Can you see Blizzard...

[Kelimbror]

I heard of rumors of Blizzard hating some features they added and regretting ever adding them, but they won't remove them... rather they try to find ways around them.

You don't need a source because you are 100% correct they've stated this regarding some features. Racial abilities being one off the top of my head. However, this is a completely different issue than where you're taking it. These features aren't removed because players have been invested in them for far too long. They've stated they'll never make radical changes to the game, otherwise it would instantly turn off too many people.

In this case, they feel the game is better as is, but they would do it differently. While this sounds severe, it's really just a byproduct of iterative design. It's the same reason things like the talent system and how to acquire valor points constantly change. Those things are easy to shift directions in a new expansion. Removing racial traits (which people have paid money to switch or picked specifically b/c of the bonuses to min/max) would be an example of a drastic change that affects people in specific ways. Unless they offered every character a free race change (which won't happen) they can't justify removing the racial benefits.

[Hyve]

And this is what is wrong with gaming today.

Sorry, but this just isn't really holding up as a valid argument. Terming that Gaming is in a bad state today because it's all about money is naive.

Making games for the last ~20 years leading up to 1990 was more of a hobby, something that could be done in your basement, with very few people and very little expense. That has changed, and with the technology available today, players expect the most of their gaming experience.

It isn't enough anymore to make a game on a good idea, the game has to be brilliant, amazing and fantastic, and most of the time that comes from having a large pool of money to be able to finance those things, and that money comes with a clause, that you've got to pay it back!

Developers often want to produce the best game possible for their player base, of course, but very few companies have the financial freedom to do so, and are forced to make concessions and develop features that are more likely to drive a profit, with the minimal customer impact.

This is obviously something the gaming industry will have to balance properly, but don't forget how young the industry is, and how many mistakes other media platforms made. Books, TV, Film, Theater and various other methods of entertainment have been around far, far longer then Gaming as we know it today, so don't be so quick to claim the entire group of Developers / Game Developers are mindlessly joining the industry to make money, and that companies are only there to earn a profit.

[Deleted]

Sorry, but this just isn't really holding up as a valid argument. Terming that Gaming is in a bad state today because it's all about money is naive.

It is certainly worse than it was in the 90s. Back then you had developers who had passion, ideas and weren't afraid to experiment with new ideas. Now it's just "Copy WoW, Copy CoD, Copy Whatever Is Popular".

The only people who try to innovate anything now are the indie developers, everyone else tries to appease the masses and hoard as much money from the product as humanely possible.

It isn't enough anymore to make a game on a good idea, the game has to be brilliant, amazing and fantastic, and most of the time that comes from having a large pool of money to be able to finance those things, and that money comes with a clause, that you've got to pay it back!

The success of indie developers and retro/mobile gaming would like to disagree with you.

companies are only there to earn a profit.

Companies do not care about anything else than profit. If they've managed to make you believe otherwise, their marketing has been amazingly successful, because that is exactly what they want you to believe.

You think Blizzard gives a shit about you or me or anyone else for that matter? Their only interest is how many dollars they can make in a month. Everything else is unimportant.

[Kelimbror]

The success of indie developers and retro/mobile gaming would like to disagree with you

They said 'most of the time' which is entirely true. Additionally, there's a lot of copying going on in the indie development. It's almost worse than mainstream games at this point. Do you know how many indie survival horror games have been made in the last 3 ears? Do you know how many iterations on the tenets of minecraft we've seen? Thinking it's somehow different because it's on a smaller scale or budget is naïve. Copying is a staple of artistic endeavors, so that's not to say any of this is bad (like you seem to think it is). It just depends on the end result.

[Mercos]

Subscriptions are what counts to Blizzard. They are a business, and they are going to do whatever they think will bring in more money. Blizzard views whatever brings in more subscriptions as something that is to the betterment of the game.

[Deleted]

I dont want what I personally would like. I want what the majority wants, even if I don't agree, so that WoW keeps as many subs as possible so that the game lasts longer. This is what most people should understand. It's frustraing for me to see all these people that whine about the smallest thing instead of seeing the big picture.

Take me as a rolemodel.
No, I'm kidding.
But seriously.

[Luxeley]

To the best of my knowledge Blizzard has not removed a single major feature from the game. Naxxramas got a reboot in WOTLK, so did both Zul raids in CATA. They reboot a few of the older dungeons and I'd expect more of the same. There are a lot of things in game that should be outright scrapped for the betterment of the game, but I don't see Blizzard doing it because it won't inject new subs into the game. So it's not worth the time, effort and resources to fix things or remove them that will not help the bottom.

[Jessicka]

There's been a trend of attempting to remove content "for the good of the game" the past couple of expansions. In no case has removing content proven to be good for the game so far as I can see.

- Cataclysm removed 10 mans as casual content, players stopped raiding across the board.
- Cataclysm downsized raiding content to limit production costs. While Firelands was well received with more hardcore raiders, it's generally accepted as too small and unpopular with less dedicate raiders, especially 10 man guilds with small rosters that struggled initially with the tight composition requirements. It had to be nerfed dramatically to stem the bleed of subs. Dragon Soul contends with ToC for worst raid ever.
- Cataclysm removed 5 mans as casual endgame content, had to be reversed quickly and dramatically due to haemorrage of subs.
- MoP 5 mans were cut from gear progression by dailies offering better rewards, people complained about being forced into dailies instead of the 5 mans they wanted to do. No new 5 mans is accepted by Blizzard as a serious mis-step this expansion.
- This tier, dungeons, scenarios and basically any other means of gear progression has been replaced by LFR and unstructured grinding of Timeless Isle. Lack of structure, story and purpose pretty much ensures TI is basically dead by this point. I don't think this tier can last much longer propped up by TI a single Raid instance, and not much else.

So yeah, they have no qualms whatsoever about trying to cut stuff. Cutting stuff is only ever going to land them in trouble, however.

[Kelimbror]

There's been a trend of attempting to remove content "for the good of the game" the past couple of expansions. In no case has removing content proven to be good for the game so far as I can see.

Nothing you listed was actually removing content. No offense, but it's just subjective reception of how they used the same content. The didn't remove raids, they didn't remove dungeons, they didn't remove anything. Using it differently isn't removing something. Yes, not having new 5 mans was a large mistake and they have admitted it. They didn't remove them, however. Features get added to the game, not removed. I've been playing since the game came out and I can't think of one thing that has been straight up removed from the game. About the only thing remotely close is not having 40 man raids anymore, in which case they actually provided two new raid sizes instead of one.

[Zaqwert]

It's obvious the quality of the game has been compromised for financial reasons.

Building the best game possible and building the most profitable game possible aren't always the same thing.

Blizzard over the past 5 years has very strongly drifted into watering down their games to reach a wider audience and make more money.

Makes for good business, 'meh' games.

[Yarathir]

Didn't take long for this to turn into a poorly-veiled 'casual bash' thread, now did it?

[Jessicka]

Nothing you listed was actually removing content. No offense, but it's just subjective reception of how they used the same content. The didn't remove raids, they didn't remove dungeons, they didn't remove anything. Using it differently isn't removing something. Yes, not having new 5 mans was a large mistake and they have admitted it. They didn't remove them, however. Features get added to the game, not removed. I've been playing since the game came out and I can't think of one thing that has been straight up removed from the game. About the only thing remotely close is not having 40 man raids anymore, in which case they actually provided two new raid sizes instead of one.

Scaling back, and taking content away from previous audiences is removing content. Doesn't really matter how you want to dress it up, it's removing content so far as those players who had become accustomed to it were concerned.

Message remains the same, removing content is not good for the game but if it saves development time and resources they will look at ways of doing it.

- - - Updated - - -

It's obvious the quality of the game has been compromised for financial reasons.

Building the best game possible and building the most profitable game possible aren't always the same thing.

Blizzard over the past 5 years has very strongly drifted into watering down their games to reach a wider audience and make more money.

Makes for good business, 'meh' games.

The irony here is that attempts to reach a wider audience bit them right on the ass when they seriously misread the game's populous desires. Seriously thinking huge swaithes, perhaps even a majority of players were within instances they didn't want to do was just plain stupid. Merging 10s and 25s was a mistake. No new 5 mans was a mistake. Harder heroics was a mistake. To cater to more people, you need more variety. There is no way you can get around that.

[-Superman-]

SI guess to better clarify, lets say Blizzard hates a feature they added or regret adding. Can you see Blizzard ever removing said feature for the sake of making the game better?

1. Have Group, Will Travel

2. Auto-learned Flight Paths

3. Eyes of the Beast

[Deleted]

Mass Summon.

[MyCelar]

How?

Blizzard listens to its fans and tries to implement what THEY want and what is BEST for them more-so than most other companies.

Simple. People have no idea what they want.. ><

[Deleted]

I miss my keyring.

[Orcindauh]

blizzard is greedy they will do what brings them more money

If you were a Blizzard CEO, you would do anything that would increase your profit.

Blizzard is a business, if they aren't doing whatever they can to make maximum profit, they're doing it wrong.

As much as I don't like LFR, if I was in blizzard's shoes, I wouldn't remove it either. Too much money comes because of it.

[Yarathir]

1. Have Group, Will Travel

2. Auto-learned Flight Paths

3. Eyes of the Beast

All great features, in my opinion.



Oh-well.



Well, except for the auto flight paths. I think Blizzard should make a system where you have to learn them at least once. After that, the flight paths are account-bound.

[Deleted]

Blizzard listens to its fans and tries to implement what THEY want and what is BEST for them more-so than most other companies.

Blizzard gives what the fans want? Sure, I can agree to that.

What's best for them? Hardly.

[bigrichard]

blizzard is greedy they will do what brings them more money

I'm sure that they pulled in lots of cash from the Diablo 3 RMAH that they are removing, for the betterment of the game.