Remove Elitists From Raids and Battlegrounds

[Saurox]

What is worse... being negative and criticising people? or being a terrible player who wants to do 50k dps when doing 150k is the norm and waste everyone else's time?

LFR is for everyone, and if you are sitting there expecting other people to do the work for you, you should and you most probably will get criticised. If you don't like it, invest some time researching how to play your class so that you are an effective team member and not a leech.

Aim of the game is to do something together as a team, that is impossible if you are a bad player and are expecting to get carried regardless of how many hours you spend playing the game.

[Terridon]

I swear, it's like I'm talking to a wall. Rather than admit that you were wrong and couldn't see the obvious implication, you're willing to argue this into the ground. Here's what I said before you called me out for simply saying hindrance:

Why you can't grasp this is beyond me, but I'm done. It's pointless to discuss this with you because you're one of those people who can't admit when they're wrong. So if you want your "victory" for making me give up at the argument, here you go. I'd rather not risk the infraction that will shortly follow if I continue.

Kinda gave up on him. He refuses to read what i say. Considered to post your entire conversation and highlight his mistakes, but he wouldn't read it and would change subject again

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

I swear, it's like I'm talking to a wall. Rather than admit that you were wrong and couldn't see the obvious implication, you're willing to argue this into the ground. Here's what I said before you called me out for simply saying hindrance:

Why you can't grasp this is beyond me, but I'm done. It's pointless to discuss this with you because you're one of those people who can't admit when they're wrong. So if you want your "victory" for making me give up at the argument, here you go. I'd rather not risk the infraction that will shortly follow if I continue.

Thats fine.

[Sithalos]

Why remove anyone?

Casuals don't wanna run with elitists...

Elitists don't wanna run with casuals...

So pair them together, and keep them apart.

Put all the bads together in one group, put all the "elitists" together in the other group. Problem solved.

Except for the fact the bads wouldn't kill a single boss ever again without being carried. Then they'd complain about THAT and demand to be paired with elitists, but won't allow them to point out the fact bad people are bad. Sigh.

Welcome to World of Warcraft.

[Lime]

It doesn't really matter Lime. Do you ever wipe in raids? Yes? Well guess whos fault it is? The people you are defending. Its sad to be in an LFR and hit enrage timers. Its sad to see adds not die... then you look at DPS meters and 7 peopel are around 30k just auto attacking. So yes, they are a hindrance. Semantics don't matter here, because there wouldn't be a problem if these people actually played the game they claim they want to play. Thats all there is to it. People don't try very hard or slack, the group wipes, some guy gets fed up and complains.. then said slacker makes stupid posts like this hating on "elitists" who just expect people to pull their weight.

#nomoreslackers
#nomoreafkers
#nomoreleeches

The only LFR wipes I've been apart of are the ones where the group as a whole didn't understand the mechanics. Guess what? I was perfectly fine with it. People will learn. Did we have some afk'ers? Yup. Did they matter? Nope, the boss had >60% HP left.

[Terridon]

What is worse... being negative and criticising people? or being a terrible player who wants to do 50k dps when doing 150k is the norm and waste everyone else's time?

LFR is for everyone, and if you are sitting there expecting other people to do the work for you, you should and you most probably will get criticised. If you don't like it, invest some time researching how to play your class so that you are an effective team member and not a leech.

Aim of the game is to do something together as a team, that is impossible if you are a bad player and are expecting to get carried regardless of how many hours you spend playing the game.

The point isn't, and never was if it's okay to criticize people, but if it's okay to go "I'M GOING TO ANALLY RAPE YOUR MOTHER YOU FUCKING LOSER WTF IS THAT DPS I FUCKING HOPE YOU FALL DEAD!!"

That was btw a quote from memory. Now tell me if you feel this is a constructive way to tell people that they might be able to do better.
People go "30k dps" because it's so low that nobody can argue that they're afking. In reality you will sometimes see some ungemmed people at 496 ilvl doing 50k, which just is some 20-30% below their max.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

You're outright lying.
Show me a screenshot of that ever happening. You can't because you've only heard other bad players coming with that claim. It might have happened a few times, but out of a million LFRs that's bound to happen. But you never even came remotely close to that

What am I lying about(that you have proof of) and what would you like a screenshot of?

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The only LFR wipes I've been apart of are the ones where the group as a whole didn't understand the mechanics. Guess what? I was perfectly fine with it. People will learn. Did we have some afk'ers? Yup. Did they matter? Nope, the boss had >60% HP left.

You're a very lucky person then.

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Kinda gave up on him. He refuses to read what i say. Considered to post your entire conversation and highlight his mistakes, but he wouldn't read it and would change subject again

I read it, you just weren't reading the correct post. I also never changed the subject.

[Thirdegree]

Why should the 95% majority of casuals have to tolerate the 5% of elitists? Maybe they should change queues to be "Hardcore" or "Casual". Then we can filter them as soon as they join the LF(whatever).

Literally everyone would click hardcore.

[Marxman]

Why should the 95% majority of casuals have to tolerate the 5% of elitists?

Because if that 5% didn't exist, you'd likely never complete an LFR or Flex pug.

I'm an elitist. I have very low tolerance for idiots. If you'd like me to carry you, I'm glad to do it... just stay out of the way and at least sort-of pull your own weight. That's not asking too much.

I rarely rage at bad players (though I do openly mock them among my friends), but if you're dragging the group down due to lack of knowledge or just lack of effort... get out. By playing an online game, you are agreeing to abide by the rules of the community. Don't be terrible, don't be an asshole, or pay the consequences.

[purebalance]

Since the OP wants to remove the first person to yell at someone I suppose I propose to remove the first person to make a ridiculous mistake or terrible healing/dps/tanking. I mean people who yell TYPICALLY have a reason they did.

[Terridon]

What am I lying about(that you have proof of) and what would you like a screenshot of?

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You're a very lucky person then.

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I read it, you just weren't reading the correct post. I also never changed the subject.

Read previous post. I found out you can't read, so not going to say things several times over again as i did with our last subjects. Go back into your cave or learn to read back. It's pretty clear if you use more effort on understanding, instead of denying.

[Lime]

You're a very lucky person then.

Not really, 1%-20% wipes are pretty uncommon compared to most. Most wipes occur because players dont understand the mechanics, not because of a DPS issue, hence while they'll usually wipe earlier on. I'm sure Blizzard foresaw that which is why they made the bosses so easy. LFR is somewhat similar to how MC was, you only needed ~30 people for the raid, but you could have 10 extra (40). Guess what, people afk'd that too.

[Dwill]

The only LFR wipes I've been apart of are the ones where the group as a whole didn't understand the mechanics. Guess what? I was perfectly fine with it. People will learn. Did we have some afk'ers? Yup. Did they matter? Nope, the boss had >60% HP left.

That's anecdotal evidence in its purest form. It may not have happened to you and that's fine by me, you're lucky for that. But the reality of things is that while things might be exaggerated (30k dps exists but they are pretty rare), < 70k-80k DPS are aplenty and most of them can't do mechanics either which makes it a double hassle to deal with.

Yes, being insulting towards other is not okay but mentioning and pointing out that there are afk'ers, people with a terrible performance is okay and actually needed. It's not okay to waste everyone's time because you just can't be bothered doing extremely simple stuff or just play the game decently.

[Deleted]

I support the idea, but not the implementation, I'm not an elitist, but I use some bad language in game, a lot. Not always directed at other people, just in general use. So I dot think auto kicking anyone who swears is a great, considering we are all fucking adults. Auto kick for too much use of bloody caps lock though, if someone is going to rage at me, I'd rather they did it with smaller text.

[Terridon]

Literally everyone would click hardcore.

I wonder if we would get a case where the hardcore would click "casual" because those that truly only want to be carried would always click "hardcore" ;D

[Lime]

That's anecdotal evidence in its purest form. It may not have happened to you and that's fine by me, you're lucky for that. But the reality of things is that while things might be exaggerated (30k dps exists but they are pretty rare), < 70k-80k DPS are aplenty and most of them can't do mechanics either which makes it a double hassle to deal with.

Yes, being insulting towards other is not okay but mentioning and pointing out that there are afk'ers, people with a terrible performance is okay and actually needed. It's not okay to waste everyone's time because you just can't be bothered doing extremely simple stuff or just play the game decently.

Anecdotal? He ASKED me if I've ever been part of a wipe and I responded with reasoning. Did you bother to read his post?

[Radio]

A text filter would be virtually impossible to get right, either (or both):
- it catches too much and people get kicked while not actually attacking someone ("Haha I'm such a fucking noob lol" - player using self-deprecating humour)
- is too game-able and people can get away with murder through clever usage of words. ("Remove yourself from the gene pool." - player using a sequence of words which cannot be filtered easily algorithmically)

Which is why blizzard gives players tools to report and kick. Now, the reporting and kicking tools aren't perfect (sometimes not good enough, sometimes abusable) but it at least allows players to self moderate, and the people in the best position to judge whether a player is being an arsehole or not are the players reading it at that moment.


Now, OP, I understand that you are referring to elitism via its textbook definition, but you seem to be constantly linking the term to people who finish the content early or are much better than you in your posts despite the use of your definition. Often I find that the loudest people in LFR runs after a wipe are not the people that would not be top-end players. Half the time after a wipe you get a legion of players screaming about the wrong thing (blaming the tank/healer for reasons out of their control is a common one) and usually that same legion of players are in horribly mismatched gear and their damage/healing contribution is somewhere between "giving the boss a massage" and "tickling the boss". I've had a wing 3 LFR run where the loudest player was a medium geared prot paladin who couldn't hold threat on bosses and insisted on calling everyone Fagmuffins or faggots.

With players who are actually good, if they offer commentary after a wipe, it's more likely to be constructive because they are success-driven and are better at spotting reasons for wipes and how to fix them. For the 'good players' who go on an unconstructive elitist rant after a wipe, it's usually the kind of player who only succeeds in heroic raiding due to their groups overall success (in even the top guilds, not everyone is abso-fucking-lutely amazing). It may also be someone who's just been pushed past their limits after the 10th stack of determination on a bad day (yes, top raiders have lives and can have bad days too!).


To get to the point, what we really need to clean from WoW is the try-hard category. These players are the kinds who yell at the group after being the cause for the wipe themselves, who yell at their team in Dota 2 for being scrubs when they're ignoring teamfights as a non-hard carry, who scream at their team in CoD as they play Rambo across the map and don't actually support their teammates. Or my favourite, the guy who AFKs the entire first LFR attempt then alt-tabs back in after the wipe and goes "OMG WTF NOOBS!". The try-hard category also happens to be the most toxic, they're the source of 99% of the filth that goes on in LFR chat, and without them true casuals (lots of try-hards like to insist that they're casual) and hardcores can simply get the job done without a hitch.

The thing about try-hards is, to casuals they appear as hardcore elitists (try-hards tend to play up their own worth and all), and to hardcores they appear as casual scrubs (when a hardcore confronts a try-hard they usually default to "I have a life." etc). Without this segment of the playerbase, there'd be far less reason for this fucking acidic resentment between people in this game and people would enjoy each others company far more.

Oh yeah, and get rid of fucking autoattack AFKers too, blizzard needs to track active time while alive for christs sake.

[Terridon]

That's anecdotal evidence in its purest form. It may not have happened to you and that's fine by me, you're lucky for that. But the reality of things is that while things might be exaggerated (30k dps exists but they are pretty rare), < 70k-80k DPS are aplenty and most of them can't do mechanics either which makes it a double hassle to deal with.

Yes, being insulting towards other is not okay but mentioning and pointing out that there are afk'ers, people with a terrible performance is okay and actually needed. It's not okay to waste everyone's time because you just can't be bothered doing extremely simple stuff or just play the game decently.

But lfr is made to be done with that dps. 70-80k i mean.
That rogue i talked about that is the first in ages i've seen that actually hit 30k dps got kicked with something along the lines of "<name> only does 30k dps, and did it on previous boss too". Then there came a "Can we kick him? He's just afking", and he went out in a minute. No yelling or anything. I'm fine with people being kicked in an ordered manner.

[critterkiller]

In my experience, elitists are the ones that are trying to push the team into performing. they are not cursing or harrassing, they are the ones that ask a healer or dps to join him in capturing a flag etc. On the other hand, the unpaitent 12 year old or whatever is the one that is crying like a little baby in the raid chat because he feels like he needs to be heard, and that is why the "elitiest" quote fits, because they call themself an elitist but in the end they are most often the ones that does the leasst amount of effort to acctually win the bloody match, and rather goes and dies in the middle....

Just my food for thought

[Deleted]

I'm pretty sure I e never wiped in lfr due to hitting enrage timer, I've had groups with bad dps, but never actually died on enrage timer. Most common cause of wipe I see is people not caring for tactics and thinking they can just steamroll every boss while ignoring everything else. And people singing for healers when they're not healers, got into a soo the other day where 2 of the healers had no healing gear, we wiped before anyone noticed.