Blood tanking Wanting more DPS

[Airwaves]

oh how tanking has fallen

[Cryopathy]

I am really intrigued by that, is it better then a mastery>exphitcap>parry build? I'm currently progressing through heroic, i would really like to try that build but i'm afraid of being too squishy lacking mastery.

For pure survival, prioritzing mastery should result in a smoother damage intake and similar total damage reduction to an avoidance build. In 10H raiding though, pure maximum survival is rarely needed, and DPS is important. Stacking avoidance is a way to significantly increase DPS without making a large sacrifice in survivability. Feel free to take a look at my armory in my sig; I have not had any trouble surviving the way I am geared for 7/14H on 10-man so far (first 5 bosses, General Nazgrim, and Spoils).

[Soisoisoi]

oh how tanking has fallen

I'm assuming by fallen you mean has became far more advanced and, uh, better?

[Stormcall]

On a slightly related note, I play a lot less than I used to, and haven't really been on in about 2 months. I'm planning on hopping back on soon and exploring the Timeless Isle, and I know there's a lot of elites and stuff there...my blood DK is around 490 ilvl, what would be best for him, DPS wise? I don't need massive survivability as I'm not going to be raiding, just fighting rares and elite mobs. Since my gear is only 490 I don't have tons of haste...would parry still be superior to haste at that level from a strictly DPS standpoint?

[Bowiz]

what dps are you doing in 10 man normal on a boss cryopathy?

[Deleted]

My DK is my former main, and i find tanking fun again. (Havent tanked on it for ages, having 4 tanks, 2 healers and a main which is a caster, there has not been time for this char)

How is the ratio on dodge vs parry looking now, is it still needed to balance those stats somewhat or can you just go full on parry (After hit/exp cap and mastery ofc)

I am currently at work, so i cant open armory, since its a secure worksite (Yet i can open MMO for some reason).

My char is Logiknight on Frostwhisper for reference.

[chibichibiko]

Logilock,
The diminishing returns on avoidance stats happen a lot less dramatically in MoP as compared to Cata, so it's viable to go full-parry if you want more dps. You might end up losing 1%ish avoidance at higher levels due to not balancing, but you'll gain a lot more in damage from parryhaste, which will in turn boost survivability with SoB and bloodworm procs.
I just go full parry because in 10 the dps is more important than the small boost in survivability for most fights. For reference, I'm somewhere in the 550's for ilvl.

I don't think that you'd be poorly served by doing the same, but you're also not going to notice much difference by switching things around. We're really talking about the margins when it comes to balancing dodge/parry and favoring parry. You'll notice much bigger gains in dps by using more dpsy trinkets, RotFC, & dps legendary cloak (you'll get there)

Also, I wouldn't throw away socket bonuses, even if they're strength. Strength still contributes to parry, after all.

[Kaharon]

Please....please....please.... /facepalm

This is a DK that has not that much experience playing blood dk. I think it will be better for him to go the way of 150-200% mastery and the rest in haste because he has far more resources and can't do too much wrong.

Yes, parry gives crit, yet most of the DK's survivability comes from Death Strikes and their timing. So if you try to get very good at blood dk you should learn how to death strike correctly, especially when. Just gemming pure crit/pure parry (resulting in 75% crit of the parry stat) will likely bring you more DPS and some "lucky" avoidence whereas you with enough haste can actually decide HOW you avoid damage and become much tankier than those that just have ~10% more avoidance overall.

Just because riposte was created and it gives you crit (useless stat aside from DPS) does not mean everyone has to take it.

Btw I would bet that DK's that gem for 200% mastery and rest in haste have much better dmg taken and self healing done than the parry-crit guys. Also the DPS will not be that much of a difference.

Personally I play full crit build because I usually am Unholy for fights (8/14 hc) but sometimes have to tank, like the first 6 heroic bosses before our second tank rolls in. But I know that as soon as I switch to mastery haste I will be much, much tankier and just lose around ~10% of overall DPS. And seeing as right now people actually have enough gear to "ignore" enrage timers it is much better (imo) to go tanky and relieve some healer stress.

[Tojara]

You're so wrong. The difference between somebody going full avoidance and somebody going full mastery with haste on the side is absolutely staggering.

You're statement about taking more damage is also not true. The only thing mastery does over avoidance is make damage intake smoother. As a function of OVERALL damage taken, mastery versus full avoidance is actually fairly similar. Mastery smoothing damage is important, and there are times you will feel spikier with avoidance, but saying that you will take more overall damage isn't true at all.

There is a reason a lot of people here are telling you that avoidance is good, because it is. SoB has been changed not only to give RP on hits, but also on avoidance. More parry means more hits and more well, avoidance. Both of these loop to give you a fair bit of RP, and in most cases combined with the AMS are more than enough to keep you GCD capped on 95% of the encounters. More RP means more death strikes, which equate to more survival.

Mastery is a preference but at the cost of damage. Actually going for haste is really dumb at the moment IMO. You can obtain the effect of having a high haste build by going avoidance, with the benefit of actually getting avoidance and in turn obtaining more crit. Seems like a no-brainer to me. Avoidance, higher damage via critical strike from riposte, and parry haste resulting in more RP for more death strikes is just way too good.

If you want to tell people to find a comfortable amount of mastery then fine, that's what every DK should be doing anyway. But telling somebody that they will take more damage with avoidance as opposed to mastery/haste isn't true at all.

Having tanks do more damage (which is something that is important) results in bosses dying quicker. Bosses dying quicker and meeting soft enrage checks is a surefire way to relieve stress on healers as well.

[Cryopathy]

what dps are you doing in 10 man normal on a boss cryopathy?

Here's a page with my ranks, feel free to look them over: http://www.wow-heroes.com/character/...ras/Cryopathy/

On single-target fights like Blackfuse or Iron Juggernaut, looks like I did around 215k last week.

[Pickwickman]

Advice from someone who probably last checked Blood DK theorycraft in 5.2.

Haste is crap compared to Avoidance both DPS wise and survivability wise since more RP -> more DS; and I would bet that avoidance build can pump out way more DS's than a haste build.

Mastery itself is a decent stat for smoothing damage; but avoidance is actually less total damage taken, although spikey.

That's why people advice you to keep around 150-200% mastery; that way your input still smooths damage intake, but you can have avoidance to fall back on.

I can't believe i'm saying this, since I was totally against avoidance since Firelands, but avoidance is KING and Haste is a shit stat atm, only pure Crit is worse.

[jangkun]

So if you go avoidance build. How much mastery do you guys have?

[Pickwickman]

So if you go avoidance build. How much mastery do you guys have?

150%-200%; depending on your content and current boss.

LFR would go 0 mastery; Flex would go for 120-140%; normal and above anywhere between 150%-200%; the most important thing here how the damage intake will be, if it doesn't need that much smoothing (less hard hitting bosses) you can sacrifice more mastery for more parry.

[Tojara]

I have ~125% mastery without the mastery buff. Currently 10/14HC with Thok dying tonight. We 2 heal everything (except Thok and Iron Juggernaut) and properly timed CDs have resulted in absolutely no problems.

Doing nearly 400K DPS on Thok makes a huge difference.

[Lukazor]

This is me - http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...lybeans/simple

Currently 10/14 Normal mode.

I have been trying to find that middle ground between mitigation and DPS. I'm at 160% mastery unbuffed and 16.36% haste, although I'm going to alter my reforges on wrists and boots for a bit more haste and drop some more mastery.

This particular setup nets me around 150k-170k DPS over the course of a boss depending on the type of fight. On Malkorok for example on the pull I reached 328k DPS and finished around 170k-180k mark. Healers have no trouble keeping me alive and for our Normal mode progression this build seems the right balance between survivability and DPS.

[Bowiz]

ive updated my dk blood spec CHAR NAME : BOWIZ REALM: TERROKAR since ive done the change my DPS has increase an extra 30k, If some one could check me out and see if my stats are any better now. thanks

[Lukazor]

ive updated my dk blood spec CHAR NAME : BOWIZ REALM: TERROKAR since ive done the change my DPS has increase an extra 30k, If some one could check me out and see if my stats are any better now. thanks

I'm no expert but I'd reforge some of the Dodge/Parry off your helm and wrists into something like haste, stacking haste will ramp up your dps and tbh 27% parry is quite a lot and probably not needed. Get rid of the parry gem in your wrists too. I also see on some bits of gear you have gemmed crit. I personally go with haste as a blood DK and sit at 16.36% unbuffed - Cant really comment on how effective crit is.

You can also afford to drop 1.24% expertise and a 1% of hit. I personally go with Expertise + Mastery gems in red sockets and tend to never reforge into expertise, reforge into something more useful like haste if you want to continue to up your dps.

That's my thoughts anyway and everyone's play style differs. A link to my Armory is in the post above if you are interested.

[bals]

I'm no expert but I'd reforge some of the Dodge/Parry off your helm and wrists into something like haste, stacking haste will ramp up your dps and tbh 27% parry is quite a lot and probably not needed. Get rid of the parry gem in your wrists too. I also see on some bits of gear you have gemmed crit. I personally go with haste as a blood DK and sit at 16.36% unbuffed - Cant really comment on how effective crit is.

You can also afford to drop 1.24% expertise and a 1% of hit. I personally go with Expertise + Mastery gems in red sockets and tend to never reforge into expertise, reforge into something more useful like haste if you want to continue to up your dps.

That's my thoughts anyway and everyone's play style differs. A link to my Armory is in the post above if you are interested.

please read the thread. Haste is a thing of the past, avoidance is better for dps now.

[Lukazor]

please read the thread. Haste is a thing of the past, avoidance is better for dps now.

Well shit... Where have I been since the patch hit?!

[kiblermission]

I'm no expert but I'd reforge some of the Dodge/Parry off your helm and wrists into something like haste, stacking haste will ramp up your dps and tbh 27% parry is quite a lot and probably not needed. Get rid of the parry gem in your wrists too. I also see on some bits of gear you have gemmed crit. I personally go with haste as a blood DK and sit at 16.36% unbuffed - Cant really comment on how effective crit is.

You can also afford to drop 1.24% expertise and a 1% of hit. I personally go with Expertise + Mastery gems in red sockets and tend to never reforge into expertise, reforge into something more useful like haste if you want to continue to up your dps.

That's my thoughts anyway and everyone's play style differs. A link to my Armory is in the post above if you are interested.

The main thing I'd say, along with the previous post about haste kind of being old, which it's based on opinion of course, is that the dps meta is not the way to go. Overall the tank meta is better, the dmg reduction, improved proc chance, plus the reduction in proc chance for tank spec's with the dps meta are not worth it any more. The dps cloak is viable for fights you have low chance of dying, and we are dks so purg is a reliable enough way of dealing with that, but the meta I can't agree with at all.