[Arcane] T15 4-set RIP

[Firebert]

If you think taking tier to possibly use later over someone who would make use of it straight away is acceptable then I feel sorry for the rest of your (hypothetical) guild.

That's not what I said. Gear should be weighted on base and secondary stats alone early in a tier, hence T16 > T15. You misunderstand the definition of the word "bonus".

And since you're an LFR hero, your opinion means even less seeing as you haven't even been put in the situation of competing against others for tier.

It's cute that you think that MMO-Champion is Elitist Jerks. Everyone's allowed their opinion here regardless of cleared content, guild status or otherwise.

[Spliff]

It is not early in the tier and once again you've completely missed the point about why so many mages haven't taken tier over other classes on the same token. You are doing nothing but demonstrating your ignorance of how good the set bonus was and why it would be selfish to take the tier over others up until yesterday - which ties in with me mentioning all you do is LFR, you have no reason to care about what's best.

So coming in here making absurd statements about how we should have taken T16 because it had higher stats is ridiculous.

[Firebert]

It is not early in the tier

We shall see. Patch 5.4 released 10/9/13, 44 days ago. Assuming that "early" is the first third, if this tier finishes before 20/1/14, then you're right, we're not early in the tier.

You are doing nothing but demonstrating your ignorance of how good the set bonus was

It was a bonus. They took away that bonus. That's what happens to bonuses. They change.

I feel you're ignorant on how gear works, tier gear isn't just the bonus.

all you do is LFR, you have no reason to care about what's best.

That's besides the point. Nice ad hominem.

[Spliff]

Well this is a waste of time so I'm just going to leave it there, you have your opinion and I have mine.

[Deleted]

It's not opinions.
Bonuses stricto sensu might be just additional perks. But when did the literal meaning of words have anything to do with a video game ? Yeah right, thought so.
You cannot just BLINDLY take items because OMFG moar ilvl, especially set items (and trinkets).

Also in an environment where you actually compete against other players for loots, would you have me preventing others to get their set bonuses for my personal ilvl whoreishness ? Maybe whype to enrage timers or lack of healing output because they don't have their 4P ? Because I want to keep my items in my bag just in the apprehension that maybe they might nerf my set - but then again maybe not ?

If that's the kind of environment and social interactions you are indeed promoting (and it does look a lot like it) then so be it but I know I have my guild's interest at heart, more than mine - when it comes to raiding at least.

That's besides the point. Nice ad hominem.

Even though I admit these kinds of attacks (calling you a lfr hero) have the tendencies of being really useless and doesn't bring a lot to the argument, it does hold water when we are actually talking about gear distribution in a social environment, experiencing it first hand might be helpful in understanding the issue here - i'd be holding to LFR / Flex pieces as well if they were even dropping when I go there, but the loot distribution there has nothing to do with nm/hc.

[Firebert]

Bonuses stricto sensu might be just additional perks. But when did the literal meaning of words have anything to do with a video game ? Yeah right, thought so.

If they weren't bonuses Blizzard would call them something else.

You cannot just BLINDLY take items because OMFG moar ilvl, especially set items (and trinkets).

You cannot blindly pass on tier believing that the only thing that you're holding on to won't get nerfed, especially when that thing is a bonus.

Also in an environment where you actually compete against other players for loots, would you have me preventing others to get their set bonuses for my personal ilvl whoreishness ? Maybe whype to enrage timers or lack of healing output because they don't have their 4P ? Because I want to keep my items in my bag just in the apprehension that maybe they might nerf my set - but then again maybe not ?

It's always best to maximise raid-wide item level because that raises the average performance of the raid the most; bonuses add RNG and hence the corridor of performance (maximum and minimum performance) and are hence why I'd prefer set bonuses be ignored when gearing a raid.

"preventing others obtaining set due to personal gain": No, preventing others from obtaining set for team-wide gain.
"wipe to enrage/healing due to lack of 4P": Again, no, 4P is a bonus, no fight is dependent on tier bonuses
"keeping items in case of set nerf": Lastly, no, you should ignore your set for stat worth early in the tier due to Blizzard balancing on the fly.

If that's the kind of environment and social interactions you are indeed promoting (and it does look a lot like it) then so be it but I know I have my guild's interest at heart, more than mine - when it comes to raiding at least.

We are on the same page: in any raid I want it to succeed and progress as fast as possible, it's just that many put too much stock in something volatile.

experiencing it first hand might be helpful in understanding the issue here

I have experienced it first hand. As my current character is my new main it may hide that fact.

[Deleted]

[voltaa]

I think this thread has gone far enough, if you want to constructively post about the recent change to the 4pc, feel free to start a new thread on the topic.