Healing Problems !

[Spichora]

Hi guys ! I have been playing for monk MW for 2 month ! And now i started to do SoO riding ! Unfortunately I found that Im really behind in healing though my ilvl is 540 already! Im pulling around 45k healing while my fellow healers are doing 100k or even 80k ! its so disappointing! Ive read icy veins guide and Found that im not doing anything wrong ! But problem is that to do some AoE healing Monk needs time and then im not doing decent healing for Single target!
Only one thing that im not using during fight is Healing Sphere ! Please Guys help me give me some tips say how many you pulling and what tacts using ! Macros and etc!

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Msuqo/advanced

Edit: im Pulling around 37k Heal!

[Fairish]

Hi there.

The biggest advice I could give you is to hit a haste point. You are over on your first breakpoint and that actually hurts us a lot. In your gear, you want to be at 3145 or 6141 in STANCE OF THE FIERCE TIGER (I don't think you can hit the 3rd cap in your gear). If you're interested in the math:

healiocentric.wordpress.com/2013/07/18/mistweaver-minutiae-a-love-haste-relationship/

I see you're in a lot of timeless isle gear, it's not optimized the best for monks. Keep doing LFR and Flex to try and replace some of the mastery and spirit gear.

I'd also review the MW guide here, it's great, I silently stalk daily. Take a look at the suggestions for talents and glyphs, your choices are not optimal.

Part of our magic comes from knowing the encounters, and knowing when that damage is coming. Just keep practicing.

Hope this helps!

[Spichora]

Thanks a lot ! So you are saying that Spirit isnt important for monks? on icy veins i saw spirit as 1st important stat ! So my haste should be 6141 on tiger stance and that should fix most of my problems ? Talents and Glyps what you advice?

[Geodew]

Hi guys ! I have been playing for monk MW for 2 month ! And now i started to do SoO riding ! Unfortunately I found that Im really behind in healing though my ilvl is 540 already! Im pulling around 45k healing while my fellow healers are doing 100k or even 80k ! its so disappointing! Ive read icy veins guide and Found that im not doing anything wrong ! But problem is that to do some AoE healing Monk needs time and then im not doing decent healing for Single target!
Only one thing that im not using during fight is Healing Sphere ! Please Guys help me give me some tips say how many you pulling and what tacts using ! Macros and etc!

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Msuqo/advanced

Edit: im Pulling around 37k Heal!

Holy crap that's a lot of Timeless Coins spent. D:

Post some logs (worldoflogs.com) if you want help on your rotation. Healing Sphere is very useful in certain situations (although clunky to use) but your HPS should not suffer so greatly from ignoring it. Something else is wrong. And we can't tell which without an extensive interview (which is a silly, overly-lengthy use of time) or looking at your logs.

[Tatuin]

Thanks a lot ! So you are saying that Spirit isnt important for monks? on icy veins i saw spirit as 1st important stat ! So my haste should be 6141 on tiger stance and that should fix most of my problems ? Talents and Glyps what you advice?

Spirit is bad for monks. Most monks run with 8kish spirit and some like me try to get it as low as possible. Crit is alot better mana regen stat then spirit. I strongly would say you read the guide here on mmo.

[Vesoha]

Fairish says most of it in his post so not gonna repeat that. But looking at your armory you should get Jade Spirit Enchant on your weapon it's better than windsong, get stats on your chest, spirit is not horrible but 80int and 80spirit is better considering how much spirit you have already, and get enchants on all your missing stuff aswell, especially get the extra socket for your belt and the leg enchant (this is the first thing you should get after weapon enchant). All these enchants might seem minor in th grand scheme but it all adds up. And if this really is a passion project and you want to be the best, start working on the legendary quest, not for the cloak alone just as much to get that sweet meta gem.

But all of this is pure gear talk, and you improve through doing like Fairish points out, that and knowing your skills and how they work, especially the synergy between having a chi "pool" and a mana pool and maximizing the healing and keeping mana up by balancing the use of those two.

[Geodew]

Thanks a lot ! So you are saying that Spirit isnt important for monks? on icy veins i saw spirit as 1st important stat ! So my haste should be 6141 on tiger stance and that should fix most of my problems ? Talents and Glyps what you advice?

You will find Spirit more useful to a point, like 12-13k tops which you are already at, because you do not yet have the Legendary Meta Gem (which is worth at least 6000 Spirit). That is hurting you a bit since geared MWers can put that Spirit into a throughput stat like crit or int.

- - - Updated - - -

Crit is alot better mana regen stat then spirit.

Not sure if you meant this but it is not correct; it provides about 1/5 the mana regen of Spirit. Its advantage is that it does that while providing throughput competitive with intellect (when comparing 2 crit vs 1 int as you do with gemming.) Thus if you actually need the mana then you should indeed get some Spirit.

However if you have the Legendary Meta Gem and still OOM then you're probably playing the spec wrong. Chi Brew more for the tea and chi, make sure you're spending the chi you generate, spend mana tea and don't cap it (at 20), etc.

[Deleted]

Another thing to max your healing is learning the fights, know where the damage is incoming to maximise TfT/uplifts etc and knowing where breaks in damage is so you can guzzle manages (with the changes to manages + dropping the glpyh for something else its amazing if you time it all right). Just configure dBm for the right things if you feel overwhelmed. Found the forum post on monks and raid mechanics useful too to get the best out of the talents/glyphs. Hope this helps and gl.

[Deleted]

A bit off topic but, what about moving to 12k haste bp with a decent ilvl ?

Is it worth losing 3k crit to go to that breakpoint (With Legendary cloak/Thok/Naz Trinkets+4P procs). More ticks on ReM, More procs ?

Is it decent with keeping a ~30% crit in raid ?

PS: Something like this guy : Malliwane/Ysondre/Fesseroll guild. He's doing some descent logs on Council H

(Sorry i can't post links, not enough messages)

Thanks.

[Geodew]

A bit off topic but, what about moving to 12k haste bp with a decent ilvl ?

Is it worth losing 3k crit to go to that breakpoint (With Legendary cloak/Thok/Naz Trinkets+4P procs). More ticks on ReM, More procs ?

Is it decent with keeping a ~30% crit in raid ?

PS: Something like this guy : Malliwane/Ysondre/Fesseroll guild. He's doing some descent logs on Council H

(Sorry i can't post links, not enough messages)

Thanks.

No, you should only be jumping to 12k with very close to Heroic Best in Slot.

We currently believe the amount of crit it is appropriate to sacrifice to jump up a breakpoint is about 1600-1800. You should be overshooting a breakpoint by quite a lot before you jump. This is WITH 2T15 or 4T16 bonuses, so even more if you're lacking a tier bonus. The thing is that crit affects all heals (most importantly Uplift!) whereas haste only affects SCK, EnvM, ReM, and (barely) SooM.

Most geared MWers have around 40% crit.

No trinkets this tier gain proc rate from Haste. Only Lightning Imbued Chalice and Horridon's Last Gasp from ToT scale with Haste, and so long as you have the Legendary Meta Gem that's nothing to go crazy over.

The healer legendary cloak does not proc more with Haste either.

Edit: Source for whether or not RPPM things scale with Haste: http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/...-Posts-TCG-Art

Edit2: Keep in mind you can perform well while having suboptimal gear just by being a good player, which is much more important to your performance. So good logs doesn't mean the gear is right :P

[Spichora]

Not sure if you meant this but it is not correct; it provides about 1/5 the mana regen of Spirit. Its advantage is that it does that while providing throughput competitive with intellect (when comparing 2 crit vs 1 int as you do with gemming.) Thus if you actually need the mana then you should indeed get some Spirit.

I think he means that it gives 2 mana tea instead of one when critted ?

[Tatuin]

I think he means that it gives 2 mana tea instead of one when critted ?

No more like you have an equali chance to get a manatea as your crit is. so if you have 40% crit you have a 40% chance to get a manatea when you used enough chi to get 1

[Geodew]

I think he means that it gives 2 mana tea instead of one when critted?

Yeah, what else would he be talking about? Not quite how it works though, the mana tea "crit" is a separate roll from your heal critting, but it's the same overall. I'm saying that the extra stacks of Mana Tea you get gives you about one fifth the mp5 of an equal amount of Spirit.

[Spichora]

I will put Video of my Raiding and you will be able to detect my mistakes ! Ill put it tomorrow

[Geodew]

I will put Video of my Raiding and you will be able to detect my mistakes ! Ill put it tomorrow

Logs are better (may be hard to tell what you're casting in a video because of so many instant casts) and take less time to look at.

[Lefeng]

1) Your reforges and gems are way off. As a general rule, MWs have almost no need for spirit and mastery. Drop spirit and mastery until you get to 3145 haste in Tiger Stance, then dump it all into crit. At your gear level you might even be able to reach 6141 haste (again, Tiger Stance). (see #4 below)

2) Icy Veins is good for a beginner's guide, but MW healing is complex enough that the guide doesn't hit on some critical points. It states that spirit is your #1 secondary stat, which is true only until you reach a comfortable level. For us, that's roughly 7000 spirit. Some get by with as low as 5k, and I've seen others stack as much as 14k but I think that's grossly excessive. Other healing classes tend to cram as much spirit as possible, but with crit regen and Mana Tea you should have no trouble at all with mana management at between 7000 and 8000.

3) We can tell you nothing about your performance without a raid log. To give you the basics, always keep ReM on cooldown, and smack the boss as much as you can. We do our best healing in melee range, where our ranged heals can hit casters and we are still able to melee the moss for Eminence heals. You say you need time to build AoE healing, and I'm not sure why you think that. In a 10-man raid your ReM should be spreading to 5-6 people at all times so you can use Uplift often. Learn the bosses well enough that you can find the optimal times to use Thunder Focus Tea. Learn which bosses you need to change out glyphs and talents (Chi Burst or Chi Wave? Xuen or Chi Torpedo? While we're on the subject, RJW is a spinning pile of crap and no MW should use it) and when you use them for optimal throughput.

4) Learn to use AskMrRobot.com. Bring up your profile, and click "Edit Weights." Select 6141 haste breakpoint, and set your total effective spirit to 10000. With those settings you can get a comfortable amount of spirit, reach 6141 haste, and have nearly 28% crit.

5) Learn when you need to focus on raid healing and when you need to switch to single-target. During moments of low raid-wide damage, melee the boss and maintain Serpent's Zeal and Tiger Power. Keep ReM on cooldown. Always. No excuses. Use Expel Harm as needed, usually all the time. Uplift as needed to spend chi and build mana tea stacks. Keep Chi Wave on cooldown if you're using it. When anticipating high raid damage, use TFT to renew and spread your ReM's. When high raid damage comes use Uplift more often, Chi Burst, and Torpedo through the group when stacked.

Post a log and we can help further.

[Geodew]

3) We can tell you nothing about your performance without a raid log. To give you the basics, always keep ReM on cooldown, and smack the boss as much as you can. We do our best healing in melee range, where our ranged heals can hit casters and we are still able to melee the moss for Eminence heals.

To clarify, Eminence healing is decent for single-target if the injured people are within its small range (20yd from you, 20yd from your statue) but quite weak for AoE. For AoE you want to use Uplift as your chi dump. I believe he is suggesting that you try to stay in melee range so that when you find a good time to use Eminence that you don't waste any time getting to the boss.

[Astraios]

1) Your reforges and gems are way off. As a general rule, monks have almost no need for spirit and mastery. Drop spirit and mastery until you get to 3145 haste in Tiger Stance, then dump it all into crit. At your gear level you might even be able to reach 6141 haste (again, Tiger Stance). (see #4 below)

2) Icy Veins is good for a beginner's guide, but MW healing is complex enough that the guide doesn't hit on some critical points. It states that spirit is your #1 secondary stat, which is true only until you reach a comfortable level. For use, that's roughly 7000 spirit. Some get by with as low as 5k, and I've seen others stack as much as 14k but I think that's excessive. Other healing classes tend to cram as much spirit as possible, but with crit regen and Mana Tea you should have no trouble at all with mana management at between 7000 and 8000.

3) We can tell you nothing about your performance without a raid log. To give you the basics, always keep ReM on cooldown, and smack the boss as much as you can. We do our best healing in melee range, where our ranged heals can hit casters and we are still able to melee the moss for Eminence heals. You say you need time to build AoE healing, and I'm not sure why you think that. In a 10-man raid your ReM should be spreading to 5-6 people at all times so you can use Uplift often. Learn the bosses well enough that you can find the optimal times to use Thunder Focus Tea. Learn which bosses you need to change out glyphs and talents (Chi Burst or Chi Wave? Xuen or Chi Torpedo? While we're on the subject, RJW is a pile of spinning crap and no MW should use it) and when you use them for optimal throughput.

4) Learn to use AskMrRobot.com. Bring up your profile, and click "Edit Weights." Select 6141 haste breakpoint, and set your total effective spirit to 10000. With those settings you can get a comfortable amount of spirit, reach 6141 haste, and have nearly 28% crit.

5) Learn when you need to focus on raid healing and when you need to switch to single-target. During moments of low raid-wide damage, melee the boss and maintain Serpent's Zeal and Tiger Power. Keep ReM on cooldown. Always. No excuses. Use Expel Harm as needed, usually all the time. Uplift as needed to spend chi and build mana tea stacks. Keep Chi Wave on cooldown if you're using it. When anticipating high raid damage, use TFT to renew and spread your ReM's. When high raid damage comes use Uplift more often, Chi Burst, and Torpedo through the group when stacked.

Post a log and we can help further.

I've gotten better logs from RJW than chi torpedo, and theoretically it's a strong smart heal compared to just more blanket throughput, so while CT gives higher raw throughput (I'm pretty sure) the smart heal nature and the ability to have more constant ticking smart heals while healing burst with uplift makes us stronger at sniping heals in a very strong healing core. Aka RJW is a legitimate talent. All the t90 talents are viable if you know how to use them.

As for improving your heals specifically, we cannot really help without logs. Most general information is in the MW sticky, or in the last few pages.

[Lefeng]

I've gotten better logs from RJW than chi torpedo, and theoretically it's a strong smart heal compared to just more blanket throughput, so while CT gives higher raw throughput (I'm pretty sure) the smart heal nature and the ability to have more constant ticking smart heals while healing burst with uplift makes us stronger at sniping heals in a very strong healing core. Aka RJW is a legitimate talent. All the t90 talents are viable if you know how to use them.

As for improving your heals specifically, we cannot really help without logs. Most general information is in the MW sticky, or in the last few pages.

From what I understand (using Reglitch's math @ http://bestmonk.eu/?p=245) RJW is only effective under specific circumstances (stacked raid, very high spirit) since under normal placement conditions is delivers less healing at a higher mana cost than SCK. I know there are some world ranked MWs out there that use it for a few bosses but for us regular folks out there I don't feel like it's worth reforging to a lower haste plateau for a few bosses just to get enough spirit to make RJW sustainable.

[Geodew]

From what I understand (using Reglitch's math @ http://bestmonk.eu/?p=245) RJW is only effective under specific circumstances (stacked raid, very high spirit) since under normal placement conditions is delivers less healing at a higher mana cost than SCK. I know there are some world ranked MWs out there that use it for a few bosses but for us regular folks out there I don't feel like it's worth reforging to a lower haste plateau for a few bosses just to get enough spirit to make RJW sustainable.

Its mana cost is not higher. You spend less mana with a RJW aoe rotation than a SCK aoe rotation. You'd OOM even faster if you were trying to spam SCK for 6 minutes. A lot of the RJW talk is opinion. That's the issue. There's nothing very concrete.