2h Frost and stat priority changes

[Deleted]

I recently dusted my 2h frost DK. When i played last time, stat priority was haste>crit>mastery. Now it's Crit>mastery>haste.

Is this just because guides are updated for new itemlevels? I have barely 500ilvl, which stats i should go for? I don't see point in simcrafting as i'm not going to even LFR, but do not like playing "wrong" way.

[russykh]

I believe there is a point where it goes from haste being best to crit, but I dont know what it is (sorry). IIRC it's because at lower haste levels you get the benefit of haste increasing your attack speed (so more KM procs) and regen rate, but once you get to the point where you're regenerating runes quick enough to always have buttons to push, the value drops a lot, and higher level gear hits these amounts without too much trouble usually. Basically, wail on a training dummy for a bit - if youre getting spaces in your rotation where you're waiting for runes, get more haste.

That's my understanding anyway, I could be wrong.

[Praxis]

There are a few changes that lowered the value of haste this patch, one of which was the new Glyph of Regenerative Magic, and another being the Evil Eye of Galakras (cooldown reduction trinket) that it's assumed you'll have in higher ilvl gear. Since those two things drastically increase the frequency with which you can use AMS to soak up RP, the relative value of haste is lower. That said, at your item level, you should just keep whatever you had going the last time you played. If you want to be 100% accurate (or close to it), use SimulationCraft to get your own stat weights. :]

[Raikh]

Haste > crit > mastery for playing with Unholy Blight or lower ilvl (until ToT hc or so (540+))

For playing with Plague Leech AND high ilvl (above 540) you go for crit > mastery > haste

dps difference between both variants is literally zero ST with the latter favoring steady AoE situations to some degree. (so BiS UB + haste and BiS PL + crit are equal)

Sidenote: Galakras does infact not devlaue haste itself, it even envalues it becauae you have to spend more often a frost rune on Pillar of Frost, which means less runes on globals. Only if you can manage to use the decreased cd from ams very effectively Galakras' devalues haste per ams. Plague leech in comb with ams usage (on normal cd) are the main contributors to devalue haste.
Nothing important for the very basics, just @ the comment above.

[SlippyCheeze]

If you want to be 100% accurate (or close to it), use SimulationCraft to get your own stat weights. :]

Forgive the slight detour, but what are the current recommendations for configuring SimCraft to get solid numbers for, I guess, general use? I have been tending toward the LightMovement or HeavyMovement bosses to generate weights that are kind sorta like the reality of SoO flex/normal raiding; is that the best choice?

Also, do you usually include hit/exp in the stat weights it calculates for 2H and/or DW frost? I assume that there is some value to exp past the 7.5 cap for DW since it lands more hits -- even if that is usually going to be low compared to crit, mastery and friends. I have usually turned them off, thrown in a value higher than anything else (eg: 2 for hit/exp to cap, then drop to 0/0.2, with normal values in the 0.5 to 1.5 range). I figured that I want to hit that cap no matter what else, so simulating the exact weight didn't really change my behaviour at all...

[Praxis]

Forgive the slight detour, but what are the current recommendations for configuring SimCraft to get solid numbers for, I guess, general use? I have been tending toward the LightMovement or HeavyMovement bosses to generate weights that are kind sorta like the reality of SoO flex/normal raiding; is that the best choice?

Also, do you usually include hit/exp in the stat weights it calculates for 2H and/or DW frost? I assume that there is some value to exp past the 7.5 cap for DW since it lands more hits -- even if that is usually going to be low compared to crit, mastery and friends. I have usually turned them off, thrown in a value higher than anything else (eg: 2 for hit/exp to cap, then drop to 0/0.2, with normal values in the 0.5 to 1.5 range). I figured that I want to hit that cap no matter what else, so simulating the exact weight didn't really change my behaviour at all...

I usually use the Light Movement profile. I'll run others now and then to see what the difference is like, but that's given me the best results. Keep in mind that any profile that increases uptime on the boss is going to increase the value of haste (running Patchwerk sims can sometimes give you haste > mastery for DW, which is pretty unrealistic).

For hit, since Simcraft doesn't calculate "hit past 7.5%" as such, I take whatever value it gives me and plug that into "hit to 7.5%" on AMR, then for "hit past 7.5%," I'll put something in that's a fair bit below other secondary stats (My current weights have Mastery at 4, Crit at 2.4, and Haste at 2.2 - I've got hit past 7.5% set to 1. For reference, Strength is 5.2. The mastery/crit/haste/str numbers are directly from my most recent simming.).

@Raikh, while you're correct that if you don't use AMS well the Galakras trinket doesn't negatively impact haste, I believe that stat weights, guides and such are usually made with the idea that the person playing will use their cooldowns appropriately.

[Raikh]

Forgive the slight detour, but what are the current recommendations for configuring SimCraft to get solid numbers for, I guess, general use? I have been tending toward the LightMovement or HeavyMovement bosses to generate weights that are kind sorta like the reality of SoO flex/normal raiding; is that the best choice?

Also, do you usually include hit/exp in the stat weights it calculates for 2H and/or DW frost? I assume that there is some value to exp past the 7.5 cap for DW since it lands more hits -- even if that is usually going to be low compared to crit, mastery and friends. I have usually turned them off, thrown in a value higher than anything else (eg: 2 for hit/exp to cap, then drop to 0/0.2, with normal values in the 0.5 to 1.5 range). I figured that I want to hit that cap no matter what else, so simulating the exact weight didn't really change my behaviour at all...

High movement isn't really existent in SoO, even light movement isn't there all the times.
For simple stat config, i would use patchwerk or maybe light movement if it would want to simulate situations where you have downtime due to extra jobs/tactic specifics on bosses like thok, siegecrafter and nazgrim.

The fight specifics are too complex and differ greatly from something like light/heavy movement of simcraft which makes them rarely accurate. And for most encounter you will have 100% uptime, with some cleaving in or so, which doesn't have a great impact anyway.

dw white hit as the value of like 0,6-0.7 times of haste/crit (depending on ilvl etc.) on ST, but has no effect on cleave AE or anything, so it is actually a bit less, about half of the other stats aside mastery.
Wouldn't care too much about it.

edit:
@Praxis
Its simply not always possible to use ams on reduced cd, current encounter have a good bunch of AoE for it, but also rnd dmg. Sha of pride pre 30% is mostly every minute without getting the debuff and keeping it for a while.
Nazgrim absorb can lead to accidental suicide, Malkorok aura sometimes grants no rp for whatever reason and if you don't run into the voids all the times its frequency drops. Spoils depending on tactics and kill speed, thok is again random dmg, garroshs whirl comes like every 45 sec and so on.
Also especially older bosses tend to have overall less well absorbable dmg on a reduced cd.
Also simcraft without customizing it doesn't take this into account, and that are numbers many make themselves rely on.

[Praxis]

@Praxis
Its simply not always possible to use ams on reduced cd, current encounter have a good bunch of AoE for it, but also rnd dmg. Sha of pride pre 30% is mostly every minute without getting the debuff and keeping it for a while.
-SNIP!-
Also simcraft without customizing it doesn't take this into account, and that are numbers many make themselves rely on.

That's all true. I guess at the end of the day we're both right, and it ends up breaking even. Or at least I think it makes more sense to say that, lest this turn into a big statistical circle jerk like the DPS thread. >_>

[SlippyCheeze]

Thanks so much for the simc advice. I figure anything I do is likely to have less margin for error than my screw-ups in button pressing anyway, but you gotta try, right?

[Deleted]

Okay, thanks for answers. I'm going with old haste>whatever, though i can get barely 6k haste anyway in my gear lol. I just don't like gimping my shrine afking.

[Deleted]

I wanna add that with every freaking piece of gear you get from SoO your stats weights can go up and down. Its just crazy x)
But basicaly yeah - SoO trinkets (galakras and thok more specific) plus the reworked plague leech plus the new AMS glyph and the SoO mechanics make it so that haste is your worst stat this tier. The only diffrence is what "sub"spec you play - 2h or DW.
Other thing is that SoO mechanis and DK skills and glyph combos can allow you to ignore some, if not most, of the boss mechanics, in witch other melle classes can end up dead, that the fights become easy "Light Movement".
I especaily love that part, because frost dk might not be the best melle dps class in the game, but their survaivability can be very valuable. You know - "dead dps do zero damage"