How to find great raiders?

[Osmeric]

Maybe advertise your guild as a place for up and coming raiders to tune up their dps? Offer log analysis and respectful coaching as services? You might get people who are planning to go elsewhere, but some may become happy enough to stick around.

[Ailylia]

It takes patience and time to build a great raid team usually.

The key is to have a plan, and stick to it. This is your foundation. Something that everyone who joins your team should know. I built forums for my raid team. Every tier I evaluate the last tier and set our expectations for the next tier. I bring everyone on board with the plan.

Set goals and track to them. Make them realistic. You might not be building a guild that competes with the top 10/100 teams, but that doesn't mean your guild is a failure. Every guild can measure success in any way they choose, and when you recruit people you let them know what your goals are. This gives them the proper expectations. If your goal is to end each tier having done about half of the heroic encounters, then you can consider yourself a success within that framework. The people you recruit with that statement in mind will also consider it successful. It helps to keep raiders from getting frustrated if they're not getting what they thought they signed up for.

I really like what Naer said above: "If you build a great place to raid, they will come." Its pretty much true. Start at the bottom and have patience. Great raid teams take a while to build.

As far as improving your existing raid:

Evaluate your current raiders objectively and if they are under performing figure out how to help motivate them to become better, let them know what your expectations for them are. But don't overwhelm them, focus on key areas for improvement for each person. You also have to know the person and how they respond to criticism. Some of my raiders I can say "hey, you're not using ability X on cooldown, fix it!" while others I have to be more diplomatic with. Its just how you handle personalities. But always try to focus on the biggest improvement and not bombard people with a giant laundry list of what they can do to be better.

[clevin]

One more thing I'd add to Ailyara's v good post... know your shit.

In the OP you say things like 'doing 120k when they should be doing 160k' and that's fine.... if you know that they should, with their class, spec and gear, be doing 160k. But if you're just looking at ilevel and saying "Man, they should be doing like 160k" that undercuts your reputation as you come off as someone who demands stuff without really knowing what's correct.

Also, be wary of judging DPS on one fight. Many of the SoO fights have things that interrupt DPS... Immerseus' split, Norushen's debuff (and when you go down to clear it), Gal's tower stuff, Thok's Fixate, etc. Try to evaluate that stuff across several attempts on fights where the DPS isn't interrupted as much - Sha, Iron Jug, etc.

Finally, two more things. First, you can't demand of your raiders a level of performance that you're not hitting (and you can't demand of new recruits a level of performance that your existing team isn't hitting, i.e. your friends don't get to slack). Second, you need to decide where you want to be in SoO and clearly communicate that. If you want to build a 2 day per week 10 man heroic raid, decide that, make sure all 6 of you are really committed to that and advertise and screen for it. If you're fine with 10 man Normal for this tier, do the same.

[Fluttershy]

World of logs can tell you almost everything you need to know from a performance standpoint for a tank or dps.

[clevin]

World of logs can tell you almost everything you need to know from a performance standpoint for a tank or dps.

If you really know how to use it. From what I've seen over the months here many RLs, esp new ones, don't.

[Jarntrak]

No great raider would really want to join an unestablished guild to be honest with you.

[NoRest4Wicked]

When I was still seriously raiding I used the Battlenet guild recruitment forums to great success for finding guilds. You see all kinds of guilds on there from top progression to 2 day a week casual. I would enlist some people to look around the forums, post threads, bump them and spam people LF guilds.

[Deleted]

Its a pretty hard job, i started a guild back in wotlk, the problem is, if your guild is unknown, no real good players will join. I did invite alot of players, 95% were only crap some personally some for their poor performance. Its important to see through people you need to know if a player who runs in bad gear has potential. Is this player capable and willing to learn? Does he wanna be the best in what he is doing?
As long as the player is willing to learn, he will most likeley will be a good player in the future, so keep him. All others need to be kicked you dont want to keep bad personalities because they will be the reason good players wont stay.
I kicked 90% of all players i invited. I had a good small roster but the problem is the better the players get, theyre thinking of changing to a much higher ranked guild. Its easys to loose great playeres but very hard to teach a mediocore to be good.
After a while this process was too time consuming i closed the guild and told the players to find new guilds. They were noobs when the joined the guild and started then in the best guilds of the server after they left.
Anyway its hard, and alot of people will hate you for kicking them out. But there is no nice way to form a strong guild in a short time. I didnt kick players for being noob, just people who had bad personalities.
I would never ever do this again, its to hard, to make anybody happy. But still wish you the best.

I forgot the most important thing. If you looking for great players, you need to be great too, it helps if you are even better and you should know alot of the game. Nothing destroys more your credibility than to know less than a trial.

[clevin]

No great raider would really want to join an unestablished guild to be honest with you.

Depends. If someone was very hardcore but wanted to step down in intensity they might switch. But you're right that OP isn't going to poach from top guilds on their server players who want to continue to progress at that level. As with building most things, building a raid team takes time.

- - - Updated - - -

Its a pretty hard job, i started a guild back in wotlk, the problem is, if your guild is unknown, no real good players will join. I did invite alot of players, 95% were only crap ...
I kicked 90% of all players i invited....

And this is why you don't spam invites, etc. So, one more thing. Advertise, but have a basic application form on your guild site. (and make sure you DO have a site). The form should be basic, not snobby, but it serves as a barrier to people who simply don't care what guild they're in. Ask the basics - how long they've been playing, armory link, what they want out of the guild, are they interested in raiding? PVP? You can tell a lot from a basic application and just the fact that you have one sets you apart from all of those guilds that spam invites.

[xiic]

I cleared heroic T11 and got a US top 20 something Sinestra kill with a guild I formed straight out of trade chat on a backwater, dead server. We didn't have a single server transfer app or anyone from a better raiding guild join ours. You have to be lucky and you have to be really committed.

[Deleted]

to be honest my approach was pretty solid, because i kicked so many the ones that werent felt really home and safe. They knew theyre safe because they did care to play better. But some that did get very strong and better than anyone else looking for a much stronger guild and i never stopped them or tried because i would have and had done the same in the past. Its human nature.
But i did this all with a friend, its alot work for 2 people.Its alot easier when you start out with 6 friends, its a big core if you are all at the same page.

[Deleted]

Thanks for all the replies guys!

Well in ToT we had a pretty stable core team of 10 skilled people, though some of them had to quit because of studies, and recently my own brother who was in the core team quit since he was bored of the game in general.

Our guild has lots to offer, we're the largest Swedish guild on the realm (not uncommon with 45+ people online), though most are not interested in normal raiding. The guild has a stable RBG team, but I do not participate in them. I arrange flex raids on saturdays where anyone with mumble and 510+ ilvl can join, it's really fun and brings the guild together; so should I maybe try to analyze people in the flex raid and see who has potential? Like posting on WoL or just trying to observe real time.

To the team right now I also have 2 healers though both are resto druids which is pretty much "core", (forgot to count them when I did the first post

Recently I found a guy who said he could be the second leader, I should see how good he is at raiding and leading and see if he's right for the job when he's geared, much easier to have a right hand.

[Deleted]

Thanks for all the replies guys!

Well in ToT we had a pretty stable core team of 10 skilled people, though some of them had to quit because of studies, and recently my own brother who was in the core team quit since he was bored of the game in general.

Our guild has lots to offer, we're the largest Swedish guild on the realm (not uncommon with 45+ people online), though most are not interested in normal raiding. The guild has a stable RBG team, but I do not participate in them. I arrange flex raids on saturdays where anyone with mumble and 510+ ilvl can join, it's really fun and brings the guild together; so should I maybe try to analyze people in the flex raid and see who has potential? Like posting on WoL or just trying to observe real time.

To the team right now I also have 2 healers though both are resto druids which is pretty much "core", (forgot to count them when I did the first post

Recently I found a guy who said he could be the second leader, I should see how good he is at raiding and leading and see if he's right for the job when he's geared, much easier to have a right hand.

sounds like a good plan, also check players live, not only from logs. There are players who do their job great and dont fail and there are people who do that, also co lead and also can take care of the fails of other players. This kind of players you will not find in logs but this players will kill bosses for you. Basicly: look also for good teamplayers.

[clevin]

On DPS something I'd also recommend is to look at damage done as well as DPS. I usually live late into fights that are wipes, sometimes sacrificing DPS to avoid damage. A recent example is an LFR Dark Shamans. The other two hunters who were slightly better geared than I outdpsed me on the kill... until they died. I did something like 4x the actual damage that either of them did and lived to help get the kill. This is partly situational awareness, but the reason I raise it here is that people often say 'X should do Y DPS' and while it's good to hold people to standards, it's often more complex than that.

On your situation... yeah, I'd see of the high performing flex raiders want to run normals. Don't, though, be surprised if they don't. Flex attracts me because I can miss a night and the raid isn't off because I'm not there. A lot of people who like Flex might be like this - it doesn't matter that much if you have 14 or 18 so they know that they can tell the RL that they won't be there this week and it just doesn't have the same impact that it would on a regular raid.

[Odina]

The easy way (well easyest) is to use Flex as a "internship" so to speak. You an do a fast flex group with anyone applygn before a reg raid and see how they do in there. If they look promising toss out some pointers / what you want expect out of them and see if they pick it up in a reg raid. If they are really not good enough move on to the next apps. Oque and flex is also a nice way to find diamonds in the rough... see a decent player with no guild tag or decent and no normal progress may want to ask them if they would be interested in joining you!

[Skippy88]

I think at this stage in this tier everyone is happy and content that they are willing to stick with their guilds. Your best bet would be to focus on unguilded players. As the tier progresses and guilds hit a roadblock just be ready to pounce as they fall apart.

As frustrating as it is your going to have to keep at it. Make sure you keep raiding and pug pug pug. Make some friends in other guilds and get some of their alts or bench players to help out in your raids. Keep at the various forums and make sure your website is up to date.

Good luck.

[Drakoes]

The easy way (well easyest) is to use Flex as a "internship" so to speak. You an do a fast flex group with anyone applygn before a reg raid and see how they do in there. If they look promising toss out some pointers / what you want expect out of them and see if they pick it up in a reg raid. If they are really not good enough move on to the next apps.

I like the concept, but that's a lot of commitment involved if you were to do it with every applicant. Yes, I would personally try to do something along the lines of this (perhaps not even do a full run), but the question is whether or not everyone else in the guild would be willing to spend this amount of time to 'assess' an applicant. If the applicant has got some really good logs and has a lot of current tier HC exp for example, the judgment should already be easy to make.

By no means this is a bad idea of course, but imagine having to do this for a guild that gets a ton of applications on a daily basis - doesn't that become a bit too much?

[Snuglz]

Do what I did. I got into a 25man guild that had some really good players and others were really bad holding everyone back. Go in there and kick some ass so people know you are really good. Then steal them away and form a elite 10m. Progress as a good 10m for awhile and see if you can't attract some other 10m guild to merge with you. lol

[Odina]

I like the concept, but that's a lot of commitment involved if you were to do it with every applicant. Yes, I would personally try to do something along the lines of this (perhaps not even do a full run), but the question is whether or not everyone else in the guild would be willing to spend this amount of time to 'assess' an applicant. If the applicant has got some really good logs and has a lot of current tier HC exp for example, the judgment should already be easy to make.

By no means this is a bad idea of course, but imagine having to do this for a guild that gets a ton of applications on a daily basis - doesn't that become a bit too much?

Correct but for a group that at teh moment is having issues filling a roster etc I woudl asume they are running flex when they can't fill in the group so the sugestion was really for the OP's situation and not really a HC established group looking for fresh blood

AS well as a RL or Officer you tend to invest more in applicants than the rest of the group becuase if they fail you end up looking bad so as a recruiter I would go in an LFR or flex in a heart beat with a candidate to asses them before having them raid with the rest tbh as it would give you a good idea of what you were workign with before presenting them to the group.

just an option

[Hexz]

In terms of finding great raiders that can go down to many things, as people have said making your self attractive to more people will always help.

In terms of figuring out if someone is actually good, hand down your best bet is to learn how to read and analyze data off world of logs, it can take a long time to figure it all out, and obviously it will require class knowledge outside your own, at first it might be all a bunch of 01010101 that makes no sense and take you several hours to figure out if you want someone, there is things like raidbots and percentile rankings that can help but obviously these are just the basics and you can go into so much more detail.

From my views the difference between really good players and standard players is how fast it takes them to learn, most people can do a close to prefect rotation standing still, if they can't well they shouldn't be in heroic raiding at least and might have issues with normal on some levels, either way once you start adding things to distract there focus they may see dps losses, die to these mechanics and so on, being able to see a recruits logs on progression and understanding all the data can make it pretty obvious if you going to get a decent dps, these days it doesn't take me very long from logs to figure out if i even want to bother with trialing a dps, in terms of healers and tanks it takes a much more effort in looking at the logs, but in the end the information is there. IF YOU KNOW HOW TO READ IT!!!!!

That's my advice at least, take the time, mess around with logs and get used to it, they can be a raid leaders best tool, there is just so much information there. Many people and honestly probably like 90% of people if not more like 99% simply use em to try rank on fights, but realistically when you know how to analyze the data it can easily save you a lot of time knowing if that recruit is at the level of the rest of your raiders.

Anyways that's just my view, its basically just me saying learn to read logs, lol.