Should repeatedly AFKing in LFR get you temp "banned" from them?

[melodramocracy]

There's no really fair and failsafe process that can be implemented here.

Beyond that, folks seem to make something out of nothing. I see very few if any afk'ers during LFR's, and if there's a wipe, under-performers get kicked with no debate (in my experience, a tank is more likely to get booted than a dps for whatever reason). And if there's no wipe, onward.

[Wildberry]

Any time that I go into LFR, I actually do try to help everyone kill things quickly. However, when there are a good amount of people in full LFR epics pulling 40-70k, I stop, there's no point in putting in ANY effort, just to help people, who can't be asked to put in any effort themselves, kill some easymode bosses, Oh, and I've actually never gotten kicked for it either

the point of this story is:
-it's not just the afkers that are slackers
-there's no failsafe way to go about your proposal
-half the time, the group doesn't even realize/even care, that somebody's afk

[Deleted]

Do something else constructive in game while you're in queue? Yes, that's the correct answer here.

Then they need to fix the Q system so it doesn't drop/pause when I group with someone.

I am not in agreement here. People tend not to get booted unless the raid is wiping. In that case, I would argue that it is appropriate to kick the weakest dps and or healers. LFR is designed so that most players using it will be good enough to succeed. It's also designed to be able to carry a few people who shouldn't really be there in the first place. If those players are getting booted, it's their own fault.

Well there are different points of views here. Blizzard themselves applied the "failstack"-buff so you don't boot as many players. The stance of the devs on this is clear (imo).

I reckon it needs a small amount of modification: When you kick someone, it should pop up options which can be selected as the reason for voting. One of those options needs to be "Player is AFK". This will enable the game to start identifying the AFK'ers.

As any system where players flag players this would require a GM to look into it (if anything meaingful will happen as result). This is pretty much impossible (because it would require Blizzard to spend money).

We all know flagging someone for spam/bad language does even less than reporting them AFK in BGs or kicking them from LFRs.

The system is sufficient and I haven't seen another suggesting in this thread that wouldn't be heavily abused.

[DeadmanWalking]

I am currently on a 2 hour lock out from kicking AFK jerks on my Mistweaver, I shouldn’t be locked out from kicking afk jerks.

When you see these elitist posts about how you can do nothing in lfr and get rewarded and no one cares its B.S. We do care but typically tanks have their heads in a bosses crotch, melee dps have their heads in its butt, healers are looking at health bars and ranged are watching the floor for poop and bars for procs. The Mistweaver however has a channeled white beam which snaps its camera around to the person taking damage and its impossible to miss those AFK jerks standing in the fire and I try to kick them when I see them. Thus I am on a 2 hour lock out from kicking, down from 4.

[judgementofantonidas]

Should be a temp ban from the game, not just LFR.

in addition to getting no loot drop if the system detects that you are afk or performing so far below standard that you might as well be.

[traen]

LFR difficulty was created for baddies.
When you join LFR difficulty you sign a hidden contract saying "by pressing lfr button I agree to carry bad, stupid and afk players".

So what did you expect when you joined lfr raid? That bad players will carry you?

And what's the point of banning bad players from THEIR difficulty? It does not make any sense.

Don't blame them. They always were bad, they always will be bad.
Increase your own performance and ask other players to perform better.

In just 2-3 weeks people will know tactics better, will fail less and will have better dps. And you won't have problems carrying baddies.

[Raelbo]

Any time that I go into LFR, I actually do try to help everyone kill things quickly. However, when there are a good amount of people in full LFR epics pulling 40-70k, I stop, there's no point in putting in ANY effort,

1) the effort you put could be the difference between a wipe and a kill. It is in your interests to put in effort.
2) maybe it's not the same for you, but I enjoy pushing myself hard and seeing big numbers on my dps meter
3) when other people slack it makes LFR challenging. Again, I like a bit of challenge - up to a point ofc.

the point of this story is:
-it's not just the afkers that are slackers

True, but they are the biggest problem. I would rather have someone capable of doing 250K on a boss doing 100K than the average LFR player in my group. I would rather have someone doing 20K than someone capable of doing 1M on a boss sitting afk in the corner.

-there's no failsafe way to go about your proposal

It doesn't have to be failsafe - it just has to be better than the current setup. There is already a report afk option available for BGs. Why not make it similar for LFR?

-half the time, the group doesn't even realize/even care, that somebody's afk

In a system reliant on players reporting AFK'ers this becomes self regulating. If people genuinely don't care (or are unaware) about the afker in the corner, then no harm is being done, and it doesn't matter if they aren't reported. However what is frustrating is when this does happen, and it detracts from your game and you feel powerless to do anything about it. Having the ability to report a player AFK in an instance would go a long way towards placating those of us who do realise and care.

[Deleted]

No, you can kick people from your raid, there is no reason for a ban, same with dungeons and PvP, there is a kick option for a reason.

[tru]

getting banned? you actually have to break their terms of service and afking isnt part of that. if they ban you they just lost a subscription. just like if they actually banned gold sellers accounts and people that botted this game would probably be around 5.5million in the population range.

[threads]

This is actually true, I think. I personally AFK a lot in LFR because it's insanely boring and fights last forever. People actually trying pull 40-60k DPS in 500+ ilvl. It's just stupid. I realize that it goes slower if I AFK, and that's true, but I can at least go do something productive in the meantime somewhere else (and I usually heal anyway, and honestly LFR can be done with 2 healers, nevermind 6). There's no reason a LFR boss should take 10 minutes to kill. I'd be far more apt to actually sit and do a rotation other than auto attacking if I knew it'd be done in 5 minutes, but knowing I'll have to sit for there 10 minutes because 15 out of the 17 DPS only pull 40-50k is just discouraging and sad. I'd rather go make dinner or watch TV or something during boss fights instead.

Pretty much agree with this. If the fights didn't drag on forever because people don't know what they're doing I'd be more inclined to try. Honestly, I think just auto attacking puts me at higher damage than some people, which I imagine are just wandering around aimlessly during boss fights.

[Raelbo]

Blizzard themselves applied the "failstack"-buff so you don't boot as many players. The stance of the devs on this is clear (imo).

Ideally Blizzard want people to succeed. But they also set a minimum ilevel for entering LFR and gave us the power to kick people, provided we don't overdo it.

I think their stance is pretty clear: If someone is performing very badly and the group is unable to carry them, they expect that person to get the boot. It's a feedback loop that is necessary to ensure that even if the standards in LFR are quite low, there are still actually some standards. LFR has to make people at least do something if it is to be in any way compelling gameplay.

IMO the failstack is a carrot intended to keep people from quitting rather than to save people from getting the boot.

[Ronduwil]

This is actually true, I think. I personally AFK a lot in LFR because it's insanely boring and fights last forever.

So you make them last longer by AFKing... that makes sense. WTF? If the fight is boring then don't queue for it. Quit wasting everyone else's time. The purpose of a game is to have fun. If the game isn't fun then don't play. Just because you're bored doesn't mean you have to make the game suck for everyone else.

People actually trying pull 40-60k DPS in 500+ ilvl. It's just stupid.

No one "tries" to pull that. If they're pulling that then they either don't know any better or they're doing exactly the opposite of trying.

I realize that it goes slower if I AFK

And yet you still do it. What a guy! What do you want? A medal?

I can at least go do something productive in the meantime somewhere else (and I usually heal anyway, and honestly LFR can be done with 2 healers, nevermind 6).

You can do something productive without playing the game. Ruining everyone else's LFR run is actually counter-productive. You're the reason LFR gets nerfed all to hell. Everyone else has to compensate for your self-entitled douchebaggery.

There's no reason a LFR boss should take 10 minutes to kill.

The reason is that there are too many other spoiled children like you out there who think that they are justified in behaving like jerks just because the game lets them.

I'd be far more apt to actually sit and do a rotation other than auto attacking if I knew it'd be done in 5 minutes, but knowing I'll have to sit for there 10 minutes because 15 out of the 17 DPS only pull 40-50k is just discouraging and sad.

Have you ever stopped to consider that the 15 out of the 17 DPS pulling the 40-50k are behaving just like you? You act as if you're better than them but you're every bit as bad. "Everyone sucks so I need to suck more." Nice attitude you have there...

I'd rather go make dinner or watch TV or something during boss fights instead.

How about you do the other players a favor and go make dinner or watch TV without queueing and making them carry you through the fights instead?

[ContentsMayVary]

I'd be far more apt to actually sit and do a rotation other than auto attacking if I knew it'd be done in 5 minutes, but knowing I'll have to sit for there 10 minutes because 15 out of the 17 DPS only pull 40-50k is just discouraging and sad. I'd rather go make dinner or watch TV or something during boss fights instead.

Perhaps the other 15 are, just like you, making dinner or watching TV? I guess you're one of those people who sucks, but still complains about other people sucking.

[PaladinBash]

It's just a vicious cycle at the end of the day. Even in my PVP gear I can outdps all the LFR babbies because they're all either AFK, ungeared, terrible or a combination of the three. If I can just AFK or auto-attack or just pop my CDs and go AFK a few minutes til they're up again, why shouldn't I? I have no reason not to. The fight takes a long time whatever I do. There is no incentive to do it because all I am doing is carrying people that are AFKing, probably because they also have no incentive to not AFK. Why should I have to be the one carrying them? Not through gear or ability but simply because I'm the only one who actually pushes buttons? It just makes me want to go AFK so I do. If the system discouraged it, I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't even want to do it because LFR would be fast and efficiently run.

[Raelbo]

getting banned? you actually have to break their terms of service and afking isnt part of that.

From their TOU page

...certain acts go beyond what is "fair" and are considered serious violations of these Terms of Use. Those acts include, but are not necessarily limited to, the following:

<snip>

(iii) Anything that Blizzard considers contrary to the "essence" of the Game.

Trying to argue that regularly joining LFR with an intent to not participate is simply part of the "essence" of the game would be disingenuous.

if they ban you they just lost a subscription. just like if they actually banned gold sellers accounts and people that botted this game would probably be around 5.5million in the population range.

And yet they regularly ban gold sellers and bots. They do this, because in the bigger picture, ignoring toxic behaviour from those players costs them more subscriptions in the long run.

And let's be honest here, if someone picked up a 3 hour account suspension (I am not advocating a perma-ban for afking in LFR - I believe that would be somewhat extreme and reserved only for those who keep doing it after multiple suspensions) and quit as a result, odds are their commitment to the game wasn't very strong to start out with...

- - - Updated - - -

Even in my PVP gear I can outdps all the LFR babbies

Fortunately the LFR babbies tend to be a small minority of LFR participants.

If I can just AFK or auto-attack or just pop my CDs and go AFK a few minutes til they're up again, why shouldn't I?

If you can do that, and still survive and do average dps for the group, sure, no problem. I would be interested to know what hypothetical boss this would apply to though....

all I am doing is carrying people that are AFKing, probably because they also have no incentive to not AFK.

I have never encountered this. And I have run a lot of LFR...

Carrying 2 or 3 AFKers is annoying. Trying to carry 20 of them is impossible. When I do LFR I try to focus on helping the other 20+ players who are trying to defeat the encounter, because, like me, their incentive is to have fun by defeating the boss.

Why should I have to be the one carrying them? Not through gear or ability but simply because I'm the only one who actually pushes buttons?

That is hyperbole. If you were the only one trying, the bosses would not go down. No one would get loot.

It just makes me want to go AFK so I do. If the system discouraged it, I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't even want to do it because LFR would be fast and efficiently run.

Keep lying to yourself. Reality is though that you are part of the problem. You want to believe you are god's gift to WoW. You couldn't be further from the truth.

[Weightlifter]

Not until Blizz stops forcing normal mode raiders to do LFR.

[Ronduwil]

If I can just AFK or auto-attack or just pop my CDs and go AFK a few minutes til they're up again, why shouldn't I?

Because five other players employing that line of thought (or lack thereof) cause the fight to drag on an extra few minutes, thereby creating the very problem you're whining about. Quit acting like a baby and pull your own weight. If you don't like LFR no one is making you queue for it.

There is no incentive to do it because all I am doing is carrying people that are AFKing, probably because they also have no incentive to not AFK. Why should I have to be the one carrying them?

So it's better to force them to carry you instead? Don't you have any self respect? Where's your sense of pride? I would be hanging my head in shame after fessing up to this crap. Kids these days...

[TheWindWalker]

Well that escalated quickly while I was asleep. My suggestion was simply preventing people from getting loot if they're repeatedly detected as being non-participants throughout entire boss fights and that apparently lead to a discussion of full game bans. Well, then.

Not until Blizz stops forcing normal mode raiders to do LFR.

You forgot *wink* and a vague trollish meme quote. Unless, you're seriously. Which, unfortunately, you likely are.

[Lbgr]

Considering most afkers are dps, and most queue times are 20min for dps, a 10 min ban would be pointless, wouldn't it?

[TheWindWalker]

Considering most afkers are dps, and most queue times are 20min for dps, a 10 min ban would be pointless, wouldn't it?

I don't think anyone suggested a 10 minute ban.