Liberalism or Progressivism; Ideology of the US Democratic Party

[Nakura Chambers]

I was on IRC a while back and we were discussing gun rights. Someone said that "liberals" [sic] supported gun control. In response, someone else said "please don't insult liberals like that, no real liberal supports gun control. You're thinking of progressives, they're completely different."

Generally I hear the opposite; "progressives" denying that they are "liberals." How is one considered an insult, but the other isn't? For those of you who identify with either term, what would you say the difference is (if any)? And why do you prefer the term that you do?


Note: Yes, I am fully aware that the term "liberal" originally referred to classical liberalism, but since many in the Democratic party have hijacked that term and have tried changing it's definition. The guy who said that though is indeed a Democrat and fairly left-wing, though still a strong supporter of civil liberties and the NRA.

[Deleted]

Nobody that wants to take away the rights of others can call themself a true Liberal.

[Kalis]

The opposite of 'progressive' is 'regressive', and who the fuck would want to be regressive? What is wrong with those people that wouldn't want to be progressive?

[Nakura Chambers]

Nobody that wants to take away the rights of others can call themself a true Liberal.

I agree with you and I think that's what the man on IRC was getting at. This raises other questions though, for instance, could someone who fully supports civil liberties and respects the civic rights of others, but believes in a state-based economy still be considered a liberal? At what point does government intervention in the economy negate being a liberal (since almost everyone supports at least some government involvement)?

[v2prwsmb45yhuq3wj23vpjk]

I don't really care to call myself anything because it'll be inaccurate to somebody.

[Famine]

The opposite of 'progressive' is 'regressive', and who the fuck would want to be regressive? What is wrong with those people that wouldn't want to be progressive?

Because its progression towards something which, by definition, requires you to move away from something else. So 'progressing' in the 'wrong' direction is what people dislike.

[Milchshake]

Maybe find an IRC for creating a better poll. This one is terrible, its confusing, the terms are dubious and murky.

[Shadowmelded]

From my experience Liberal is used as a pejorative more often than not. The only times I use Liberal to refer to my political leanings is if I'm talking to Americans and it's mostly out of laziness. Liberal carries the connotation of loose (eg regarding morality or spending as some people like to insinuate) which is why I tend to steer clear of it.

[Masark]

Maybe find an IRC for creating a better poll. This one is terrible, its confusing, the terms are dubious and murky.

Haven't you seen a Nakura Chambers poll before?

[Kalis]

Because its progression towards something which, by definition, requires you to move away from something else. So 'progressing' in the 'wrong' direction is what people dislike.

If you stay still, then you will get overtaken by others that are willing to progress...such has always been the fate of man.

- - - Updated - - -

Haven't you seen a Nakura Chambers poll before?

At least in his/her/it's posts he/she/it no longer brown noses Nigel Farage at every opportunity, which is a step in the right direction.

[Bendog423]

President Reagan would be a liberal/progressive by today's measure.

[Mercadi]

If you stay still, then you will get overtaken by others that are willing to progress...such has always been the fate of man.

Standing still is an illusion. Everything in the universe is moving towards and away from something, people included.
Hence, attempting to say that someone is more "progressive" compared to another, lacks any sense.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I am a regressive Republiograt.

[Kalis]

Standing still is an illusion. Everything in the universe is moving towards and away from something, people included.
Hence, attempting to say that someone is more "progressive" compared to another, lacks any sense.

That would depend on what lies outside of the universe - if there is an outside.

If nothing lies outside, then the universe is moving towards nothing, and not something, as something can't be nothing, or it would be something.

[Masark]

Remember the time when liberal meant liberalist? Yeah me neither.

I have never seen the word "liberalist".

[Kellhound]

President Reagan would be a liberal/progressive by today's measure.

Teddy was a Progressive, best Republican President ever.

[mvaliz]

Note: Yes, I am fully aware that the term "liberal" originally referred to classical liberalism, but since many in the Democratic party have hijacked that term and have tried changing it's definition. The guy who said that though is indeed a Democrat and fairly left-wing, though still a strong supporter of civil liberties and the NRA.

Jeebus H... what's wrong with deluded people this week!?

Democrats hijacked the term!?! Bullspit! Man, it's one insanity claim after another this week...

It was the label thrown on ANYBODY by the Republicans who didn't walk exactly in their damn-near goose-stepping footprints. Back then they were Democrats and Republicans - but the fearmongers didn't like that, so began labeling "Liberals" as if it's a bad thing to be feared and hated...

Who do you think is coining/promoting the term "Liberal Media" as if it's a negative thing!? You don't hear Liberals calling their stuff "Liberal Media". The closest thing they call the opposition is Fixed/Faux News - and that's usually in reference to just FOX news.

If anything, I'd say the situation is 100% the other way around. By definition the Conservatives do not conserve jack squat. Christ, even Ron Paul acknowledges that! :P

[Endus]

The US Democratic Party isn't really either, except as relative to the Republican Party. Both parties in the US are conservative, the Democrats are just moderate conservatives, while the Republicans are more right-wing than the Democrats.

For instance, the Conservative Party of Canada is pretty in-line with most Democratic policies, broadly speaking, and they're our right-wing party; everyone else in the fight is more left-wing.

Loosely speaking, the left/right spectrum is divided between a focus on protecting the rights and safety of the people, which is what left-wing politics is focused on, and a focus on protecting the "money-makers", which is what right-wing politics is focused on.

This is why left-wing types don't necessarily always push for greater gun control; they're trying to balance the rights of the people to own firearms with the safety of the people from armed criminal types. There's no money in gun control for gun manufacturers, however, which is why the right-wing tends to be unanimously against gun control.

Plus, this all gets mixed up with things like "fiscal conservativism", which has nothing to do with being left- or right-wing, despite claims by some to the contrary.

[Masark]

Liberalism?

I know liberalism, but I have never seen the -ist suffix stuck on the end of "liberal".

[mvaliz]

I know liberalism, but I have never seen the -ist suffix stuck on the end of "liberal".

Nearly half of the labels the OP used I've never heard of in my life.

Is the Tea Party inventing their own language now or something?