New rogue ideas to keep the class distinct among specs.

[ElfinHilon10]

Hey guys. So I was brainstorming some ideas last night about rogues and what really needs to be done to make them feel more flavorful.
I thought of some ideas, and would like to know what you guys think.


Rogue: All specs: Slice N Dice is now only available to Assassination, and is simply passive. Assassination will always have the 50% attack speed increase (not haste).
Combo points are now on the rogue, not the target.
Redirect ability removed.


Assassination: Rogue who relies heavily on poisons and dealing massive weapon strikes with daggers.

Slice N Dice is now passive. Cut to the chase now refreshes Rupture time to original duration, instead of Slice N Dice.


Combat: A tough rogue who ebbs and flows with the pace of combat. Designed for heavy hitting attacks using swords, maces, or axes, which ever strikes their fancy.

Eviscerate removed, replaced with new finisher Cutthroat. Slice n Dice removed. No passive.

Cutthroat: Deals damage based per combo point (comparable to Eviscerate) as well as giving a quick, energy regeneration buff. Would increase energy regeneration by 20% for 3 seconds.

New passive: Serrated blades
When ever you use Cutthroat against an enemy that has rupture on it, rupture is extended by 6 seconds.


Subtlety: A rogue that causes massive bleeding damage with either daggers or other one handed damage weapons.

Eviscerate removed, and hemorrhage revamped. Now passive. New finisher, Hunger for blood.

Hunger for Blood: New finisher for Subtlety rogue. Deals x amount of damage, based on combo points. If rupture is on the target, increases attack speed by 50% for 3 seconds.

New combo point builder: Piercing strike.
Piercing strike: Deals x amount of damage to target (amount on par with backstab, slightly lower). 35 energy cost. Generates 1 combo point. Has a higher coefficient when using daggers, and lower when using swords. Think ambush, or current Hemo.

New passive: Hemorrhage.

Hemorrhage: Whenever you use Piercing Strike OR Ambush on a target with Rupture, it instantly causes the Hemorrhage effect. The target bleeds over the course of 3 seconds for 10% of the damage done.

New passive: Blood bath

Blood bath: Whenever you use Hunger for Blood on a target with rupture, it instantly causes a tick of Rupture, and increases the time on rupture by 6 seconds.

Energetic recovery is now a passive, with no need for Slice N Dice. Sub rogues will always have the increased energy regeneration.


So there the idea. All classes should have some sort of different finisher that should do something different (they all should affect rupture with uptime though.)
The idea behind this is to hope make it so that the specs actually feel unique to one another. Assassination being heavy on poisons, combat feeling like slow to quick heavy hitter, and assassination using a lot of bleed damage through rupture/hemo passive.

All ability names and passives can be changed, as well as properly tweaked for balance.
Unless something was specifically, assume current passives and spells will work as they do on live.

[Rabka Uhalla]

I don't usually say this, but I approve. Great ideas.

[ElfinHilon10]

I don't usually say this, but I approve. Great ideas.

Woo! Glad I got approval. ;D

[Koji2k11]

well i like some of those ideas depends on what the next game dev is going to say to those :O

[Sesshou]

Compared to what we have now, I guess thats better... except for assassination. Why do you feel the need to dumb it down further by making them essentially only use 1 finisher?

I don't think that makes them more distinct though. All you did is give each spec an envenom type buff to manage instead of slice and dice. So that actually makes them closer to assassination than their live counter parts.

[ElfinHilon10]

well i like some of those ideas depends on what the next game dev is going to say to those :O

Haha thanks man! Glad you enjoy it.

[ecca2]

re: Assassination

If your Cut to the Chase refreshes Rupture and SnD is passive, why not add another finisher to juggle? Otherwise, the rotation's even easier than it is now!

If we wanna give things flavor, we could replace Rupture with a poison dot for Assassination only? Same effect and numbers, just feels more unique that way. Rename Cut to the Chase to Toxicity or something else poison-y. Add in another poison-flavored finisher that, for example, hits harder if your Envenom buff is up and you have another solid rotation while still keeping some unpredictability via Blindside procs. And if we're going for more flavor, why not replace Crimson Tempest with a poison-based aoe for the spec instead while we're at it? Similar to Serpent Spread that puts a half-duration Deadly Poison on the targets it hits, which would interact with our Mastery as well. CT is virtually worthless as it is so it wouldn't hurt to give each spec something that feels like it belongs.

[Deleted]

I like the ideas in general, but it sounds like rogue rotations become really simple. So some things should be added for complexity, but in general a good way.

[ElfinHilon10]

re: Assassination

If your Cut to the Chase refreshes Rupture and SnD is passive, why not add another finisher to juggle? Otherwise, the rotation's even easier than it is now!

If we wanna give things flavor, we could replace Rupture with a poison dot for Assassination only? Same effect and numbers, just feels more unique that way. Rename Cut to the Chase to Toxicity or something else poison-y. Add in another poison-flavored finisher that, for example, hits harder if your Envenom buff is up and you have another solid rotation while still keeping some unpredictability via Blindside procs. And if we're going for more flavor, why not replace Crimson Tempest with a poison-based aoe for the spec instead while we're at it? Similar to Serpent Spread that puts a half-duration Deadly Poison on the targets it hits, which would interact with our Mastery as well. CT is virtually worthless as it is so it wouldn't hurt to give each spec something that feels like it belongs.

Yeah I'm not opposed to any of those ideas. Those sound really good.

EDIT: Only reason I didn't change rupture, is because Rupture is literally the same thing as Serpent Sting from hunters. It does a based dot and is used by all the specs. Simply consolidating it with a refresh via finisher is essentially how current Hunters work, whether it be through combra shot focus regeneration, or through an actual heavy damage spell like chimera shot.

[Nouk]

I dont like Sub being advocated even more as the "Bleed"-Spec. It was pretty blatantly copied from Ferals back in the day as they had no idea what to do with Sub in the first place. It makes zero sense for the Theme. Opening someones blood-vessels maybe "subtle", but thats about it. Even today our Bleeds are far from central to Subs damage, besides SV.

[ElfinHilon10]

I dont like Sub being advocated even more as the "Bleed"-Spec. It was pretty blatantly copied from Ferals back in the day as they had no idea what to do with Sub in the first place. It makes zero sense for the Theme. Opening someones blood-vessels maybe "subtle", but thats about it. Even today our Bleeds are far from central to Subs damage, besides SV.

Even though as it currently stands bleeds are the biggest factor in our damage?

[Sageofthe10paths]

I keep saying this but... Rogues are theives effectivly right? They can only pick pockets form NPC's though! I think they should be given a base line move called [Pilfer Magic] The rogue carefully steals a magic effect from the target granting him 300% energy regeneration for 5 seconds. Useable in stealth. 1 minute cool down.

[Sesshou]

I keep saying this but... Rogues are theives effectivly right? They can only pick pockets form NPC's though! I think they should be given a base line move called [Pilfer Magic] The rogue carefully steals a magic effect from the target granting him 300% energy regeneration for 5 seconds. Useable in stealth. 1 minute cool down.

The rogue archetype includes far more, so no we aren't effectively thieves. And that is just adrenaline rush with a shorter cd, shorter duration, and a new name.

[Sageofthe10paths]

The rogue archetype includes far more, so no we aren't effectively thieves. And that is just adrenaline rush with a shorter cd, shorter duration, and a new name.

I wanted to make it so the rogue is invigorated by stealing stuff. I guess you could just make it a carbon copy of Spell Steal, but I don't feel like that's very exciting. There needs to be more thief type moves for rogues imo.

[Bawa]

This is exactly what Rogues need, just like hunters, all their specs vary so little that you really barely can notice if you are in one or the other.

[Senftw]

I personally think that sub and assass feel great to play already, combat feels bland though.

[The_Butcher]

Main character was a rogue from BC - Wotlk, come cata & even parts of pandaria its become lifeless and dull to me.
I Liked the difference between assassination and combat for slice and dice, from your description I Believe it will have a smoother feel.
You have sparked some interest once again and I thank you, I approve of this revamp wholeheartedly!

If your curious about my ideas, I have an old thread: Rogue-6-0-Fanbased-Talents

[Nouk]

Even though as it currently stands bleeds are the biggest factor in our damage?

i don't know where you get those Numbers from, but Rupture and Hemo together have around 7-10% of all damage done
as a Sub Rogue, depending on the Fight.

Example http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/r...?s=9190&e=9566

[Sesshou]

This is exactly what Rogues need, just like hunters, all their specs vary so little that you really barely can notice if you are in one or the other.

Does it really do that? I'm still waiting for the OP to explain how giving every spec a finisher which applies a very short duration buff which you want to maximize the uptime of is making our specs more distinct.

Now that is certainly more interesting than what we have currently, but its still a single homogenized mechanic across all 3 specs.

[Terahertz]

Please cut it out with the freaking ramp up rotations. It's -seriously- freaking annoying as it is. I don't want to ramp up my freaking damage. I just want to do a lot of damage as it is.

Seriously. Your sublety rogue suggestions basically makes them into a freaking feral druid/assass rogue with "strong" bleeds. Eviscerate is a key ability for sublety, don't mess with it.