What If series ( Decide your leaders )

[Deleted]

glad I'm not the only one who thinks the warchief title should be removed. It just creates to much bullshit.

Which is funny, since you only think that because it was not an orc who was put as warchief. If it would have been Thrall, Saurfang, Eltrigg etc put as warchief, now you'd have been perfectly happy with there being a warchief.

[JudgePayne]

Which is funny, since you only think that because it was not an orc who was put as warchief. If it would have been Thrall, Saurfang, Eltrigg etc put as warchief, now you'd have been perfectly happy with there being a warchief.

I wrote a post about 7 months ago stating that the horde should be run via council if all of the factions are to progress.

How can one leader

1- redeem the orcs honor and sense of worth
2- Heal the wounds to the trolls that garrosh inflicted with his near genocide
3 - Help the tauren with overcoming the grimtotem, new leader and the devestation outside mulgore.
4 - help the blood elves negotiate peace with dalaran and aid in the rebuilding of silvermoon.
4- Goblins are fine
5 - Generally control the forsaken and make sure that the dark lady is kept in check because she seems like without someone in charge she could do serious damage.

Edit** found link to old post http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...-s-War-Council

[Verdugo]

Undercity: Sylvanas continues down a path that leads the Horde into a tight spot. She blights what remains of Kul Tiras which is being used as an Alliance shipping port, and generally pushes to control all the continent north of Dun Morogh. The Horde is finally forced to depose her. The battle culminates with the revelation that Sylvanas has found the darkness beneath Tirisfal Glades. She has been draining arcane and shadow energy from a portal that leads to a dead world long ago consumed by the Legion. There is only a husk floating in the twisting nether, gathering its energies. The rift remains from the War of the Ancients but was buried during the Sundering and exacerbated by the blight above. When she is defeated and lay dying, Sylvanas declares her fear of oblivion and attempts to drain the life from Tyrande. Sylvanas is then decapitated by Leonid Barthalomew who says "There was always another path. May you find in death the peace you never had in life and unlife." Leonid takes leadership of the Forsaken, ending the current crisis (though some in the Alliance like Jaina are unhappy). Barthalomew takes the Forsaken in a new direction towards redemption, though resistance remains. Forsaken get Paladins and "real" priests, and all the pain that comes from being undead and using the light. Eventually they accept their inability to procreate and that they will have to eventually leave the land to the living. They accept this extinction and it gives them new fervor to destroy the Scourge and the Legion that spawned it.

That one seriously sucks balls, we dont need more recolored humans.

[Trassk]

Which is funny, since you only think that because it was not an orc who was put as warchief. If it would have been Thrall, Saurfang, Eltrigg etc put as warchief, now you'd have been perfectly happy with there being a warchief.

whats that? You make the assumption you know what I think because your 'so well informed', yeah, keep telling yourself that sunshine.
Guys like yourself can't even validate your accusations without appearing condescending. I thought having Thrall or Saurfang (yes, both) as warchief would be good, but I agreed a council would have been just as good, a while ago if so cared to read back.

[Primaliron]

That one seriously sucks balls, we dont need more recolored humans.

Okay I was very drunk when I typed that (and I'm still a bit on the light headed side) but I don't see anything about recolored humans. The only one I mentioned was Jaina. In fact I killed the most human looking of the Forsaken (Sylvanas). The Forsaken would still be corpses, lots and lots of agonized corpses trying desperately to be better people up until they all die out. Like Elves in Tolkien but with lesions and bones protruding. Actually I think I was recalling Théoden "If this is to be our end, then I would have them make such an end as to be worthy of remembrance!" or something like that. Not sure what I was thinking with that portal stuff though. I should know better than to drink with my cousin when he's on leave.

[Velshin]

glad I'm not the only one who thinks the warchief title should be removed. It just creates to much bullshit.

Indeed I agree with you. Do you remember my old PM to you? about I wish there will be no more Warchief anymore and the era of Warchief will end with Garrosh...damn I wish it would been true but guess not.

The title Warchief is like a curse and bad karma whoever get it will be destined to have a grim fate. Here some examples,

Blackhand: betrayed by Orgrim Doomhammer.

Orgrim: getting stabbed from behind.

Thrall: Dodged the bullet because he resign his position to Garrosh because he had more important things to do.

Garrosh: an ultimate defeat by both the Horde and the Alliance.

[Verdugo]

The Forsaken would still be corpses, lots and lots of agonized corpses trying desperately to be better people up until they all die out.

And that is exactly the shit we dont need. Do you want another race that bends over and gets willingly fucked in the ass by light?

No, if anything they should go all the way, think themselves ascended.

But really, it gets fucking disgusting how everyone bends over when light is mentioned.

[Vhalerius]

I wrote a post about 7 months ago stating that the horde should be run via council if all of the factions are to progress.

How can one leader

1- redeem the orcs honor and sense of worth
2- Heal the wounds to the trolls that garrosh inflicted with his near genocide
3 - Help the tauren with overcoming the grimtotem, new leader and the devestation outside mulgore.
4 - help the blood elves negotiate peace with dalaran and aid in the rebuilding of silvermoon.
4- Goblins are fine
5 - Generally control the forsaken and make sure that the dark lady is kept in check because she seems like without someone in charge she could do serious damage.

Edit** found link to old post http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...-s-War-Council

The answer is simple.
Make Sylvanas Warchief.

[Trassk]

Indeed I agree with you. Do you remember my old PM to you? about I wish there will be no more Warchief anymore and the era of Warchief will end with Garrosh...damn I wish it would been true but guess not.

The title Warchief is like a curse and bad karma whoever get it will be destined to have a grim fate. Here some examples,

Blackhand: betrayed by Orgrim Doomhammer.

Orgrim: getting stabbed from behind.

Thrall: Dodged the bullet because he resign his position to Garrosh because he had more important things to do.

Garrosh: an ultimate defeat by both the Horde and the Alliance.

don't forget, every other orc who claimed the warchief title, such as rend and bladefist, all ended up dead.

Also, even if Thrall dodged the bullet, he still suffered in seeing friends die, and even needing to fight his own people years later.

Given how it doesn't seem to matter if your good or bad, the warchief mantle is a curse. So, don't expect a happy future for vol'jin.

[Deleted]

To be honest I still think Vol'jin fits as leader of the Horde.
A council for the Horde would not fit. You know why? Because you have characters like Sylvannas or Gallywix, who, if not controlled with an iron fist, could destroy the Horde.

whats that? You make the assumption you know what I think because your 'so well informed', yeah, keep telling yourself that sunshine.
Guys like yourself can't even validate your accusations without appearing condescending. I thought having Thrall or Saurfang (yes, both) as warchief would be good, but I agreed a council would have been just as good, a while ago if so cared to read back.

I admit, when searching through your post history, I did manage to find 1 post saying you would agree to a council... but I also found a bunch of others saying otherwise:

so you think its better to devalue the orcs, in favour of giving value back to the other races of the horde?

If they press on and make a non-orc warchief leader, I honestly will begin mulling over how it was better with Garrosh, because at least orcs weren't cast off this badly. And yeah, this comes after acknowledging how fucked up Garrosh's third reich campaign was.

Common sense would make it an orc, so anything else being retarded I'd go for the most ridiculous option and choose mekkatorque or a log.
Really, if they can't take the orcs or the horde seriously enough to honor the way it was created in making an orc warchief, then might as well choose something as ridiculous to go with it.

If its not Thrall, Saurfang, Eitrigg, Gorgonna or Rexxar, might as well choose something thats as far from rational sense as possible and get a laugh out of it.

yea... see, I think your underestimating how it will be for the orcs, if they are no longer considered the main body of the horde, and even the warchief is not one of them, I can guarantee you, this is going to polar opposite of that, they will be seen as the underdogs (like there were before when they were slaves), but without an outlet for someone to make them proud of there kind.

Note that in this one you never say anywhere that you'd prefer a council:

[Spoiler]You know if it is true, the thing that pisses me off is.. just how removed they made the horde from itself then. Its not just about Thrall, its about the orcs in general, and how in doing this, they force the orcs into the background.
Its bad enough seeing how Garrosh shit all over what I liked about the orcs, but now seeing them not even make an orc warchief after him, to make some cock eyed point, thats just story breaking.

If not Thrall, i would have been content with saurfang, eitrigg, eitriggs son, or even gorgonna. But.. this?

You know if it is true, the thing that pisses me off is.. just how removed they made the horde from itself then. Its not just about Thrall, its about the orcs in general, and how in doing this, they force the orcs into the background.
Its bad enough seeing how Garrosh shit all over what I liked about the orcs, but now seeing them not even make an orc warchief after him, to make some cock eyed point, thats just story breaking.

If not Thrall, i would have been content with saurfang, eitrigg, eitriggs son, or even gorgonna. But.. this?

I can hope for it to be a rumor, but its known that guy on scrolls of lore often has insight to wows lore before anyone else, so.. yeah..

it isn't just that, orcs have always been the horde since warcraft began. And trying to make some ironic twist in the story in saying 'all the horde needs to be represented now' is some pitiful attempt by blizzard to satisfy whiners. Humans are still the defacto alliance race, meaning the alliance is still governed by the race that formed it, so until the alliance humans are disbanded and crushed and another alliance race represents it, I don't be calling any troll warchief.

you know, it seems me, you and wldberry have that in common. I hoped Thrall to return as the hordes leader, but held myself in reserve thinking it likely wouldn't be. But I at least hoped, as an ideal of having a charadter to represent the orcs in a far better light, they would choose a character who does that, as you say, Saurfang would have been the best choice after Thrall to me, and it should have been him.
But no, blizzard had to go for the 'shock tactic CHARGE CAN BE GOOD bullshit and fuck over the story forever.

nice work blizzard. you want some butter for that butt rapping you have the orcs?

the sad part is, as a long time horde fan, that is almost looking the option now.

At least when you look at the alliance, it makes sense, its structures as you expect, humans are the defacto rulers of the alliance and the other races have there own story.

The horde, instead of orcs being the defacto rulers, we've got a troll, influencing the horde now, making the whole story into a convoluted mess.

I hope it comes back to bite the devs on the ass.

Now, I admit that I didn't bother to go to the beginning of time of your posts, I just skimmed for 20 min or so. I just find it funny that you change your opinion so easily when orcs are not in the prime focus regarding the Horde. I am not here to accuse you or something, but I want you to realize that you're turning into the same people whom you battled, the so called "whiners". You're fighting for something and complaining and hating on Vol'jin not because you hate Vol'jin himself, but because the story didn't go as YOU wanted. You are being subjective, and as I said before, you're not being subjective on past events, you don't know how orcs will be treated in story from now on, you're subjective on future events you don't know!

[Trassk]

wow snowraven, if I cared about what you were doing, I'd swear you were offended by something.

You seem to be desperate to win an argument, but I'll just say, I would have preferred an orc warchief again, be it thrall or saurfang, but in that not being so, a council would have been a far better choice.

This is kinda funny. Actually you cheered me up, thanks ^^

[Deleted]

wow snowraven, if I cared about what you were doing, I'd swear you were offended by something.

You seem to be desperate to win an argument, but I'll just say, I would have preferred an orc warchief again, be it thrall or saurfang, but in that not being so, a council would have been a far better choice.

This is kinda funny. Actually you cheered me up, thanks ^^

No, don't worry, I don't get offended easily.

May I ask though, as a curiosity, if, let's say Cairne (putting him since he has experience, his son doesn't really) would not have died and he'd have been chosen warchief and the capital of the Horde would have moved to Thunder Bluff, as in, Cairne wouldn't have sat in Warsong Hold, would you have been ok with it? So are you upset solely because a non-orc is warchief or because a non-orc is warchief and sits in Orgrimmar too while he hasn't done much besides unite the rebellion?

Also I'm glad I cheered you up.

[Trassk]

read my above post for your answer.

if they decided they didn't want another orc warcraft, and wanted change, then they should have made a council, because it creates a far greater balance of character within the horde then having anyone else, even another orc.

[Vhalerius]

read my above post for your answer.

if they decided they didn't want another orc warcraft, and wanted change, then they should have made a council, because it creates a far greater balance of character within the horde then having anyone else, even another orc.

I'd want a council for the Alliance.
The Horde are clearly more militaristic, more prone to following the alpha of the pack, so to speak, so a Warchief suits that savagery rather nicely, less politics, more action.
The Alliance are a bunch of dickwads who'd rather sit around a table than kill shit, so having a council of douchebags to sit and discuss how to, over the course of the next 10 years, most accurately present their rampant douchebaggery suits them to a tea.
Meanwhile Varian's doing his hair and trying to decide which of his many split personalities he'll be today.

[Trassk]

I'd want a council for the Alliance.
The Horde are clearly more militaristic, more prone to following the alpha of the pack, so to speak, so a Warchief suits that savagery rather nicely, less politics, more action.
The Alliance are a bunch of dickwads who'd rather sit around a table than kill shit, so having a council of douchebags to sit and discuss how to, over the course of the next 10 years, most accurately present their rampant douchebaggery suits them to a tea.
Meanwhile Varian's doing his hair and trying to decide which of his many split personalities he'll be today.

clearly the message was lost on you at having this kind of mentality for the horde and why it created such problems.
The message blizzard was hammering at us thoughout mists is how the horde is family and everyones equal, meaning it shouldn't be represented by 1 person.
I'm all for that, and it would back this message they were forcing on us so much more with a council.. until it became obvious all this was so kosak could have his now fav character vol'jin in power.

Horde also isn't militaristic as much as it is working to survive. And the horde has never been more so then when it works together. look what happened then Garrosh's militaristic forced method happened, it lead to his downfall and the death of countless orcs, so in the end what the horde really is about is survival, not militant ideology.

[Vhalerius]

clearly the message was lost on you at having this kind of mentality for the horde and why it created such problems.
The message blizzard was hammering at us thoughout mists is how the horde is family and everyones equal, meaning it shouldn't be represented by 1 person.
I'm all for that, and it would back this message they were forcing on us so much more with a council.. until it became obvious all this was so kosak could have his now fav character vol'jin in power.

Horde also isn't militaristic as much as it is working to survive. And the horde has never been more so then when it works together. look what happened then Garrosh's militaristic forced method happened, it lead to his downfall and the death of countless orcs, so in the end what the horde really is about is survival, not militant ideology.

PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFPFPFPFP
Stopped reading there.
Orcish supremacy inbound.

The message wasn't lost on me, by the way, this kind of mentality's great.
The problems stemmed not from the mentality, but that the majority of the Horde pussied out at the last second instead of having Based Garrosh's back as he crammed it up the cowardly Alliance's collective booty holes.

[Vhalerius]

The horde didn't puss out, they were being slaughtered en masse by the Alliance juggernaut they could not defeat no matter how hard they tried and the other races got sick and tired of it. That is why Garrosh nuked Theramore, why he sought out weaponising the Sha and taking the heart of an old god. He couldn't win in a direct fight, he couldn't even win when the Alliance was stretched thin dealing with the Cataclysm. He and his Horde were not strong enough. The Alliance curb stomped them in every theatre and the rest of the Horde was tired of being cannon fodder for Garrosh's failed attempts at supremacy.

Yeah you damn right he nuked Theramore.
Would of nuked the rest of the world too and ushered in a reign of Orcish Master-race were it not for that blue douchebag Vol'jin.
If they were true of heart and right of mind enough to stay on the path of glory with Garrosh they'd have carved a path through anything in front of them, by god, can you imagine, a Green Azeroth?
Truly, the only thing more cowardly than an Alliance scoundrel is a traitorous Horde scoundrel.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Really no changes here, except for having the warchief replaced by Saurfang.

[JudgePayne]

Yeah you damn right he nuked Theramore.
Would of nuked the rest of the world too and ushered in a reign of Orcish Master-race were it not for that blue douchebag Vol'jin.
If they were true of heart and right of mind enough to stay on the path of glory with Garrosh they'd have carved a path through anything in front of them, by god, can you imagine, a Green Azeroth?
Truly, the only thing more cowardly than an Alliance scoundrel is a traitorous Horde scoundrel.

Lets get this straight, you are horde and i'm alliance. We have the larger army, the more advanced weapons, the more powerful leaders. You have your "honor" wait nope after theramore your honor is pretty much gone.

I think Varian said it right. "If your Horde fails to up hold honor, as Garrosh did. WE WILL END YOU"

[Combatbutler]

Lets get this straight, you are horde and i'm alliance. We have the larger army, the more advanced weapons, the more powerful leaders.

Arguably, for now this is true, but if the horde hadn't splintered the Alliance would be in serious trouble. It is basically a repeat of the second war, the horde collapsed because of infighting, with the difference that it is not disbanded this time. Otherwise the factions were pretty even.