Why, in media, are bullies always stereotypicaly abused by their parents?

[Jerethepaladin]

It seems like in every story, every movie, and every generalthing, the typical school, neighborhood…hell, any asshole hat pushes other kidsaround seems to fall into the “their parents are assholes” category. Now I’mnot saying that that’s not the case, I've sure there’s a lot of folks whowere/are dicks to their kids, but that doesn't mean that they’re the ones toblame. It’s gotten very, -very- contrived in every show/movie/book I read whena character is a bully only because of what his parents, or parent, has done tothem.


I know the already blatantly obvious answer that every literate being would give, Evil is boring if it's only drive is to just be evil. But that's not how it's like in real life. People are jerks, not all of them, but a good number of them are! I'm sure it's built around the idea of violence is not the answer and to teach kids to not hate a person because they're a bully and to ignore them when they're being one, but that's just not how life goes.

Why, for once at least, can writers not just have a spiteful asshole driven by his own whim and hatreds, while also showing how ignorant his/her parents are of their child’s demeanor.

[TheGravemind]

Bullying sucks, but cyber-bullying is what really irks me. What does "cyber-bullying" even mean? Why is it such a big deal if it's not physical? People need to seriously develop thicker skin. Under the broad definition of "cyber-bullying" today, I may have even been labelled as one back in junior high/high school simply because I used to glitch counter-strike and Starcraft games when people from our school would play together.

[mickybrighteyes]

depends on how far people take the cyber bullying. sometimes it gets turned into full blown harassment. But really, some people DO need to grow some thicker skin.

[Ticj]

Bullying sucks, but cyber-bullying is what really irks me. What does "cyber-bullying" even mean? Why is it such a big deal if it's not physical? People need to seriously develop thicker skin. Under the broad definition of "cyber-bullying" today, I may have even been labelled as one back in junior high/high school simply because I used to glitch counter-strike and Starcraft games when people from our school would play together.

I bet it really irked the kids when you were ruining their fun.

OT: I don't know, probably because the writers want you to feel bad for the kid, and then he all of a sudden becomes good with a little encouragement...

Such an over-used concept, my god.

[Endus]

I know the already blatantly obvious answer that every literate being would give, Evil is boring if it's only drive is to just be evil. But that's not how it's like in real life. People are jerks, not all of them, but a good number of them are!

This really isn't true. Outside of mental illness or the like, assholes are made, not born. And they're made by things like repeated abuse as a child and such. This is true of a lot of violent criminals and such. It's a trope because it's based on reality.

Plus, there's no such thing as evil for evil's sake. Even Hitler thought he was doing what was right for Germany. Nobody is ever "let's kick puppies because EVIL IS COOL". That just does not happen, unless you're a psychopath.


On an unrelated note, I think we need to abandon "bullying" as a concept. It doesn't really exist. I mean, of course kids get bullied, but we shouldn't treat it the way we do. We should treat it the way we would if they were adults. If you shove a kid around the playground or pick a fight with him, that's felony assault. Repeated insults and verbal attacks is criminal harassment. Making up lies to spread about someone to demean them is slander and/or libel, depending on the way it was spread; that's a civil infringement, but the reaction should still be to sue the offender and their parents for a multi-thousand-dollar settlement. Charge the offenders for felony offenses, send them to juvie. I have absolutely no idea why we've decided to let criminal assaults be treated as "just kid stuff", and deal with them with administrative punishments like school suspensions or expulsions.

If a guy who hated me at work walked up to me in the parking lot and punched me in the face, he'd be going to jail for assault and battery. Why is it not a crime when a jock punches a nerd in the face in the schoolyard? Sure, charge them as minors. I'm not saying we should charge them as adults. But we have a legal system for the reason. We should be using it.

[Varabently]

It seems like in every story, every movie, and every generalthing, the typical school, neighborhood…hell, any asshole hat pushes other kidsaround seems to fall into the “their parents are assholes” category. Now I’mnot saying that that’s not the case, I've sure there’s a lot of folks whowere/are dicks to their kids, but that doesn't mean that they’re the ones toblame. It’s gotten very, -very- contrived in every show/movie/book I read whena character is a bully only because of what his parents, or parent, has done tothem.


I know the already blatantly obvious answer that every literate being would give, Evil is boring if it's only drive is to just be evil. But that's not how it's like in real life. People are jerks, not all of them, but a good number of them are! I'm sure it's built around the idea of violence is not the answer and to teach kids to not hate a person because they're a bully and to ignore them when they're being one, but that's just not how life goes.

Why, for once at least, can writers not just have a spiteful asshole driven by his own whim and hatreds, while also showing how ignorant his/her parents are of their child’s demeanor.

Genes play a huge role (arguably the only role, but that's another topic) in who we are. If our parents are assholes, there's a good chance we will be too. If our parents are poor, guess what? chances are we are too. There's nothing magical or stereotypical going on.

[Jerethepaladin]

To be fair, I think it's not really a matter of actual physical harm as much as it is screwing with their heads. You cheating at Starcraft, sure that's a dick move but it's over and done with. I mean, there was that one guy who a few years back killed himself when he found out his roommate had videotaped him having homosexual sex with a friend and had distributed it around the campus, and then it found its way onto the internet. It's shame, more then anything.

[OzoAndIndi]

Because in many cases people are what they were taught by example as a child, in many cases it's a realistic theme. Those that aren't are the ones who are written as being nutjobs...

[Jerethepaladin]

Plus, there's no such thing as evil for evil's sake. Even Hitler thought he was doing what was right for Germany. Nobody is ever "let's kick puppies because EVIL IS COOL". That just does not happen, unless you're a psychopath.

Well, perhaps that particular trope mostly applies to the big stompy evils. Evil for the sake of being evil, because they're an all mighty demonic force.

[Deleted]

Bullying sucks, but cyber-bullying is what really irks me. What does "cyber-bullying" even mean? Why is it such a big deal if it's not physical? People need to seriously develop thicker skin. Under the broad definition of "cyber-bullying" today, I may have even been labelled as one back in junior high/high school simply because I used to glitch counter-strike and Starcraft games when people from our school would play together.

It does seem to have a really broad definition given what I've seen on the news where I live, it was on the news on the radio today where I live, and they were interviewing a little girl who said "Sometimes I might say hello to someone on facebook and they'll tell me I'm ugly" or something like that. That doesn't really sound like Bullying to me, it sounds like a don't talk to that person again and ignore them scenario, kids should be taught not to let things like this bother them, not that if you whine enough about it someone else will fix it for you.

Not that I'm denying Cyber bullying does take place, I've seen some horrible things on the internet, usually when groups of people gather together with the sole purpose of harassing someone over social networks, which IMO could be called Bullying, but anything less than that is just so easily ignored, if you can't ignore it then it seems like a personal problem to me.

[Malkiah]

Why, for once at least, can writers not just have a spiteful asshole driven by his own whim and hatreds, while also showing how ignorant his/her parents are of their child’s demeanor.

because there are 2 absolutely unbreakable rules in all forms of media fiction:

1. nobody can just be be a dickbag because they're a dickbag - most people simply cannot handle the idea of a random universe where sometimes people just suck, they have to be able to retreat into the fantasy that there is a reason for EVERYTHING.

2. kids are not people - according to the media, anyone under 18 is a sub-human animal incapable of independent thought or motivation, so everything they do must be the direct result of something an adult did to them.

[Jerethepaladin]

Genes play a huge role (arguably the only role, but that's another topic) in who we are. If our parents are assholes, there's a good chance we will be too. If our parents are poor, guess what? chances are we are too. There's nothing magical or stereotypical going on.

Ehh...I'd try and argue this. My dad, sisters, and hell even my mom are all big outdoorsy naturey type, and I come out a computer genius who had to fix everything in the house time and time again. All tier attempts at converting me failed, so that's not entirely absolute.

and I'm fairly sure there's a number of successful people who would argue the claim that being born into poverty means you're going to stay in poverty.

[Veyne]

They like for there to be some sort of REASON why someone's a dick, perpetuating the myth that people are inherently good unless something awful happens to them. Some people are just dicks.

[Endus]

Well, perhaps that particular trope mostly applies to the big stompy evils. Evil for the sake of being evil, because they're an all mighty demonic force.

Even then, I think evil for evil's sake is just lazy writing. It's hand-waving away the motivation and justification for the antagonist. Hell, even if I were to write a story about Lucifer, I'd still want to write about why he rebelled, why he felt he had to do that. Just saying "I did it because I'm a fuckhead, you fucker" is boring and lazy as hell.

[Jerethepaladin]

anyone under 18 is a sub-human animal incapable of independent thought or motivation.

I'm going to steal this for later, thank you!

[Themius]

Genes play a huge role (arguably the only role, but that's another topic) in who we are. If our parents are assholes, there's a good chance we will be too. If our parents are poor, guess what? chances are we are too. There's nothing magical or stereotypical going on.

Genes don't play a huge role, they play a minor roll.

A person with genes that make one more violent than normal also make people less violent than normal depending on upbringing. If in a good household they tend to be less violent than most, when brought up in an abusive house, they tend to be more violent than usual.

[Felya]

Because it's a derivative plot device and most media is derivative...

[Lemons]

Genes play a huge role (arguably the only role, but that's another topic) in who we are. If our parents are assholes, there's a good chance we will be too. If our parents are poor, guess what? chances are we are too. There's nothing magical or stereotypical going on.

So if a kid was taken away from his asshole parents at birth and raised by a group of peace-loving monks that kid would still turn out to be an asshole? I call bullshit on that. It's all in how you were raised.

You learn how to be an asshole from your parents...you learn how to be poor from your parents. Simple as that. There's little to no genetic predisposition towards things like that.

[Jerethepaladin]

Even then, I think evil for evil's sake is just lazy writing. It's hand-waving away the motivation and justification for the antagonist. Hell, even if I were to write a story about Lucifer, I'd still want to write about why he rebelled, why he felt he had to do that. Just saying "I did it because I'm a fuckhead, you fucker" is boring and lazy as hell.

I may of miswritten that initial statement. Evil just for the sake of being evil is lazy writing, im not arguing that. I mean, in example, in a story that I'm working on during the main character's youth he's harassed by a lil turd being evil for the sake of being evil. After standing up, and inadvertently shaming his bully, the now minor antagonist has motivation for evil now, that being revenge.

What I'm more or less stuck on is what could this particular minor antagonist's motivations be before he starts running on Revenge.

[poser765]

I may of miswritten that initial statement. Evil just for the sake of being evil is lazy writing, im not arguing that. I mean, in example, in a story that I'm working on during the main character's youth he's harassed by a lil turd being evil for the sake of being evil. After standing up, and inadvertently shaming his bully, the now minor antagonist has motivation for evil now, that being revenge.

What I'm more or less stuck on is what could this particular minor antagonist's motivations be before he starts running on Revenge.

Bullies don't need much of a motivation. His motivation could simply be he gets off on being a dick...and that more often than not is a behavior rooted in either an abusive childhood, or mental problems.