Anyone else thinks Flex 4 is a little bit TOO difficult ?

[omni]

My guild (10/14N) took a long 12 people, average ilvl 540 (yes, over-gearing technically). Seigecrafter was a bit of a problem, people kept derping and dieing but we downed it after 5 or 6 wipes. Paragons was just... trash with a bit more effort we two-shot that. Nuke the one who MCs people and the one who spawns Bloods, everyone else was pretty much irrelevant. We only had time for 2 tries on Garrosh and we got him to his first transition phase without much problems. The wing might be tuned a little too high in my opinion, it feels like people with our gear should have an easier time.

As someone above said, Thok actually gave us a lot more trouble on Flex and Normal than Seigecrafter or Paragons.

[PowerGamez]

I actually found it easier than 2nd/3rd wing when first released.

Did it today on my 545 blood dk with a 540+ group. Was a guild run I joined so 8/11 (1 tank, 3 heals, 4 dps) people in the run were from same raid team and were 12/14 Normal.

1 shot siege. 1 shot paragons. 6 shots Garrosh.

Only reason we were wiping so much on Garrosh was because their healers were terrible.

Really enjoyed the Garrosh fight. It didn't feel completely faceroll.

[PrairieChicken]

Yeah... You don't stack for that. You avoid the void zones so you don't take extra damage, and don't spawn more adds. Fights are always harder if you do mechanics blatantly wrong.

I think our raid leader just did it cause it's only flex and at it didn't kill anyone

[Deleted]

We found Flex 4 more easier than Flex 3 actually. We went with quite a scrubby group. 4 good dpser with 200k dps or so, but then 6 low geared dps under 100k (2 tanks and 3 healers too). We 2 Shot Siege 2shot klaxxi and 1shot Garrosh. Before that we were on Flex 3 and wiped more. Most of the players had done the fights on normal already thought so peeps knew tactics.

[Tehpounderer]

We lost a tank on the third Klaxxi and solo tanked the rest of the fight.

Confirmed, I solo tanked the whole thing after co-tank dc'ed on the pull. I even grabbed Rikkal's buff and went scorpion (meaning no active mitigation used) with no problems. The healers didn't seem to have much to do other than heal me.

[Snaige]

Well, managed to kill that wing eventually. Still don't understand how people found Garosh harder. We one shot it without any issues, solotanked as well. On siegecrafter for example, tanks kept dying and raid took massive sudden aoe damage and we wiped wiped and wiped... Garosh seemed like a joke after Siegecrafter. Significantly less damage on the tank (thats why we only used one) and almost no damage on the raid. Just don't stand in the bad stuff and you win.

[TOM_RUS]

Just done Flex 4 - 12 man on my alt DK: 4 ppl from guild and rest are PuG's. We only wiped once on blackfuse (tanks fault). One shotted Paragons and Garrosh. How is this difficult?

[Warak]

blackfuse 2 wipes, klaxi 3 wipes, garosh 3 wipes, i think 2nd wing is harder provided that everyone knows what to do.
Easy to hard in my opinion is 1 3 4 2.

[Deleted]

Did part 4 twice in Openraid groups, first time was a semi guild run and the second was a pure pug event. Dps was higher was in purepug but the first group knew tacts better (I'm assuming they were on alts mostly). Siegecrafter seemed to cause the most problems overall for some reason (I think it was the mines and that Overload damage seemed higher than expected) while Paragons was 1 shot in the semi guild run and 2 shot in the other, while Garrosh caused a few wipes in the pure pug since people didn't know what to do but the first group found the dps requirement in phase 2 harder. Overall I wouldn't call it hard, but it wasn't a joke either which is how it should be imo.

[Halicia]

i think 2nd wing is harder provided that everyone knows what to do.

how is the 2nd wing hard in the slightest ?

i think the difficulty curve goes fairly decently, 1234.

been leading 25man flex pugs since the patch launched pretty much, and we have plenty of room to carry poor performers in 1 & 2. Wing 3 we've got some leeway on carrying poor performers, but not as much. and I ain't leading a wing 4 pug for another week or two.

[kenshinag]

BLZ: Please reconsider your definition about FLEX which is made for FACEROLLER LFR players.

I haven't read any of the other replies yet so I'm sorry if this a repeat of what someone else already stated. That said, I have 2 points:

1. If you want "BLZ" to address your concern, you should probably direct it to them. This means posting this on the official forums. I understand they from time to time come to read MMO champ. This is like leaving a message at someone's parent's answering machine (for their child) when they've moved out and have their own phone line. You can't expect your message to get into the right hands if you don't put it into the right hands.

2. I think you're misunderstanding who Flex's audience is intended to be. They've stated multiple times that Flex is designed to be something for laid back guilds to progress on. Key word is progress, because it's supposed to be something where not so serious guilds can down maybe 1-2 bosses a week and then come back the next week for more instead of being stuck on Horridon for 2 months. It has all the same mechanics as normal mode, just less damaging and more forgiving. Boss has less health, does less damage, and berserk timers are less strict. You are mistaken if you think they're supposed to be just another LFR lockout.

BONUS POINT: 3. My guild is only 8/14 normal mode 25 man. We're a pretty casual guild. We raid 2 nights a week for 3 hours a day. As an example, we killed Lei Shen normal the final week of 5.3. Week 1 of 5.4 we killed Protectors the final pull of day 1, then day 2 we spent the entire 3 hours wiping and unsuccessfully attempting Norushen. On wednesday we cleared wing 4 Flex with 22 players. We took 8 wipes to get Blackfuse cause we only learned on the last pull that on the belt you can jump and move much easier. We 1 shot Paragons, despite it being pulled mid explanation. Finally, we took 4 wipes to get down Garrosh, while having 2 people dead the whole time because someone told them they'd get a buff by being hit by the metal ball. Wing 4 is tuned very well. It was a solid challenge that was not a wall and after overcoming it, we were very happy to see the new warchief crowned.

[royals]

Well for most of the fight there wasn't much damage but in empowered swirling people were getting destroyed so don't know whats different thing. We didn't dodge any sha goo and stack heal and that might be the reason

I notice a few people responding to this already, but remember for empowered whirl the dmg taken goes down the farther you are away. (Others mentioned this too) But one thing I noticed everyone saying was "at max range", in normal mode we have plenty of dps so we just take down time from the boss and get WAY away, making the whirl tick for basically no damage and you are far far away to drop the weapon that is coming out while you kill your adds. You just need to stack quickly after killing your adds for the Mind Control coming after the weapon.

I would assume in flex that dps is a non issue for most raids as well since Flex's goal is usually to just follow mechanics, you don't need to overpower the boss. I've yet to do Garrosh on flex yet, but I would imagine having people spread far far away from the boss during empowered whirl will basically negate this mechanic.

[PrairieChicken]

I notice a few people responding to this already, but remember for empowered whirl the dmg taken goes down the farther you are away. (Others mentioned this too) But one thing I noticed everyone saying was "at max range", in normal mode we have plenty of dps so we just take down time from the boss and get WAY away, making the whirl tick for basically no damage and you are far far away to drop the weapon that is coming out while you kill your adds. You just need to stack quickly after killing your adds for the Mind Control coming after the weapon.

I would assume in flex that dps is a non issue for most raids as well since Flex's goal is usually to just follow mechanics, you don't need to overpower the boss. I've yet to do Garrosh on flex yet, but I would imagine having people spread far far away from the boss during empowered whirl will basically negate this mechanic.

As far as I know sha blob thing in empowered isn't affected by range

[NeverStop]

Don't have downies in your group and Flex 4 is faceroll with 530+ ilvl.

Hint: you're a downie if "don't get hit by the Iron Star" is too difficult for you.

Infracted

[Elestia]

Wing 4 bosses are designed to be testing of both individual ability when it comes to mechanics (Blackfuse) as well as raid ability (Paragons) and then a combination of both on Garrosh. If you have neither, then you're going to have a long learning curve. My suggestion might be to bring heavy hitting dps (over 200k) that know the fights (1-3 of them) and at least one healer that can do over 100k hps sustained so that you ensure tank survival and have shorter attempts. Even in my group of 10 people, all experienced raiders, we came 12% short on Garrosh on multiple attempts, 2 healing. Granted not all of our usual dps were there, but if we had everyone averaging over 200k dps, it would have been a piece of cake. (Note we only did 3 attempts or so.)

[judgementofantonidas]

BLZ: Please reconsider your definition about FLEX which is made for FACEROLLER LFR players.

Only faceroll LFR players think this. Blizz never represented Flex as the new home of the incapable.

[royals]

As far as I know sha blob thing in empowered isn't affected by range

If by "blob" you mean the void zones that spawn the adds then you are right, the zones dmg done is not affected by range, but if you are spread you should only have to dodge a singular zone (the one targeting you) and will make the actual whirl damage negligable.

[Normie]

Flex p4 hard? Only if you make it harder than it is. If you have PTR experience and normal cleared you should have zero problems.

Ahahahaha. The irony is thick with this one.

- - - Updated - - -

Granted not all of our usual dps were there, but if we had everyone averaging over 200k dps, it would have been a piece of cake. (Note we only did 3 attempts or so.)

As far as I read from the experts here, everyone in Timeless gear should be doing 200k if you spend 2 minutes gemming and enchanting so why is this even a problem anyway?

[ro9ue]

I think Flex has some challenge, but it's obviously not to the extent of normal and heroic modes. In Flex, you could really progress through the whole raid in one night. In normal and heroic it's hardly like that at all... could be stuck on a boss for weeks.

[Deleted]

stop sucking?

Infracted; Post construcitively.