefer our paladin's to HoP the DPS / Disc priest.

In all fairness it shouldn't really matter as there is not constant damage but I liked being able to stack to four chi prior to each screech.

[st33l]

I am really confused between ZS and Chi Burst for heroic.
Looking at top 10 man logs, it seems that people are using ZS to get about 6mil healing, so are others with chi-burst; I even saw a log of Chi-Wave doing about 5mil. I am not quite sure of what really will help the most though ZS on normal has always given me good results.

The other issue is with RJW versus the Tiger. Again, I am seeing conflicting results; most top logs don't seem to have RJW for 10 man, while some do.

In the end it is starting to seem like it doesn't really matter which tier 2 and tier 6 talents you take, you'll end up with similar healing (except Chi-Torpedo, since for 10 man HC, that isn't viable due to stacking requirements).

[Kenai]

I can't say if I prefer RJW (never thought I'd say that) or Xuen, but I definitely do not like Chi Torpedo on this fight (except for running away if I get targeted when his stacks are high).

I will def take Zen Sphere from now on though. It's actually somewhat effective healing throughout the whole encounter while not burning my bar like a Surging Mist-fest would. I have to be less bad about using in on CD since I'm just not used to it. 25 man PoV.

[Deleted]

Our guild has had quite a lot of wipes on heroic (10m) before we killed him. I tried pretty much every talent combination and ended up with Xuen and Chi Burst. We did it with 2 healers, but on our tries with 3 healers I found the same talents the best.

Zen Sphere felt to uncontrolled, didnt seem to pop when I wanted it to. With ChiBurst you can heal the 2 groups to full after a roar. Depending on your strat, if you push the phase to around 20 roar stacks you can even use CB more than once.

Xuen gave us a little bit of extra dps that helps. The healing it provides was a bit lower than RJW, but you dont waste any GCD / mana. It stays up for pretty much the entire phase. You might consider using it on the bats for some extra healing and aoe dmg. Because we were with 2 healers I preffered to use him during the poison kite phase to help with people who were out of range etc. Other than that I just used him during the Roar phases.
Chi torpedo doesnt seem like a smart choice when you do the 2 group strat, you might trigger the next phase by accident. The rolls are also nice to have during the kite phase.


Some other tips:
- Try using Glyph of Enduring Healing Spheres and place some healing spheres in far off kite positions. For me they often saved kiters who didnt have much selfhealing.
- Depending on the part of the fight it might be best to not have any healers kite (mostly during the poison kiting imo because of high dmg and dispells needed). Because we were with 2 healers we always tried to have dps kite.

[Spotnick]

To be fair, Zen Sphere or Chi Burst has given me pretty much always the same amount of healing everytime I swapped on the fight. Rushing Jade Wind is obviously awesome on that fight for 25s.

[Totaltotemic]

What I've found at least on 25 heroic is that despite most top rankers using Chi Burst, ZS is quite a lot more reliable to smooth out the damage curve. I tried using Chi Burst for a while but because the raid was ping-ponging in health so much between 30% and 100% there was never a way to tell that the raid would be in danger and still get Chi Burst out in time to save everyone because of its travel time and 0.5 second cast when AoEs are every ~2.25 seconds. I suppose with overall more solid healers planning Chi Burst as a straight elimination of one of the AoEs while TFT is down would be nice, but I think this is one of those rare situations where it's actually a real choice between spikier throughput and more reliable but slightly smaller throughput.

[billz]

for 10 man heroic thok, i picked zen sphere. its not all about straight hps. its about situational healing. it helped keep up the highest-risk raid members. it also served as a nice supplemental hot during the kite phases. chi burst might give you more but unless perfectly coordinated with the other healers it is borderline useless. also no utility during kite phase.

edit: i also used xuen for the first phase 1 for extra dps/heals. the cooldown generally came up right before the bats the second time through. the eminence healing on the bat cleave = godlike. why pick rjw when you have downtime between RM/uplift/expel anyways?

[Astraios]

What I've found at least on 25 heroic is that despite most top rankers using Chi Burst, ZS is quite a lot more reliable to smooth out the damage curve. I tried using Chi Burst for a while but because the raid was ping-ponging in health so much between 30% and 100% there was never a way to tell that the raid would be in danger and still get Chi Burst out in time to save everyone because of its travel time and 0.5 second cast when AoEs are every ~2.25 seconds. I suppose with overall more solid healers planning Chi Burst as a straight elimination of
one of the AoEs while TFT is down would be nice, but I think this is one of those rare situations where it's actually a real choice between spikier throughput and more reliable but slightly smaller throughput.

In most cases chi burst and zen sphere have almost equal throughput. ZS is slightly lower with many more proc chances for mastery and is instant but takes more globals.
On thok, chi burst gets 2 sets of its DR, meaning it's healing has twice the throughput of ZS. Using CT and CB along with TFT and chi brews gives a heal for the vast majority of screeches, so I feel that using ZS is essentially just giving up a large portion of throughput for a little more "reliability", and I mean a little amount. So unless your other healers are really that bad that you not having an instant 700k-1mil healing immediately after every screech is going to cause a push, then I'd say CB is by far the dominant choice.

[Totaltotemic]

So unless your other healers are really that bad that you not having an instant 700k-1mil healing immediately after every screech is going to cause a push, then I'd say CB is by far the dominant choice.

I have a Shaman that thinks that while Devotion Aura is up and he's using Ascendance that he should continue spamming Riptide hots instead of Chain Healing. Half of the time our scheduled Divine Hymns and Tranqs don't go out because they don't get the BoPs that they should on time. Yeah... not exactly Method here.

[Geodew]

Yeah actually I run Xuen/Zen Sphere for 10N.

-TFT+Xuen at the same time is crazy HPS, like Reglitch said Xuen is about +50k HPS for 45 seconds around ilvl 545, that way I don't spend my roll charges and don't have to worry about trying to SooM in between shouts for chi (because of interrupts I can only see RJW being shit, i don't get RJW people). It also helps with DPS a lot more which was something my raid needed!

-Chi Burst felt like it could maybe prolong the phase by one shout if you timed it right, Zen Sphere however exploding every 10sec sounded nicer to me, throw it on during easy parts and then it explodes while you SCK/Uplift hard parts for max burst with it, and provides more continuous throughput for the whole thing compared to CBurst. None of the options felt GREAT, though, I just ignored Zen Sphere in the last few pulses. Definitely not Chi Wave though, sounds nonsensical to me

[pepe2c]

im having some mana problems on this figth... specially trying 2 keep 100% RJW uptime

[Supliftz]

im having some mana problems on this figth... specially trying 2 keep 100% RJW uptime

This could be a number of things.

Lack of gear/poorly itemized gear.
Lack of Shamans (does make a difference with RJW spam)
No regen trinket/lmg/40%+ crit.

Don't have an armory link/wol to see what you're doing so I can't help :/.

One thing you could do is either spec into chi torpedo or xuen. Both of which do similar/higher output compared to RJW. While being far more mana efficent.
I also don't know your raid size/difficulty in which you're doing. If you're 10 man you're not going to get -that- much out of RJW as it is, and should stick to xuen. If you're 25 you should use Chi Torpedo and rely on rocket boots (If you're engi), or lock portals/fethers to help with kiting in p2.

One more thing, are you keeping up RJW in p2? If you are you should consider switching to soothing in p2, to help with mana regen.

[Astraios]

I have a Shaman that thinks that while Devotion Aura is up and he's using Ascendance that he should continue spamming Riptide hots instead of Chain Healing. Half of the time our scheduled Divine Hymns and Tranqs don't go out because they don't get the BoPs that they should on time. Yeah... not exactly Method here.

Ultimately thok comes down to how well CD's are coordinated, unless you stack disc/MW, in which case they might just have the raw throughput to lol-through it [merely a guess though].
But mostly it comes down to coordinating CD's. Chain heal is also really strong, but that's neither here nor there.

Chi burst would still give more reactivity to respond to mishandled CD order than zen sphere would. But I'm a chi burst fan boy.

[st33l]

For 10m, CT screws up positioning and can push the boss before intended. I can't think of a strat how it would even be viable to use considering one person moving out of place can wipe the raid.

[Zombiewu]

From a 25m perspective of what I've seen Chi Burst is far better than ZS and Chi Torpedo(Using the 2 group method) is also far better than the other talents in its tier.

Chi Burst can be used more like 3-4 times when pushing up to 25 stacks also allowing you to pool Chi up to 4 each time CB comes off its CD. (Getting locked out is never a problem when making sure to start its cast directly after a screech)

I've heard Monks claim on numerous occasions that they have no mana problems in phase 1 and whilst I am not using any mana tea stacks in 1st phase I do either come close to or completely emptying out my mana bar each P1 through SCK spam as my filler for Chi Gen. making CT much more attractive for managing mana.

I find ZS to take up too many globals and be too weak of a heal in comparison to the dmg. curve that this fight brings. Thok is not steady consistent damage every second it is bursts of damage.

In Short CB-CT allows me to burst the raid back to full in prep for the next Deafening screech much faster brute forcing P1 to last as long as possible while again allowing me to pool Chi each time they are off CD for a maximum amount of Uplifts in a row, again allowing me to brute force P1 to last longer.