Study confirms the idea that schools should have armed/trained security.

[Cthulhu 2020]

You're not changing the gun culture right now. I recognize it is part of the problem, but there is an absolute fanaticism about gun rights and an over-saturation of guns in media.

As Ruke pointed out, it's that kind of defeatist attitude. You can make gradual shifts in the culture if you try. Of course you won't change it overnight.

[RicardoZ]

Has anyone mentioned that hiring security guards for every school is going to drain their funding which every school pretty much already complains about, all because of this gun debate?

Not if you do what my county did and just change a couple of the county police to "school beat" instead of patrolling the streets. Didn't cost a dime more than the cops were already making and none of it came from the schools' budgets.

But honestly, I'm not sure that it will really stop the epidemic of school shootings. Most of these kids commit suicide when they're done or out of ammo anyway, so I'm not sure the prospect of death at the hands of an armed police officer is really going to deter them from carrying out their violent fantasies. I'm not against the idea, because it can obviously put a quick end to it and save a bunch of lives, I just don't think it's going to solve the underlying problems.

[Deleted]

School shootings are such a miniscule part of the overall picture of gun violence in the USA that it's an exercise in ignorance to judge our gun laws by a few random, isolated incidents. When I was a kid I was more worried about getting jacked for my shoes or money while walking down the street than I was about getting offed by some psycho nerd.

Well TBF the topic is about school shootings

[Cthulhu 2020]

This isn't supposed to be a single study that trumps all. Instead, it's a study that took real data and analyzed the facts from said data. Data that supports the idea of having someone on campus who is trained to be a first responder in the event of a shooting, to react in the time between things starting and the time police can get there.

Then your OP is misleading, as the study confirms nothing.

Virginia had armed campus guards and that didn't do jack.

[Doktor Faustus]

Stand back, and see how absurd the state of the USA has become.

Armed guards in schools?

How is that the normal behaviour of a healthy society?

[eodusaf]

Exactly very few and that's a whole continent

the whole continent is smaller then the US

[Deleted]

It doesn't matter. It's realistic. Waving a wand and making all the guns disappear in the country would certainly cut down on the gun violence in this country, but it isn't realistic. It's the same concept with changing the gun culture, and both (at this time) would have the same success rate. We need to keep our solutions at least somewhat within the bounds of realism in order for them to have any hope of making an actual impact.

in 1940s America it was considered unrealistic that black people would be treated equally

You don't need to make all guns disappear just become stricter and change the ridiculous outdated notion that you need guns. Could take 20 years but isn't that better than brushing it under the carpet

[eodusaf]

Public schools are already like prisons, so I'm not sure what would change exactly.

My high school wasn't even very big, and I graduated before all these school shootings became a thing. Yet even there, we had a "resource officer" who was literally there every day. I'm not sure if he carried a gun or not, maybe that's the difference we're talking about?

Maybe if schools weren't as much like prisons and bullying wasn't such a wide-spread thing that is mostly ignored, there would be less children wanting to shoot other children? But lets not fix the cause I guess.

School shootings have always been a thing, they're nothing new, just the media makes them seem new. Also bullying is nothing new, we're just raising a generation of pussys that cant fight back or defend themselves, instead go crying to the media, "he hurt my feelings". Banning guns would do nothing, the places with the strictest gun control laws have the worst gun violence. When will gun control retards actually look at the data and realize its not guns that are the problem, its peoples mindsets about guns.

[Deleted]

the whole continent is smaller then the US

go research Europe population then USA population

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Not if you do what my county did and just change a couple of the county police to "school beat" instead of patrolling the streets. Didn't cost a dime more than the cops were already making and none of it came from the schools' budgets.

But honestly, I'm not sure that it will really stop the epidemic of school shootings. Most of these kids commit suicide when they're done or out of ammo anyway, so I'm not sure the prospect of death at the hands of an armed police officer is really going to deter them from carrying out their violent fantasies. I'm not against the idea, because it can obviously put a quick end to it and save a bunch of lives, I just don't think it's going to solve the underlying problems.

Depends on the area. The schools I went to were fairly safe. No Elgin Illinois? ...........

[Filathorn]

the whole continent is smaller then the US

If you go by area, USA is 9,826,675 km^2, while Europe is 10,180,000 km^2. That is, USA is about 4% smaller than Europe. And as has been commented earlier, if we go by population, America has about half the population of Europe (you can check that as well in the same links as area), yet America still has almost 3 times as many school-shooting incidents in this decade than Europe has had since 1900.

I'm entirely fine with expressing ones opinion, but the moment you start basing your opinions on facts (which you always should), you should also both make sure your facts are correct, and actually cite your sources, so everyone else can see that your facts are correct.

[RicardoZ]

Depends on the area. The schools I went to were fairly safe. No Elgin Illinois? ...........

Not quite sure what you mean here...?? Do you mean that if an area has a lower crime rate then it's a less likely candidate for a school shooting?

[Eroginous]

Then your OP is misleading, as the study confirms nothing.

The OP is not misleading. What word do you use for people whose job it is to be first responders in the event of a shooting? Should we make up a long as name we can turn into an acronym? I'd rather just called them what they are: Security.

The study confirms the idea that schools should have armed/trained security.

Virginia had armed campus guards and that didn't do jack.

Virgina is a college, with a campus the size of a small city. It's not hard to understand why it took so long for campus police to show up.

An elementary/middle/high school is typically much much smaller than a small city. It's much easier for people on campus to respond to a shooting incident at a high school than it is for campus police to do so at a college.

You obviously didn't read the article. Mention was made of the recent Colorado shooting where having armed security prevented greater tragedy.

[madmanx]

Guns in schools, ultra right wing politics and creationism...you should figure out a way to use this for promoting tourism in the US. It sounds great, can't wait to go back....

If you improved history education in the US you would know that there was a time (not long ago) when the US was considered a great nation. In the last 350 years your country has championed democracy, religious freedom, equality and social justice. The US was the world leader in so many areas, industry, culture, politics, education just to name a few. It blazed the way for modern western Europe. (Please note that I am ignoring that fact that you had to be white to enjoy most of this since this was not a US specific problem.)

Today you are mostly known for Sarah Palin and her "gang", gun crazed hicks, poor education and religious fundamentalism.

What happened and why isn't the US as a nation going absolutely postal about it?

[Eroginous]

If you go by area, USA is 9,826,675 km^2, while Europe is 10,180,000 km^2. That is, USA is about 4% smaller than Europe. And as has been commented earlier, if we go by population, America has about half the population of Europe (you can check that as well in the same links as area), yet America still has almost 3 times as many school-shooting incidents in this decade than Europe has had since 1900.

Europe is comprised of approx 50 different countries, each with their own set of laws and governments completely independent of each other.

Europe also has much better social programs for education, healthcare, and even assisted living.

People aren't shooting up schools because of guns/gun culture.

People are shooting up schools because because of our lack of socioeconomic security.

And because we let them.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Not quite sure what you mean here...?? Do you mean that if an area has a lower crime rate then it's a less likely candidate for a school shooting?

Something like that. I'm saying certain areas aren't as likely for a school shooting. So while chicago(Ugh) has a lot of shootings and stuff. The US isn't in panic mode where you get shoot nearly everywhere we go.

[RicardoZ]

Today you are mostly known for Sarah Palin and her "gang", gun crazed hicks, poor education and religious fundamentalism.

Maybe it's what you choose to focus on, but in my extensive living abroad I haven't found that to be the consensus on what the United Sates is like.

[PACOX]

TIL That many schools don't have resource officers. Every school around here middle school and up has at least one dedicated police officer who does nothing but patrols the school. Police cars tend to stick close to the elementary schools. This isn't a new thing, its been like that for years. Ands its never really been about people bringing guns to school but the fact that so much random stuff can go down out a school that may require police assistance. Contraband on school grounds (drugs, alcohol, etc), bad fights, child abuse, theft, bunch of crap. Its just easier to have a cop hanging around. Most of the time they are out of site except in the mornings, end of day, and between periods.

I also though all public colleges had their own police department. Even our community colleges have one or two cops that are always around during main hours.

[MerinPally]

TIL That many schools don't have resource officers. Every school around here middle school and up has at least one dedicated police officer who does nothing but patrols the school. Police cars tend to stick close to the elementary schools. This isn't a new thing, its been like that for years. Ands its never really been about people bringing guns to school but the fact that so much random stuff can go down out a school that may require police assistance. Contraband on school grounds (drugs, alcohol, etc), bad fights, child abuse, theft, bunch of crap. Its just easier to have a cop hanging around. Most of the time they are out of site except in the mornings, end of day, and between periods.

I also though all public colleges had their own police department. Even our community colleges have one or two cops that are always around during main hours.

I've never heard of any of this happening anywhere in the UK. Ever. Someones being a dick? You hurt them. Usually with your fists. Or you suggest that their mother is a whore. I don't know why people make the leap to "lets attack someone with a deadly weapon"

[Deleted]

You would need like 100.000 security guards to protect schools and I think the idiots would just go elsewhere, like movietheaters, bars, pubs, bowling alleys etc. you would need a million security guards protecting you following this logic, or everyone would have to have a gun and then the killings would just end pile up one by one instead of taking big leaps from time to time.