How is this for the price?

[glo]

I just slammed AMD in my previous post, but the only way I would go I3 over an 8350 is if the only game I was interested in was GW2 and World vs World pvp and I played RTS games competitively. The I3 is just a really bad gamers choice with all the 4-8 core games coming up and AMD mantle on the horizon. I7 over 8350? all day long. I5 K model and a OC over 8350? Yup. I3? No. A year or two ago? Might be better advice.

IPC on the 8350 @ stock hovers around Nehalem levels from 2008. Sandy Bridge i3-2100 @3.1Ghz matches it even:

http://anandtech.com/bench/product/289?vs=697

Unless you can randomly provide game development benches through a crystal ball showing future release's performance, it's bad and unfounded advice. Also, Mantle has nothing to do with low level CPU optimization.

[Deleted]

Yup, here's my 5 year old veteran pitted against AMD's finest:

http://anandtech.com/bench/product/47?vs=697

Though of course mine has a lead with +1GHz OC.

[mauserr]

Well, ditch the SSD & get a quad core cpu, it is DEFINITELY going to be much of a better investition for the future than getting a dual core cpu now, in so many ways... Besides, sandy/ivy/haswells i5-i7 are still better than an i3, whatever the model.

[glo]

Well, ditch the SSD & get a quad core cpu, it is DEFINITELY going to be much of a better investition for the future than getting a dual core cpu now, in so many ways... Besides, sandy/ivy/haswells i5-i7 are still better than an i3, whatever the model.

Ditching a $100 SSD isn't going to make up the cost of an i5-4670K + cooler.

[mauserr]

Ditching a $100 SSD isn't going to make up the cost of an i5-4670K + cooler.

He doesn't necessarily need the 4670K, he can go for a 3570K, it is still better than the FX-8320...

[Deleted]

Or go for 4670k without an aftermarket cooler, and buy one with SSD later on when budget allows.

[glo]

He doesn't necessarily need the 4670K, he can go for a 3570K, it is still better than the FX-8320...

That i3-4130 is going to outperform a 3570 in most games. Regardless, it's an old platform with inferior features compared to Z87.

- - - Updated - - -

Or go for 4670k without an aftermarket cooler, and buy one with SSD later on when budget allows.

But really, then you're talking a proper motherboard for overclocking which is going to run another $50 premium over what was in that build. I don't know what his absolute max budget is, but mine was already over what he wanted.

$150 motherboard + $240 i5 = $390
$80 linked Z87 + i3 + SSD = $310

So if they're willing to tack on another 80 bucks, it would make sense. If not, he's gonna have to cut other corners and get a crappy GPU and PSU.

[Deleted]

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i5-3570K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($199.99 @ Memory Express)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($29.79 @ DirectCanada)
Motherboard: ASRock Z77 Extreme3 ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($74.99 @ Canada Computers)
Memory: Patriot Signature 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($61.99 @ Newegg Canada)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($62.95 @ Vuugo)
Video Card: Asus Radeon R9 270X 2GB Video Card ($211.60 @ DirectCanada)
Case: BitFenix Merc Alpha (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case ($42.99 @ Canada Computers)
Power Supply: Antec High Current Gamer 620W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($49.99 @ Canada Computers)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 - OEM (64-bit) ($89.79 @ DirectCanada)
Total: $824.08
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-11-19 08:25 EST-0500)

[deathjester]

IPC on the 8350 @ stock hovers around Nehalem levels from 2008. Sandy Bridge i3-2100 @3.1Ghz matches it even:

http://anandtech.com/bench/product/289?vs=697

Unless you can randomly provide game development benches through a crystal ball showing future release's performance, it's bad and unfounded advice. Also, Mantle has nothing to do with low level CPU optimization.

BF4 the I3 is horrible. It uses the frostbite 3 engine.
http://www.bf4blog.com/battlefield-4...pu-benchmarks/

New Dragon Age, Mass Effect, Star Wars games, all use Frostbite 3. You can cry about Mantle here. I could care less. It has nothing to do with Mantle. It has to do with the GAME ENGINE.
http://techreport.com/news/25651/man...vendor-support

Planetside 2 was just optimized for 8 cores (this engine is going to be used on the PS4). Everquest Next will use this engine.

There I provided a crystal ball for you. I NEVER recommended a AMD CPU over an I5. Over an I3? Sure. I3's are GARBAGE for the new games coming out. I mean yeah if all you still play is WoW, the AMD sucks. It also blows in GW2 WvW. In all the newer games is is twice as fast as the i3. I haven't owned a AMD cpu for a decade, and I don't plan to anytime soon. That said? If he lives in an area where the i5 and AMD are FAR apart on price? It isn't that horrible a choice depending on what games he plays. If you live near a Microcenter? There is no way in hell you should even consider an AMD. You should be getting an I5.

[n0cturnal]

The difference between the old generation i3 and fx8350 is only about 20%, even less if we are talking haswell i3.

http://translate.google.com/translat...2F4%23pagehead

[deathjester]

The difference between the old generation i3 and fx8350 is only about 20%, even less if we are talking haswell i3.

http://translate.google.com/translat...2F4%23pagehead

Look at the 1080p benchmarks. The 1440p benchmarks are GPU bottlenecked.

Add to that the 8350 overclocks, the I3 is not unlocked. Again I would never buy an 8350 and I sure as hell wouldn't buy a i3. To recommend a i3 over an 8350 is just silly. 46 fps lows in a fps vs 58 is a big deal.

As I posted there are new games in dev NOW, that are HUGE titles that the 8350 will blow the i3 away in. An I3 is not very good in planetside 2. Everquest Next uses the same engine. WoW could run on a toaster and you have skype/vent/web open while playing half the time in which the 8350 will be about even with a i3 due to more cores. An 8350 will be fine for WoW. Guild Wars 2 WvW? That is where a 3 core game really pushes how fast you are clock for clock. For that game it is pretty much I5/I7 or bust.

[n0cturnal]

Look at the 1080p benchmarks. The 1440p benchmarks are GPU bottlenecked.

Add to that the 8350 overclocks, the I3 is not unlocked. Again I would never buy an 8350 and I sure as hell wouldn't buy a i3. To recommend a i3 over an 8350 is just silly. 46 fps lows in a fps vs 58 is a big deal.

As I posted there are new games in dev NOW, that are HUGE titles that the 8350 will blow the i3 away in. An I3 is not very good in planetside 2. Everquest Next uses the same engine. WoW could run on a toaster and you have skype/vent/web open while playing half the time in which the 8350 will be about even with a i3 due to more cores. An 8350 will be fine for WoW. Guild Wars 2 WvW? That is where a 3 core game really pushes how fast you are clock for clock. For that game it is pretty much I5/I7 or bust.

It really depends on the budget and purpose of the computer, he doesn't mention any of those games and you can get the i3 and a motherboard for half the cost of and fx8350 and a motherboard.

[deathjester]

It really depends on the budget and purpose of the computer, he doesn't mention any of those games and you can get the i3 and a motherboard for half the cost of and fx8350 and a motherboard.

?? Are you looking at the 4 thread i3 or the 2 thread i3. The only i3 that comes close is the 4 thread which is about the same price as a 8320 (which is a lower binned 8350 and they all will oc well above 8350 stocks). It isn't a 4 core. It is a pseudo 4 core (like an I7), but those threads are what lets it do well in some games. It is nowhere close to a real 4 core (I5) though.

You want 4 REAL cores or up for the next generation of games. It is just the way it is. The I5 can be had on a lower end board with a smaller power supply which makes the price close to a 8350 (lower in the case of microcenter). That said. Different countries have different prices. There are some cases the 8 core amd's aren't horrible.If I was on an extreme budget I would probably get the 6300 I guess. It will do better then the I3 in newer games and you can run it on a really cheap board.

The I7's are going to be about 20 percent faster then the I5's in the next gen of games being developed now. The I5 will still beat the pants off the 8350 with a slight OC though while using half the power and a I5 is all you really need for YEARS to come.

The I3? Like the e8xxx duo cores had a good run. Eventually the lack of cores/threads just do them in and that time is fast approaching or HERE depending on what games you play.

[glo]

?? Are you looking at the 4 thread i3 or the 2 thread i3. The only i3 that comes close is the 4 thread which is about the same price as a 8320 (which is a lower binned 8350 and they all will oc well above 8350 stocks). It isn't a 4 core. It is a pseudo 4 core (like an I7), but those threads are what lets it do well in some games. It is nowhere close to a real 4 core (I5) though.

You want 4 REAL cores or up for the next generation of games. It is just the way it is. The I5 can be had on a lower end board with a smaller power supply which makes the price close to a 8350 (lower in the case of microcenter). That said. Different countries have different prices. There are some cases the 8 core amd's aren't horrible.If I was on an extreme budget I would probably get the 6300 I guess. It will do better then the I3 in newer games and you can run it on a really cheap board.

The I7's are going to be about 20 percent faster then the I5's in the next gen of games being developed now. The I5 will still beat the pants off the 8350 with a slight OC though while using half the power and a I5 is all you really need for YEARS to come.

The I3? Like the e8xxx duo cores had a good run. Eventually the lack of cores/threads just do them in and that time is fast approaching or HERE depending on what games you play.

All i3s have hyperthreading...

Also note the 3220 is clocked lower and performs 10% worse than a has well i3. Look at those benches and adjust those percentages and the 4130 would be right there with it. Then factor in the fact that it will smash AMD in every other dual threaded game and it's a no brainer.

The 8350 is a poor choice no matter which way you slice it.

[BetrayedOf52]

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i5-3570K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($199.99 @ Memory Express)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($29.79 @ DirectCanada)
Motherboard: ASRock Z77 Extreme3 ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($74.99 @ Canada Computers)
Memory: Patriot Signature 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($61.99 @ Newegg Canada)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($62.95 @ Vuugo)
Video Card: Asus Radeon R9 270X 2GB Video Card ($211.60 @ DirectCanada)
Case: BitFenix Merc Alpha (Black) ATX Mid Tower Case ($42.99 @ Canada Computers)
Power Supply: Antec High Current Gamer 620W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply ($49.99 @ Canada Computers)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 8.1 - OEM (64-bit) ($89.79 @ DirectCanada)
Total: $824.08
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-11-19 08:25 EST-0500)

I could probably afford this over time. How would this run most games? It looks solid to me.

[deathjester]

I could probably afford this over time. How would this run most games? It looks solid to me.

Very Very well.

I5 and a r 270 (rebranded 7870's) will max 1080 p on just about every game, and the only games they don't max? They might with Mantle which makes its debut next month on BF4.

New Dragon Age, Mass Effect, Star Wars Battlefront will all be mantle releases.

It will also run the older games MUCH better then the 8350 (which people are raging about on this thread) that aren't well optimized. Things like World vs World in Guild wars 2, Dolphin Wii emulation RTS games where IPC is really stressed.

You simply can't go wrong with the I5. You CAN go wrong with the AMD's depending on what game you play.

Get the I5, you will be much happier with it then the 8350. It will never be slower then the 8350 and in some current games it blows the amd away.

The only reason to get a I7 is if you stream. Only reason I got the i7 haswell is it was 199.99 at microcenter atm. Yes it will be faster then the I5 in newer games (like 20 percent since the I7 is really a quad with HT), but the I5 hits the magical 60 fps which is all that matter (in before someone yells at me about 120 hz plus monitors, when they don't even have ips and the colors look like washed out crap, and the newer games wont run at 100 fps except on horrible looking graphics settings or EXTREME gpu setups lol).

[Blupparen]

Ditch the AMD CPU & mobo, go for a haswell with an unlocked core so you can OC it. Might sound fanboyish, but if you plan on playing games and expect extra performance, intel's quad cores are better than amd's eight. However, if you plan to do other stuff on it such as designing, rendering and all these things - go for the AMD. DO NOT go for Windows 8.1 - I'd rather go for Win7 Ultimate x64.

On my old junk I can play wow on ultra, 1920 x 1080 with just environment detail & foliage turned to low(don't see a reason to keep it on ultra, all it does is wasting your FPS that could be spent on something else) and I have no lag when 10m raiding. C2Quad q8200 @ 2,59 ghz, gtx460 1gb OC'd higher than stock gtx470 and just 4gb of 1,33 ghz ram. With the PC you've listed us here I guess you'll easily run 25mans on the highest possible details with no lag at all, hell, as far as I'm concerned you'll even be able to record it flawlessly. As for other games, I can even run BF3 on ~40-50 fps on ultra, AC4 BF ~30-50 fps depending on where you at, mid-high details.

You got to remember - even with a beast hardware your PC might be slow as fuck if you don't take care of your software - make sure to give it a CClean once in a while to keep your registry clean, the same goes for your HDD, do not hesitate to defrag it once in a while as well.

Windows 8.1 is fine, no reason to get windows 7 unless you already have it. Install a start menu and you are good to go.

[Deleted]

Why do people insist on avoiding Windows 8.1

Yes, they failed at distributing the 8 to 8.1 upgrade in store, but the OS itself is mint. Being forced to tablet UI is a misconception.

And rest of it is just better than 7. For example while raiding my minimum FPS got noticeably better, and the OS is super fluid to use.

[deathjester]

Why do people insist on avoiding Windows 8.1

Yes, they failed at distributing the 8 to 8.1 upgrade in store, but the OS itself is mint. Being forced to tablet UI is a misconception.

And rest of it is just better than 7. For example while raiding my minimum FPS got noticeably better, and the OS is super fluid to use.

If it is a new build and you can't transfer 7? 8 is fine. If it is not? There is no reason whatsoever to upgrade to win 7. Direct X sucks and low level api's are coming. The "ram tiling" is not done by the OS it is done by the API. Mantle and the sure to come Nvidia "mantle" also have it or will have it, as well as better performance that simply isn't possible in a higher level api.

Win 7 and win 8 performance on a low level api will be exact. Going to Win 8 is not going to fix a badly maintained PC. Maintenance will. If your performance went up on a NON DIRECT X 11.1/2 game like WoW from 7 to 8? something was f'd up. Add to that Win 8 has a memory leak which absolutely sucks. It will get fixed, but it isn't "awesome". There is one game out right now that even uses the new direct X and it will run better on mantle next month. Spending 100-150 dollars on a new direct x for one game is silly, especially when you could grab another video card instead. Low level API's are coming. Performance will be console like. Ding Dong the direct x witch is dead.

Hell if we are lucky they will deliver on their promise of mantle on linux/mac os. Barebones Linux will be the "ultimate gaming os".

[glo]

If it is a new build and you can't transfer 7? 8 is fine. If it is not? There is no reason whatsoever to upgrade to win 7. Direct X sucks and low level api's are coming. The "ram tiling" is not done by the OS it is done by the API. Mantle and the sure to come Nvidia "mantle" also have it or will have it, as well as better performance that simply isn't possible in a higher level api.

Win 7 and win 8 performance on a low level api will be exact. Going to Win 8 is not going to fix a badly maintained PC. Maintenance will. If your performance went up on a NON DIRECT X 11.1/2 game like WoW from 7 to 8? something was f'd up. Add to that Win 8 has a memory leak which absolutely sucks. It will get fixed, but it isn't "awesome". There is one game out right now that even uses the new direct X and it will run better on mantle next month. Spending 100-150 dollars on a new direct x for one game is silly, especially when you could grab another video card instead. Low level API's are coming. Performance will be console like. Ding Dong the direct x witch is dead.

Hell if we are lucky they will deliver on their promise of mantle on linux/mac os. Barebones Linux will be the "ultimate gaming os".

Windows 7 is inferior, that's why you don't buy it over Windows 8. It's slower (especially booting and shutting down), poorly optimized for SSDs compared to 8, more resource hungry and will not support newer versions of DX.

Simply saying "lol Mantle is coming out so it doesn't matter" makes zero sense. Not every game is going to use it. Also, unless you can cite some reliable source showing widespread memory leaks on W8, that statement is pure nonsense. I haven't had any such issues, nor have I seen anyone report similar things.

In closing, Windows 8 is better than Windows 7 for the same price. There's no reason to buy an outdated, nearly 5 year old OS.

- - - Updated - - -

I could probably afford this over time. How would this run most games? It looks solid to me.

It's using outdated parts for no apparent reason. The 4670K is what you should be buying if you go that route. Seagate HDDs are also poor. If you want your money best spent, and want to skip an SSD, take my build and substitute in the 4670K/ASRock Extreme4 Z87/Hyper 212 EVO.