Why is Ulduar fondly remembered?

[Lothaeryn]

I am probably biased because I was in a shitty raid guild when it launched and didn't transfer until after ToC was released, so by the time I got to do any serious raiding in there it was already outdated. I like a lot of things about the instance... it's huge, lot of bosses, interesting mechanics, organic hard modes. For whatever reason it just doesn't get me going, though.

I was in a raiding guild that did ulduar, i never got to set foot in the raid when it was current...

That being said, when I DID enter the raid, it was a damn masterpiece. Not only was is a new leap in titan lore, it was a beautiful prison for an old god, and showed us the capabilities of the Titans and their view of Azeroth when it was reshaped.

It tied all of the keepers lore from all of Northrend together into a fantastic culmination of a raid. And fully explained who Yogg-Saron was and how he was able to achieve what he did.

And aside from the lore perspective, the raid encounters were phenomenal, every fight was challenging yet simple. The bosses themselves had unique character, and each downed boss felt like it would have been an achievement in progression.

And last but not least, the hard modes completely revamped the encounter every time you attempted them. The bosses literally had dps checks built into them to prevent people from getting cocky with their raids. Not to mention key changes in the boss encounter that pretty much changed how the entire fight worked entirely.

And 0 lights in the darkness is still tough as shit to master. It can easily be out geared now, but back when it was endgame it would need a completely competent team just to get the first two phases started without someone going insane.

ToC, and everything afterwards pales in comparison to how well and polished that raid felt. everything had its place and nothing was broken or missing that could improve it to its highest potential.

[Brodeo]

Because at the end of the day, people who werent in shitty guilds got to overcome it and feel accomplished in doing so.

Now, your first real kill comes after a dozen or so lesser kills.

[Memory]

Can i see your black protodrake since that is the ONLY thing "hardcore" about rehashed clear it on first week Naxx25.

I enjoyed the laugh though. Did you clear sunwell or pug it's trash?

http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../memory/simple

[zenyatta]

Hardmodes, optional bosses. Awesome art work. Sick boss fights.

All of this. Kara and Ulda dog-fight for my #1 raid spot, depends on my mood which I list first.

[beanman12345]

Still, not possible everywhere.
Anyway, look, it's a bit like comparing Blackrock Depths with... hmm... Temple of the Jade Serpent. The first one seems to convey an idea of the developers, even a story, while the latter is there just because the game needs to provide you with gear for level 85-86.
If you look at it from the perspective of functionality, it hardly matters: in fact, BRD is highly non functional. But then we need to question what do we want from a videogame. Just hard bosses? I liked Ulduar because some things made sense, others didn't.
In fact BRD is either loved or hated. Ulduar was not as extreme as BRD, so it's not as hated, just loved. But I guess many people like Ulduar for the same reason dungeons such as BRD became iconic.


You missed the part when you went back without your buddies dying.

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Also Wailing Caverns is not linear and I think it sucks. It's a lot of things, not just one. Ulduar had some great fights. Dragon Soul I didn't experience, I can't compare anyway.

I do agree with that. Ulduar had some great fights. Hodir as a tank in my 25 man group was uber fun. mimi, thorim, yogg, flame. Loved em.

[anaxie]

Ulduar, the best definition of bandwagon nostalgia in WoW.

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http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../memory/simple

Black and no Plagued? I think you failed at the only """hardcore""" part of T7. Shoulda finished

[Swampfox2223]

To me, it was the last real creative raid Blizzard has made. I loved my guild, joined in BC, still in it today. We got realm first Celestial Defender. Algalon's speech is 2nd to none, imo. Mimiron was one of the most fun, frustrating, fiery, and fucking insane fight on hard-mode. The lore build-up to Ulduar was very very well laid out. I loved the activated hardmodes, I wish it was still, not this switching crap. All-in-all it's makes it my most memorable and fun raid to date.

[Memory]

Black and no Plagued? I think you failed at the only """hardcore""" part of T7. Shoulda finished

In the last few weeks before Ulduar we were running short on setups for Malygos 5 minutes in 10 man. Since I was guild leader at that point, I excluded myself while organizing as many groups as possible for other people, so guildies would see that it doesn't matter if someone doesn't get a drake. I don't expect you to understand, though.

[anaxie]

In the last few weeks before Ulduar we were running short on setups for Malygos 5 minutes in 10 man. Since I was guild leader at that point, I excluded myself while organizing as many groups as possible for other people, so guildies would see that it doesn't matter if someone doesn't get a drake. I don't expect you to understand, though.

Being such a "Hardcore" raider in Naxx as you claimed. I'm just surprised.

[Neforpubl]

For me it's variety and choice that won out to make this the best raid, Just look at the options

Kill first boss -> Unlocks 2 optional bosses and 1 progression boss
Kill next progression boss -> Unlocks 1 progression and 1 optional
Kill next progression boss -> Unlocks next progress boss
Kill next progression boss -> Unlocks 4 progress bosses who can be done in any order

From there it's a straight run through to 2 progression bosses one after another. Now factor in the hard modes and the final unlock-able boss and you've got exactly what you want. Bonuses include variety of raid scenery and big differences in bosses making them fairly different from one another.

It also remains one of the most fun, after all who doesn't have a story or two to tell about the first time someone "accidentally" pushed that giant button.

This.

Ten Chars.

[Spotnick]

Because it only lasted 5 months.

There is no other reason, nobody had time to get tired of it.

[Memory]

Being such a "Hardcore" raider in Naxx I'm surprised you didn't kill Malygos 5 minutes by default weekly.

So your point is...?

[anaxie]

Because it only lasted 5 months.

There is no other reason, nobody had time to get tired of it.

4 months.

And everyone I raided with hated doing the place for more maces in ToC. and we bought cleared IDs for Mimiron head farming because nobody CBA to clear the place again.

It was a cool raid. Nothing more nothing less. Top 5 all time perhaps.

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So your point is...?

I'm saying Naxx was a joke and shouldn't be referred to as Hardcore unless it's Vanilla Naxx. Essentially.

[Olrox]

Because people enjoyed it.

This is the best statement.

Ulduar was, believe it or not (hint: fucking believe it) very well-done and arguably one of Blizzard's finest showings thus far.

Ulduar had great artistic cohesion - the bosses all felt like they belonged and had a unique theme and the mechanics were actually very fun for most of them.

The armor sets were fairly positively-received even and that's pretty rare - none of them are really looked on as great "classics" or are even widely transmogged that I've ever seen but you don't hear nearly as much hate as you do about some sets and I don't recall the level of hate that T14/15/16 sets have gotten this expansion.

I think the way hard-modes were introduced was also a big part of why people liked Ulduar - not every boss had a hard mode and the ones that did had (in all cases but one) a fairly unique way of activating it - obviously changing the kill order isn't that innovative and "kill the boss really fast" isn't either but never had they done something like "leave these tree dudes alive" or "break this thing's heart" and such - the Thorim one was pretty neat too.

I honestly wouldn't mind them going back to the Ulduar thing where you didn't have full hard modes - might give them more room for mechanical play and difficulty progression.

Ulduar also had a great story that you worked toward pretty long and I think it stayed relevant for a huge group of players from questing to killing Yogg since the characters of the plot were in the raid for the most part and then you get the brain chamber rooms with events from Warcraft yore that you learn were perpetuated by Yogg-Saron - pretty damn cool.

What else? The bosses were enjoyable, the art was pretty neat, the variety of locales was varied and actually worked - the types of bosses I think did a lot for it too - your first encounter is a gigantic tank, followed by a statue-making blacksmith guy and a dragon you have to spear down to the ground. XT was kinda neat too but the voiceover made me hate that fight and who can forget Kologarn? I just think they haven't quite nailed a theme as well as they did with Ulduar since then, though Throne of Thunder came kind of close, I think they could've done something better with the first section and the Lei Shen fight (he's a fucking standard issue "storm lord" type of god-figure and you fight him IN-DOORS? Why wasn't he on the roof of the palace with a huge storm crackling around the platform?)

I also think the design of the Ulduar complex was just really well thought-out - they didn't go as simplistic as they did with ICC where it had the same kind of "wing" design they employed in Naxx but without the cavernous, progressive feel Ulduar had (that is, you still moved enough between clusters of bosses that you felt the physical progression deeper into the complex and the locale changes made sense) I think Throne pulled that part off pretty well too, but it just wasn't that memorable to me because of the bosses I suppose - not mechanically, just their roles in the plot and how forgettable some of them were (Consorts are memorable because there are literally no other female Mogu in the game but Iron Qon really doesn't leave an impression and neither do any of the bestial bosses aside from Primordius since he actually is the answer to one of the cooler mysteries in Pandaria)

That's my thought but see Berri's post for the real answer - people enjoyed it... tons of them and I think the reason Uld is so universally well-thought-of is largely because Blizzard legitimately did a great job with it in nearly all categories - it's not all just nostalgia of the players who were doing it when it was current, though no one would deny that it's some of it.

[Memory]

I'm saying Naxx was a joke and shouldn't be refered to as Hardcore unless it's Vanilla Naxx. Essentially.

Well, Immortal and Sartharion3D-10man could be considered hardcore, as far as T7 is concerned.

But look, it's not like I went out with a sign saying: HEY, I'M A HARDCORE RAIDER.
I just answered to the fifth grade comments of someone who realized he'd better get out of here. Not like you didn't support him, though.

Oh, and I cleared Karazhan before 2.1... But I can't prove it with an achievement. My reputation is doomed, pity.

[Spotnick]

Well, Immortal and Sartharion3D-10man could be considered hardcore, as far as T7 is concerned.

Not really, Immortal was a joke to get in full heroic ICC gear when they made it possible to do Sapphiron and KT from the start. Took us 3 weeks to do it I think.

[Memory]

Not really, Immortal was a joke to get in full heroic ICC gear when they made it possible to do Sapphiron and KT from the start. Took us 3 weeks to do it I think.

Immortal was removed in April when Ulduar came out. Not sure what you remember...
Beside, also if it wasn't removed, would still be 'hardcore' at its given time.

[anaxie]

Immortal was removed in April when Ulduar came out. Not sure what you remember...
Beside, also if it wasn't removed, would still be 'hardcore' at its given time.

drake was removed. Immortal was not. title has little value.

[Dreyen]

It was the first raid with hardmodes, and yogg-saron having severeal layers of difficulty. The hardmodes were pretty innovative too. Algaon was the first optional extra boss. It also had the first real vehicle fight... i loved flame lev, too bad there were no others.

The fights were fun, the gear looked cool, it had a badass final boss, whats not to like?

[Memory]

Ah, right, Immortal was removed with Cataclsym...
Well, as I said, was hardcore at its time, just like everything.