Welfare Legendary

[Toppy]

I raid normal with some heroic progession(We're not world first by any means. Only 2 nights a week, sometimes 1 depending on schedules) and I would be all for removing it from LFR. I'm not really sure why being a normal mode raider would mean they'd be upset if they removed it from LFR.

Likely because it's seems to be mostly normal mode raiders who complain about LFR. I seldom see heroic raiders complain about it, because they know they're better than others.

It's like normal raiders won't something to point and laugh at because they're not good enough to finish heroic.

[Farora]

Likely because it's seems to be mostly normal mode raiders who complain about LFR. I seldom see heroic raiders complain about it, because they know they're better than others.

It's like normal raiders won't something to point and laugh at because they're not good enough to finish heroic.

Heh, better than others. In the end it's all about putting in time with Wow, not so much skill.

You can bet your ass that heroic raiders complain about it too. But I have to admit that mediocre to sucky guilds complain even more.

[Toppy]

Haha... I don't know how to reply to that.

You realise that EVERYTHING in the whole fucking game requires the ability to play the game a few times a week?

With your logic nothing can be difficult if it takes a few weeks. The posters point was that only two of the legends in game had any true difficulty in getting them because the content surrounding them was difficult. Every other legend was about clearing relatively easy raids; it becoming more so about getting people all on at one time than actually being skillful in the raid itself.

MC was easy. BT was easy. ICC and DS were easy (FFS, I pugged them). Legends have a poor track record with being difficult. And this cloak has the largest time commitment of any legend to date, by far.

[PaladinBash]

I like how you people are saying "hurr durr runestones and secrets and sigils are all so RNG so it was bad!" when, you know, glaives were RNG. Bindings were RNG. Bow was RNG. Shards were RNG. So on and so forth. They're all RNG. RNG is not a measure of patience or skill or anything else. It either drops or it does not. |

The cloak Legendary was the longest and hardest to get compared to the fact you could literally turn up to one raid and get it for half of them or simply farm one raid every week with a pug and do the other half. Ulduar, Firelands, DS and ICC were all easy to find pugs for on any decent server (and on bad servers too, albeit they would rarely full clear). You could get all your shards and infusions and whatnot quite simply. "LFM DPS DS CLUSTERS RESERVED" ring a bell? I just don't really see how pugging that stuff and steamrolling it weekly was any different from LFR except you had to sit in trade and inspect people and bitch about stupid things rather than just queue and do other stuff. There really wasn't any prestige associated with them at any point with the exception of the Naxx staff (which nobody on my server even got) and maybe the Bow. Everything else, especially the Wrath-onwards ones, were simply big DPS/healing increase items that gave you a notable gameplay boost and ruined PVP in some way. I just don't see why you people act like Legendaries were this ultra rare and impossibly awesome sign that you were a god among men. It makes me start to wonder if you were all the raidless peasants they made LFR for to begin with because if you ever had a Legendary before, it did feel cool and it did feel like an accomplishment. It just didn't make stars go cold in the night sky or the ground to shake beneath your feet whenever you get out of bed in the morning. You kids make wayyyyy too big a deal about legendaries in the past.

TL;DR this legendary is fairly simple to get, it is undeniable, but they all were so get over it

[Kathranis]

....except it's also basically free to anyone with a pulse and 510ish gear now as well.

I did it at ilevel 485 back in 5.2, and I think I can safely say it was the hardest thing I've ever done in WoW, solo or otherwise. I'll probably never go back to try Kanrethad again, but is it really easier now? I understand that you can no longer use the Demonic Gateway strategy since it now has a 60 sec cooldown.

[josykay]

Cataclysm
Caster staff - Firelands. Same principle as with shadowmourne with the addition of being obtainable in 10-mans since the lockout merge of 10-/25-man raids. Higher reward came with higher difficulty. Again, I find this to be a good system.

Daggers - Dragon Soul. Same as with staff from firelands.

Were obtaining one of these items a display of true skill and dedication? Skill, not at all. However, heroic raiding guilds obtained this legendary at a higher rate than normal mode guilds, resulting in more items. 25 man raids also got it at a higher rate than 10 man to compensate for more players.

The daggers were a class specific welfare legendary simply because of the fact, that most raids only contained one rogue. There were no other people who were able to do the quest.
The Firelands-Staff was a pretty interesting weapon for Mages, Warlocks, Elemental Shamanes, Balance Druids and maybe Shadowpriests... so not everybody who was able to accept the quests was able to do it. The daggers on the other hand were different. Every rogue who got the opportunity to get a raid, even if it was a pug, since Dragonsoul was damn easy during the end, was able to complete his daggers if he really wanted to!

The Cloak is a welfare legendary. But keep in mind that it is only a cape. Capes are one of the most unimportant and weakest slots for your character. The other legendarys (except that necklace, that dropped only once before being removed) were weapons, which is the most important itemslot for every character.
In my opinion that Meta-Socket is the true legendary of the questline instead of the cape.^^

[Nemah]

I did it at ilevel 485 back in 5.2, and I think I can safely say it was the hardest thing I've ever done in WoW, solo or otherwise. I'll probably never go back to try Kanrethad again, but is it really easier now? I understand that you can no longer use the Demonic Gateway strategy since it now has a 60 sec cooldown.

I did it around 480ish ilevel as well and it was great (and never used the gateway strategy anyway, it's not needed). I went back around 508 and it was just....sad. Can't imagine what it's like at 520 and up.

[Yarathir]

Heh, better than others. In the end it's all about putting in time with Wow, not so much skill.

You can bet your ass that heroic raiders complain about it too. But I have to admit that mediocre to sucky guilds complain even more.

I rarely see any hardcores whine about LFR. If ever. I tend to see only mediocre to midcore raiders act as if they are too good for LFR and that it should be removed.


Funny enough these are also the people who whine about how you can AFK in LFR and INCIDENTALLY (ha-ha) the ones who are the AFKers in LFR. It's like a self-fulfilling prophecy driven as an argument against LFR. "B..b-but you can totally AFK in LFR GUYS!"

[Deleted]

Legendaries that come with nothing but an abysmal RNG chance is clearly more legendary than one that spans an entire expansion.

Unfortunately, that's not the case. With every major patch they are introducing a bunch of nerfs and catchup methods so it becomes easier and easier. For those of us who ''worked'' (which also isn't really the case since we all got our items simply by doing the content we wanted to do) it's definitely a well earned legendary. The problem is that if you didn't do anything at all until this day, you can pick up the legendary in a very short amount of time.

I would have considered it a legendary both for myself, raiders and people who ran LFR for it. But now, now it's just a welfare legendary. If you want it you can just go ahead and pick it up.

[lightofdawn]

its not a welfare cloak. everyone had to do the same quests to get it, and im sure the higher end people accomplished some of it in lfr too. the ppl who call it welfare are the pvp queers that complain that it gives pve players an advantage on timeless isle

[DeadmanWalking]

The fact that I can’t get an Ordos group past reset day is proof enough that this is no welfare legendary. I couldn’t play on tuesday and never once did I manage to get an ordos group.

The truth of the matter is that only raiders had the gear to down Wrathion, LFR players were coming up short as they were typically 20 ilevels short on every piece of gear which made them 260 ilevels worth of gear lower than your average raider.

There has been a huge influx to the PVP battles by non-pvpers in the last week or two as they all are pushing for their cloak now. They still have a long way to go to get their cloak.

So no, its not welfare legendary as not everyone is going to get one, and certainly everyone doesn’t have them at opening week. There are lots of guilds that have raiders who pretty much do the bare minimum to raid and they haven’t got these cloaks, nor are they close. In my 10 man we have 2 people with the cloak (I was the first to get it.) and 1 person who needs 2 more titan stones, the rest are all just after or just before the PVP content.

The difference is that everyone -can- get it if they put in enough effort. There is nothing more crappy than the old system where there was usually just enough time to get 1 person in the raid a legendary and then screw everyone else. I've read too many stories about "The guild Master told me that I would get the legendary caster staff second after him but then Dragonsoul dropped and after we helped him get it he said screw you, we're going into Dragon Soul now and we dont have time to mess with your legendary caster staff."

- - - Updated - - -

We're all special snowflakes in God...er, Blizzards eyes aren't we? *twirls around and sings* "the hills are alive with the sound of music"

I think it's actually an American condition, a lot of places in society you see a lot of rewards for mediocrity. Kids being celebrated for passing the 3rd grade, getting a "winners ribbon" for 15th place, the "special" olympics. It's part of our society as much as it shames me, Blizzard is an American company so it makes sense that kind of thinking will seep into their product.

Are you really going to shit on the special olympics and rank it right up there with graduating from the 3rd grade? God forbid we should have an event just for people unfortunate enough to be born with down syndrome and make them feel good about themselves for one day out of a year. Maybe you need to spend a lot less time posting on internet forums and a little more time doing community service and getting to know someone wuth autism, mental retardation or down syndrome. You know, do something with your life that actually means something to someone else and gives you some kind of meaning in life other than pushing 1 2 3 1 4 tab 1 2 3 1 4 tab while staring at a screen all day.

[Amerrol]

Yeah, it pretty much is welfare. I never got a Legendary before this one. I can't be bothered to run the old ones because they aren't current content, so who gives a shit. I never expected to have one handed to me though like this one was. It just feels like an OP epic that look a long time to get. I'm feeling happier that I got Garrosh down the first week and I can use the title and wolf mount for a few weeks before most people can then when I got the cloak last Tuesday. It was just something I expected as soon as I got the first quest back in 5.0, and that didn't make the reward special at all.

I think the idea of a questline lasting the whole expansion giving an awesome reward at the end is cool, it just shouldn't be a legendary. Maybe it shouldn't even be gear, because then it just becomes mandatory for raiders who want to see some sort of progression. It should be something that is avalible for a limited time as well.

[Deleted]

c[_] This is my care cup. it is empty of care regarding what people call the legendary.

[Gegan]

Legendary is a power level, just like epic is a power level. Legendary doesn't mean rare, it means better than epic. Whatever your personal view on the distribution of said power level is up to you. While the quest line isn't the hardest thing to grace WoW, it's not a snooze fest either unless you're in full heroic for said tier. Everything is easy then, so it makes that point moot.

[Venant]

We're all special snowflakes in God...er, Blizzards eyes aren't we? *twirls around and sings* "the hills are alive with the sound of music"

I think it's actually an American condition, a lot of places in society you see a lot of rewards for mediocrity. Kids being celebrated for passing the 3rd grade, getting a "winners ribbon" for 15th place, the "special" olympics. It's part of our society as much as it shames me, Blizzard is an American company so it makes sense that kind of thinking will seep into their product.

The problem with this way of thinking is that it means almost nobody ever 'accomplishes' anything. I believe that the American condition is that we do not put people on a pedestal they way they do in say, China. Otherwise nobody would criticize Barack Obama because he makes just about everyone look like a loser (when comparing personal achievements) and therefore if you aren't uber-awesome you don't have a right to say anything.

I'm willing to bet that the majority of guild-awarded legendary items were distributed based upon a popularity contest

[Servasus]

Real legendary : 25 people in a guild work their guts out so 1 person gets rewarded.
Welfare legendary : 1 person works their guts out so 1 person gets rewarded.

And no - it wasn't always possible to get the legendary on day one of 5.4 - RNG had a big say in that.

Lulz RNG? All you had to do was be on during the day when people were killing the world bosses (and EVERY realm was) and earn 5k coins which takes a whole 30 minutes if you camp frogs, and BOOM. Legendary. No fucking RNG involved in that stage of the questline.

It IS an easy to get legendary, it just takes time. Anyone who thinks it takes any real skill whatsoever to earn one is lying to themselves. All it takes is lots of time and patience, which, to be honest, you were gonna have to wait for anyway because the questline progress was gated based on Patches.

People in LFR gear with absolutely zero normal ilevel items have the cloak, and that does bother me a tad bit. Blizzard made a mistake by allowing the sigils and runestones to drop from LFR.

Perhaps next expansion if they do another legendary similarly they will learn from that.

[Murozond]

Legendaries in the future will be... different.

[Kujako]

Lulz RNG? All you had to do was be on during the day when people were killing the world bosses (and EVERY realm was) and earn 5k coins which takes a whole 30 minutes if you camp frogs, and BOOM. Legendary. No fucking RNG involved in that stage of the questline.

I've looked around but can find no place to buy a legendary for 5,000 coins. There is a quest chain, which I can't finish since it requires the Alliance to win battle grounds, but that seems much longer then you claim it is.

[HeedmySpeed]

Don't you read these forums? EVERYONE has it. People here say so, so it must be true.

This can only mean that I have misplaced mine, or accidentally deleted it. Huh.

It's not the issue of "everyone will have it" it's that "retards can obtain it" which detracts the value of the item.

It's the same issue with epics and raid accessibility.
It doesn't feel as rewarding if you could have done it in your sleep.
It doesn't feel as special if your dog could do it.

[tangers58]

Does that term bother you at all? I mean after all the work you put in. It took some people almost an entire year to achieve that final cloak. I took me 6 months and someone called it a welfare legendary. How could they. I'm a little fired up about that term. Never have I worked hard for something in a video game before. Does it bother you when its referred to as welfare?

I'd say it is welfare if you got it from LFR and not the real raid. Other than that most other legendaries were only based on getting a lucky drop, probably had to put in more time on this one than any other.