Beginner level BGs

[Redecle]

Playing random bgs as an alt, fresh 90, pve-geared or just plain noob, it's completely absolutely frustrating when everyone else is full Tyrannical, almost near full Grieveous by now.

You won't be accepted to rbgs, or premades and arena is pretty much out of the question. Even with the new baseline resilience, especially with the new resi, without pvp power you don't really have any impact on anything, 1on1 situations with most classes are simply: beginner can propably do like 10% of the enemy hp damage in the time the max pvp geared player kills you. Warriors, hunters, mages, nearly global you, rogues kill you during one kidney shot, warlock burn you down without ever breaking their fear, so basicly your only tool is to hope fast random bgs and just queue over and over for hours again and jump around in your spawn, cause you ain't helping no one anyway.

PVE side now has all sort of training methods, they just got proving grounds. They've got scenarios, normal mode dungeons, heroic mode dungeons, lfr and then eventually they get into real raiding. The gearing process is highly laddered. Offering justice point, valor points as you gear up or even the "wellfare" epics for fast catchup.

While pvp players get stuck straight against the best german horde players in the world (who roam around in a 500 player group in a 20 player bg, killing you before you've resurrected, that's what it feels like) in most random bgs. Yeah i'm sure they are having a blast, while i'm getting ready to jump out the window. By now you've propably guessed, yes i'm alliance.
But it's not exclusive, it's always battlegroup dependant, i do have 2 low level horde toons in a different battlegroup and they suffer from the same experience, this time only against alliance.

So we get to the solution, beginner/entry level random bgs. Gear restricted bgs that have maximum pvp gear either ilvl or pvp power restriction or something in the lines. Place where you can compete with others who just got their alt/new toon into pvp and start to grind honor to gear up for normal randoms and beyond. Restricted that you would not be able to wear your shiny Grieveous/whatever gladiator gear inside, to lessen the gap, give change to gain some honor points without grinding 16 hour days to gain 1,5k-2k honor, loosing every single bg, cause you ain't geared to help anyone else in that bg, but when you reach a certain gap you can't enter them anymore and it's time to switch to randoms.

I wouldn't even mind having longer queues if my contribution inside the battleground would matter in anyway. Alts are in the improving quantity, for example myself playing 9 toons daily, now imagine gearing them all in both pve and pvp, gaining that 1,5k-2k honor takes at least 8-16 hours a day, then raiding takes about 6-12 hours per toon per week, excluding old content which adds another 2-12 hours per toon per week, plus dailies, plus mat grinding, plus other activities. Not making the game feel like working.. failed. Yeah no ones forcing to play and choice is yours, but some people do play and they want to get every single thing done 100%, there's just not enough time in the world (or more precisely in a week) to do it, it's just plain mathematic 1+1 doesnt' equal 3, right there. People playing one toon and complaining a week after a patch that there's not enough content, seriously..

Having a way to _begin_ grinding honor made more entertaining is barely not too much to ask. Anything is more fun than constantly sitting as corpse for 15-45 minutes in a graveyard.

[Skygoneblue]

I can definitely relate with your frustration man, but I think you're kind of suffering from that "if you give them an inch, they'll ask for a mile" syndrome. I'm not up on every little pvp change they've put in recently, but...

70% base resilience is still higher than it was in the last patch, and the patch before that
Crafted PVP gear from the AH is easy to get
In normal BGs, any gear above 496 is scaled down anyway

I don't mean to downplay your frustrations at all, but Blizzard has made it sooo much better than it has been in the past. Is it perfect? No, but you can't honestly expect to hit 90, do a few BGs, and be competitively geared against someone who has been capping Conquest points since they hit 90, can you? The developers have said numerous times that if the gear incentive is gone, there's basically no reason to continue PVPing, and they're right.

I'm in the Tyrannical honor grind right now, so I feel you. But, you gotta suck it up and do the shitty work, and it'll get better.

[Redecle]

My point wasn't the welfare epics for pvp, it was more in the line to make the pvp matter.

Being a crushable bug on every bg doesn't make the game fun in anyway. Yes the resilience changes in the last 2 patches were to help, but as we gain resilience the top geared players gained pvp power, and the situation is more or less the same, they oneshot-twoshot/global anything that moves, unless the opponent can actually oppose them.
I'm not actually expecting to be competitive against the soon full Grieveous geared as freshly dinged 90, i'm expecting to be matched against players in the similar situation and gear and skill level. As i said grinding 16 hour long days bg after bg without a single honor kill k/d-ratio after bgs looking like 0-34, where's the fun in that,
the gearing ain't gonna happen anytime soon to be competitive, so you'll be doing 2-3 months just that, that's where my interest just goes to zero, it ain't fun, it ain't game, it ain't anything except looking at a ghost figure in a graveyard day after day seven days a week.

I do know what the entire process is my main has full tyrannical, halfway grieveous by now, I did the grind, it just didn't make it any more fun now, the grind sucked, but now i can oppose the others in the same gear and pvp has a meaning, on alts they don't, their future is more sitting and waiting for those full geared to win some bgs, cause it doesn't do anything if i hit a opposite player or stand still, they are pretty much equal.

I left out the part from op that, it absolutely shouldn't award conquest points from the beginner bgs, even your honor point gain propably should be less than normal random bgs, just some to eventually gear for previous season gear, but it would provide you other, actual pvp content to play, instead of feeling like total waste of time, have fun, learn, while you gear.
You ain't learning a darn thing when a rogue kidney shots you, you may use pvp trinket or human racial, just to be stunned again and voila you're dead before the 1 or 2 combo point stun ends, all that in less than 3 seconds, but if you would face an opponent that doesn't have that much power or gear to kill you, it might take 10-20 seconds you might actually learn something and actually fight for your life.

Not attacking against you Skygoneblue, but that players play pvp for gear and that's why it shouldn't be removed from the equation, that's just a wrong reason to keep pvp around even from Blizzard, players play pvp in the form of Quake and other fps games where they gain no gear, yet they keep on playing, they play it cause of the pvp not cause some purple shinies.

[Mhyroth]

I have been playing this game 6 years now, mainly Pve orientated. I was an achievement completionist so I also got most of the Battleground achievements (Battlemaster completed), but since I got bored of Pve and seem to enjoy PvP a lot more now, I'd love to jump in the PvP train for Arena and Rbg's. My problem lies in experience; I have no 1 750 achievement for any bracket since all I ever did was play for fun with my brother for wins for him.
Now I want to start playing arena I can't seem to find people with the same mindset: who want to improve together, have fun, learn and just pvp. Even for getting my weekly cap it's hard nowadays, all they want is a 1500 or 1750 achievement else they don't want to qeue with you. I know I can easily get 1750 or maybe a little more, with practice it is, but I don't get the chance to practice/(Im)prove myself. As someone who has been playing this game for so long, I have quite some class knowledge, maybe not in the PvP part of the game, but that's where I want to go now.
I have been watching streams, video's and players from all over the world to learn as much as possible, and of course watch new released video's/streams since you can always improve.
I wonder , and ask for advice here, on how to find people with the same mindset who don't blame you for 1 failed CC or expect you to make no mistakes at all. Who like to improve as a team and don't want to feel obligated to get Rival, Glad in 1 season (which is impossible anyways -> correct me if I'm wrong).
I'm playing in the EU, so maybe it's a different mindset as the US players, but some US players could correct me if I'm wrong.
I know there is the LFPvPPlayers thread, but this one seems inactive and kinda hard to explain the story.

[Redlikemyrage]

I have been playing this game 6 years now, mainly Pve orientated. I was an achievement completionist so I also got most of the Battleground achievements (Battlemaster completed), but since I got bored of Pve and seem to enjoy PvP a lot more now, I'd love to jump in the PvP train for Arena and Rbg's. My problem lies in experience; I have no 1 750 achievement for any bracket since all I ever did was play for fun with my brother for wins for him.
Now I want to start playing arena I can't seem to find people with the same mindset: who want to improve together, have fun, learn and just pvp. Even for getting my weekly cap it's hard nowadays, all they want is a 1500 or 1750 achievement else they don't want to qeue with you. I know I can easily get 1750 or maybe a little more, with practice it is, but I don't get the chance to practice/(Im)prove myself. As someone who has been playing this game for so long, I have quite some class knowledge, maybe not in the PvP part of the game, but that's where I want to go now.
I have been watching streams, video's and players from all over the world to learn as much as possible, and of course watch new released video's/streams since you can always improve.
I wonder , and ask for advice here, on how to find people with the same mindset who don't blame you for 1 failed CC or expect you to make no mistakes at all. Who like to improve as a team and don't want to feel obligated to get Rival, Glad in 1 season (which is impossible anyways -> correct me if I'm wrong).
I'm playing in the EU, so maybe it's a different mindset as the US players, but some US players could correct me if I'm wrong.
I know there is the LFPvPPlayers thread, but this one seems inactive and kinda hard to explain the story.

I've always stayed within my guild for pvp partners. Not that there are a bunch of members to pull from (I think we have a grand total of 15 actual players) but I found it much easier to communicate goals and work towards something with a player or two who is already used to doing that with me.

I'd say stay away from trying to get a partner from trade, and instead look for a guildie or friend to pvp with. The pvp community is full of trashy, volatile players as a standard, so the more you know the people you arena with the better off you will be.

Edit: This is as a US player, btw.

[gestapo]

Playing random bgs as an alt, fresh 90, pve-geared or just plain noob, it's completely absolutely frustrating when everyone else is full Tyrannical, almost near full Grieveous by now.

You won't be accepted to rbgs, or premades and arena is pretty much out of the question. Even with the new baseline resilience, especially with the new resi, without pvp power you don't really have any impact on anything, 1on1 situations with most classes are simply: beginner can propably do like 10% of the enemy hp damage in the time the max pvp geared player kills you. Warriors, hunters, mages, nearly global you, rogues kill you during one kidney shot, warlock burn you down without ever breaking their fear, so basicly your only tool is to hope fast random bgs and just queue over and over for hours again and jump around in your spawn, cause you ain't helping no one anyway.

PVE side now has all sort of training methods, they just got proving grounds. They've got scenarios, normal mode dungeons, heroic mode dungeons, lfr and then eventually they get into real raiding. The gearing process is highly laddered. Offering justice point, valor points as you gear up or even the "wellfare" epics for fast catchup.

While pvp players get stuck straight against the best german horde players in the world (who roam around in a 500 player group in a 20 player bg, killing you before you've resurrected, that's what it feels like) in most random bgs. Yeah i'm sure they are having a blast, while i'm getting ready to jump out the window. By now you've propably guessed, yes i'm alliance.
But it's not exclusive, it's always battlegroup dependant, i do have 2 low level horde toons in a different battlegroup and they suffer from the same experience, this time only against alliance.

So we get to the solution, beginner/entry level random bgs. Gear restricted bgs that have maximum pvp gear either ilvl or pvp power restriction or something in the lines. Place where you can compete with others who just got their alt/new toon into pvp and start to grind honor to gear up for normal randoms and beyond. Restricted that you would not be able to wear your shiny Grieveous/whatever gladiator gear inside, to lessen the gap, give change to gain some honor points without grinding 16 hour days to gain 1,5k-2k honor, loosing every single bg, cause you ain't geared to help anyone else in that bg, but when you reach a certain gap you can't enter them anymore and it's time to switch to randoms.

I wouldn't even mind having longer queues if my contribution inside the battleground would matter in anyway. Alts are in the improving quantity, for example myself playing 9 toons daily, now imagine gearing them all in both pve and pvp, gaining that 1,5k-2k honor takes at least 8-16 hours a day, then raiding takes about 6-12 hours per toon per week, excluding old content which adds another 2-12 hours per toon per week, plus dailies, plus mat grinding, plus other activities. Not making the game feel like working.. failed. Yeah no ones forcing to play and choice is yours, but some people do play and they want to get every single thing done 100%, there's just not enough time in the world (or more precisely in a week) to do it, it's just plain mathematic 1+1 doesnt' equal 3, right there. People playing one toon and complaining a week after a patch that there's not enough content, seriously..

Having a way to _begin_ grinding honor made more entertaining is barely not too much to ask. Anything is more fun than constantly sitting as corpse for 15-45 minutes in a graveyard.

I wholeheartedly agree with you, OP, on the frustration of getting a fresh 90 into a battleground and dealing with fully geared people. However, you're meant to actually have time spent earning that gear. Splitting BG's into two would increase queue times so that wouldn't work.

The only thing they could do is have some sort of a PVP equivalent Proving Grounds system so that people who don't have pvp experience can learn the ropes before going into a BG. Sounds a bit trickier to implement as PVE is more straightforward.

Furthermore, the gear progression is such that you have to go through the 'school of hard knocks' if you will via random bg's before you're geared. Gear progression and logic dictates that you start capping arena as well, and surely you will be gear ready for some serious Arena and/or Rated BG's.

While you as an individual maybe ok with longer queue times, i'm guessing almost no one else will be. The current system with the introduction of base resilience is pretty much the easiest it's ever been to get a toon pvp geared. Honor is quick and easier than ever. Capping conquest points in arena isn't that hard at a low MMR.

Besides adding the aforementioned proving ground like system for people who have never pvp'd before, i don't think anything else will or should change.

[Coldhearth]

Playing random bgs as an alt, fresh 90, pve-geared or just plain noob, it's completely absolutely frustrating when everyone else is full Tyrannical, almost near full Grieveous by now.

Nobody is "near full" grievous right now. Maybe 3 pieces at best. When you make stupid statements like this, it's hard to take you seriously. The season is barely a few weeks old.

And you could grind your tyrannical (now purchasable with honor) in a few days max. Baseline resilience was added to help ease the pain in the meantime.

Being a fresh alt in pvp has always sucked.

This is how pvp in WoW has been since the dawn of time.

[Salystra]

Your argument is that PvE has avenues to better yourself, you know that WoW was a PvE game first and a PvP second (in fact was only added in TBC as I recall)

I main a mage and I feel the pain more than some other classes when gearing for PvP as literally it is rofflestomp the moment I step into a BG and is the main reason I don't do PvP, I have no real lock down time due to getting pretty much killed in 3seconds flat despite using my tools.

That being said the things you suggest will be 100% open to abuse by anyone and everything, hell you still have lvl 90s thinking its fun to kill level 10s in goldshire.

If you prefer why not just grind heroics and get JPs to convert to honor to then get the gear to save yourself that fraustration? Its not 1for1 but at least then you can break up the grind a bit more.

[PPN]

I have 4 chars for pvp, just lately dinged my SP in late 5.3. In the start as fresh 90 it sucks, but tbh it was never so easy to catch up as it is now.

Here my advices:

1. Get some crafted gear for pvp and some ilvl 496 stuff from the new island
2. Do the Thunder Island pvp dailies and 1 bg win the day for honor and buy pieces you need most or set items
3. When you have enough tokens for extra roll you do celestials and hope for pvp gear (also do Ordos, maybe Oondasta if you find the ppl, dont roll on these tho!)
4. Do this every day until tuesday next reset since u dinged 90 (many ppl try desperatly cap on tuesday before reset ..noobs+undergeared ppl around your mmr that are so easy to kill)
5. By that time you will have reasonable gear for arena (at least stat-hp wise to look like some1)
6. Hope you are a class that is not facerolled and targeted down by every comp (like SP,Fire Mage,Ele,boomkin)
7. Cap your weekly arena (forget about rbgs, its only frustrating no1 takes you and also rbg cap sucks anyway, just delete that option from your head and be happy)
8. Do this over 1-2 weeks more. And you have 3-4 grievious and full tyrannical.

--> Thr trick is not to want all at once, just take it easy and you will be quickly where you want without a lot of frustration

And again, in 2s for capping it just depends a lot on your class. As a healer you can easily find a geared dps and win games without much effort.
If you are one of the classes mentioned above it can be rly frustrating

GL

[worsthitmanNa]

Your argument is that PvE has avenues to better yourself, you know that WoW was a PvE game first and a PvP second (in fact was only added in TBC as I recall)

I main a mage and I feel the pain more than some other classes when gearing for PvP as literally it is rofflestomp the moment I step into a BG and is the main reason I don't do PvP, I have no real lock down time due to getting pretty much killed in 3seconds flat despite using my tools.

That being said the things you suggest will be 100% open to abuse by anyone and everything, hell you still have lvl 90s thinking its fun to kill level 10s in goldshire.

If you prefer why not just grind heroics and get JPs to convert to honor to then get the gear to save yourself that fraustration? Its not 1for1 but at least then you can break up the grind a bit more.

You are the best class at avoiding damage. You also have a stupid amount of cc. Just stand in the back and spam poly. You are one of the more useful classes under geared because your cc is just dumb.

[Bsod]

-kill the 3 mobs which give each ~300 honor (they respawn after an hour).
-get some crafted pvp gear.
-get the weapon first.
-do arena even undergeared.

[Deleted]

good way to gear pvp is to run dungeos and convert justice into honor.

Takes a fraction of the time.

[ItachiZaku]

good way to gear pvp is to run dungeos and convert justice into honor.

Takes a fraction of the time.

500 JP for 250 honor.

If you get these crazy train dungeon chainers, it's very easy. If you get 25 minute queues... less optimal, but still faster than actually PVPing.

[Deleted]

OP I doubt anything will ever be done about gear grind, looks like its more of a necessary evil for the rpg part of the game that blizz wants to keep. Anyways, try doing arenas at least in half tyranical, I got 100% win rate on the first week

[Twoflower]

Your argument is that PvE has avenues to better yourself, you know that WoW was a PvE game first and a PvP second (in fact was only added in TBC as I recall)

There were BG's in classic, remember the day long AV figths ?

Playing random bgs as an alt, fresh 90, pve-geared or just plain noob, it's completely absolutely frustrating when everyone else is full Tyrannical, almost near full Grieveous by now.

You won't be accepted to rbgs, or premades and arena is pretty much out of the question.

Yes, people are geared out by now, it's the end of a expansion, everybody had like a year to gear up. What do you expect ?

And yes, people who are serious about pvp will not carry you trough arena for months. They are serious about it, they want to win. Again what do you expect ?



But I like the idea of entry lvl pvp. But it must be highly automated, checking your gear and your pvp experience and how many games you played lately etc. Also your performance. If people get to choose themselfs where they want to play, it will be soooooo open to abuse.

[Deleted]

What a load of... Never has PvP been so forgiving. I have been playing on a newly dinged hunter and I was baffled by how little PvP geared players could do against a fully green geared player. Besides, you can easily obtain a full epic PvP set in a matter of days. Tol Barad gives 500 honor per win, Wintergrasp gives 350+ with quests, PvP rare mobs in KW give 825 per 3. A friend of mine spend one day in KW while queue'ing up for TB/Random BG's and got about 10 epic items.

[Cirayne24]

There were BG's in classic, remember the day long AV figths ?

Yes, but AV was always a PvE BG with PvP added into it. Take long enough and you could get wolf riders and summon your boss. AV just seemed like farming players instead of mobs... and the stalemates at the bridge wasn't really that fun after 3 hours.


OP - It's the last season on this expac. You have people that have been playing the same character for 2 seasons now, let alone the catch up system they added. I was able to fully gear 3 alts due to that. It's never fun starting off, but if you really wanted to you can get full Tyrannical in about 2-4 days.

- Isle of Thunder PvP quests
- NPCs at Dominance Point or Lion's Landing (change servers to maximize honor)
- Wintergrasp (every 2.5 hours + weekly quests; ensure you destroy all towers when possible.)
- Tol Barad (every 2.5 hours + weekly quests; ensure you destroy all towers when possible)
- If Alliance, feel the joy of AV and Isle weekends
- Download oQueue and join CTA groups (Although you may need more gear before accepted)
- Get a tank/healer or both and run chain heroics (500 JP = 250 Honor)
- Grizzly Hills Dailies (~200 Honor)
- Kill Celestials and Nalak each week.

[Ealyssa]

they oneshot-twoshot/global anything that moves, unless the opponent can actually oppose them.

This is total BS. While you may still sometimes be the victim of massive burst. The period of super geared player one shotting everyon is DONE.
You take just as much damage from a fully PVP geared play with PVE green or full PVP gear (bare the 2p tinket bonus and resil gems).

The gear you wear don't influence damage taken anymore (again except 2p bonus and resi gems nearly nobody sockets). The only difference is damage done. With a ~500 ilvl PVE geared you'll do 60% damage of a PVP char.

So outside of being in full quest green with 350k HP, no you are no walking victim, but yes you'll have more difficulty to kill someone by yourself. Hint : focus on helping your team instead of pure carnage. Your heal still heal, you buff still buff and your CC still CC

[Lady Tygry]

While the idea of a BG revolving around a gear cutoff isn't bad, it doesn't address the real issue that so many players just don't know their own classes, let alone do they have a basic understanding of other classes (which helps performance in PvP immensely). PvPing while undergeared is now one of the best times to learn PvP. With all that resilience coming in for free, players have to get out of that PvE mindset of tunneling damage and learn the niches of their roles if they want to be effective. Good players will still beat bad players if they play smartly and that doesn't always mean winning the damage duel.

I used a rogue's sap/cap and general ability to use control to bide time as an example last time a topic like this came up. Since someone mentioned a frost mage (something I've spent a fair amount of time on and something that I don't consider to be very gear-dependent), I'll use that as an example. Aside from a rogue, there aren't a lot of classes that should be spending too much time cruising around alone in the middle of the BG. Pet classes, however, are the best node defenders simply because they aren't vulnerable to the sap/cap (the classes-- didn't say players still don't f this up in a variety of ways). Frost mages are great at this role (though in rated content, they're better off with offense, when comp allows) because like rogues, they're also good at biding time owing to how slippery they can be. Anyone who is going to play defense (or assault solo) needs to be good at 1v1 (and even 2v1 in some cases) because help may not always arrive but when the gear isn't there, a lot of players still make the mistake of playing as though it is. Let's say a DK decides to try his luck at my node. I'm not in great gear so I have little interest in trying to go toe-to-toe with him. Instead, I'll call for help as I see him rolling in and try to account for all the stealthies in BGTargets (seriously, get this addon if you don't use it already) so I have an idea of whether he's truly alone. Maybe I invis so he can't open on me or maybe I just ride a bit off so he's tempted to try and start capping. If he comes after me, I'll draw the fight out as long as possible, kiting and letting him sit in snares, silencing DG so he has to work on catching me, AT when he does finally connect, polys and RoFs whenever DR allows, etc. I don't have to kill him; I just have to keep him from the assault for as long as possible. If he's foolish enough to start capping without engaging me, I'll put my pet on him and sit out of range. Stop the fight from actually starting for as long as possible. If I were to just engage someone who vastly outgears me (or who just outplays me) with the 'make it dead' mindset, I wouldn't last nearly as long. I'd last a while because mages are still slippery but not as long as if I'd just tried to wait it out and focus on the objective. That doesn't even factor in help arriving, body rezzing (it's so easy to stop a cap simply by running back when players choose NOT to control you until the assault is done).

I agree that starting at 90 for the first time is difficult but it has little to do with gear disparity so much as button bloat. I'm about to run into this with my monk because I'm 87 and I've leveled exclusively as BrM; I'll be switching to MW for PvP. I'll be clueless for a while but I do have a TI set already in my bags so I can have a starter set. Players with PvP as a goal are already visiting battlegrounds as they level, at least every few brackets, just as they are reading over their new abilities and recognizing, 'Hey, this is a must in PvE but it's definitely got its uses for PvP!', e.g., BrM have a mandatory use of their keg because it causes a large amount of threat. In PvP, it's used to troll/slow mass groups in the early brackets and becomes less useful as more classes gain their gap closers.

With all of this in mind, I don't feel PG does a very good job in actually teaching new roles. It's great for experienced players who are looking to tweak but it's still very artificial because you gem/enchant in way that's specifically for PG to counter the poor decision in scaling the gear rather than the content. Maybe this has been corrected since I last looked but this was the case the last time I tried. So I don't really feel Blizz has a good resource in its PvE teaching tool. The closest we have with PvP is leveling BGs. They're not balanced but everyone's almost always learning a new class. Perhaps a reroll is in order? You don't necessarily have to cap but the lower end play may help. Like PG, it's artificial though because you're lacking all of your abilities. I guess what it boils down to is that there aren't really any ideal learning tools in WoW for anything higher-end. One's better off turning to the internet and putting the advice they glean into practice-- or playing with someone who can offer constructive feedback.

tl;dr Overgearing is a crutch. While it's true that it makes PvP easier, I've seen undergeared players of every class do well without gear. The difference is they're focusing on what they bring to the table instead of raw damage and instead of going Leeroy into the middle of a scrum and then wondering why they were globaled. They use LoS and they use their CC. I realize that being undergeared AND new is a big concern but plenty of players have offered suggestions as to how to go about negating both sides of the struggle.

[gestapo]

tl;dr Overgearing is a crutch. While it's true that it makes PvP easier, I've seen undergeared players of every class do well without gear. The difference is they're focusing on what they bring to the table instead of raw damage and instead of going Leeroy into the middle of a scrum and then wondering why they were globaled. They use LoS and they use their CC. I realize that being undergeared AND new is a big concern but plenty of players have offered suggestions as to how to go about negating both sides of the struggle.

This sums it up nicely. We're at the easiest it's EVER been to gear up. It's mind-numbingly easy. In addition to that you now have base resilience. I've had so many alts I levelled up where I would killed to have that. As Ty says, you get put through the wringer and you're forced to use your other abilities creatively. It's good training.