0.23% of Players Defeated Heroic Garrosh

[Pann]

And what about the players who do the high end content? What is their reward? From your point of view, you should get the highest gear available because you pay to play the game (news flash, everyone else does too). If you can obtain the best possible gear from something other than raiding, what do the raiders get for their time? This is going in circles. Again it sounds like the entitlement issue. You want it simply because you want it. You feel raiders shouldn't be rewarded for what they do, basically.

I mean, hell, I don't PvP, at all. Does that mean the people who do focus on PvP shouldn't be rewarded with their cool titles and mounts? I pay $15/month just like them, why is Blizzard designing content that I have no interest in? It's the same as raiding. There are different rewards for different tasks. The main reward for raiding is the best gear. If that was available to everyone (it already is, but in your mind it isn't), what do the raiders get for their effort? What is their reward?

Is the content that is exclusively catered towards not reward enough?

So not only do you think it is okay for the 90% subsidise content they have no interest in playing but you want to exclude them from having gear?

What do raiders get for their time? I would imagine an enjoyable experience if this is not the case perhaps it is time to reevaluate why they are raiding.

A new level 90 has access to exactly the same PVP content and can earn the same gear as a rank one gladiator a fresh level 90 cannot even enter most raiding content.

- - - Updated - - -

I dont like daily quests. I demand 5$ lower sub fee because that content do not interest me.

I would say take that up with Blizzard but fortunately for you they seem to have removed daily quests so this is no longer an issue.

[Monoxide]

Is the content that is exclusively catered towards not reward enough?

So not only do you think it is okay for the 90% subsidise content they have no interest in playing but you want to exclude them from having gear?

What do raiders get for their time? I would imagine an enjoyable experience if this is not the case perhaps it is time to reevaluate why they are raiding.

A new level 90 has access to exactly the same PVP content and can earn the same gear as a rank one gladiator a fresh level 90 cannot even enter most raiding content.

- - - Updated - - -



I would say take that up with Blizzard but fortunately for you they seem to have removed daily quests so this is no longer an issue.

You're just being delusional and petty. A fresh lv90 has around a 430 ilevel. Please, go queue for some BGs or arenas. Let me know how much fun you have getting stomped into the ground every time you spawn.

[Pann]

What do you want? To ding 90 and kill Garrosh hc? Is that your goal? Then why not remove first 89 levels because hey, you need to get to 90.... Or better yet, ask Blizzard that they remove first 13 bosses so you can go kill Garrosh hc as soon as you ding 90.
And seriously, altering a number or two?

Not really, I, like, most of the WOW population have no interest in heroic Garrosh. Have you not heard they are planning on doing exactly that? Sounds like a plan butt why stop at 13 bosses?

These are the latest balance fixes;

Death Knight (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator)
Frost
Icy Talons now increases melee attack speed by 45% (up from 30%).
Unholy
Unholy Might now increases Strength by 35% (up from 25%).
Hunter (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator)
General
Aspect of the Hawk now increases ranged attack power by 35% (up from 25%).
Talents
Aspect of the Iron Hawk now increases ranged attack power by 35% (up from 25%).
Shaman (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator)
Elemental
Elemental Focus now increases spell damage done by 20% (up from 15%).

They look exactly like altering a number or two to me.

[Deleted]

Simply put HC Siegecrafter in 10man is still too dependent on classes to perform the functions needed (ie a hunter on belt) without that this fight is a total !%"£%!$% and considering the amount of 10man guilds there are ~80% ?? It's not surprising the amount of people that have killed it.

Seems like it is like that for most bosses at the moment.
In 25man we just stack up and soak stuff with cooldowns.

[Trigunflame]

You've got LFR, FLEX AND NORMAL to kill Garrosh.

Do you really expect everyone to be able to kill heroic as well?

My god the entitlement. Stop making these threads.

[Pann]

You're just being delusional and petty. A fresh lv90 has around a 430 ilevel. Please, go queue for some BGs or arenas. Let me know how much fun you have getting stomped into the ground every time you spawn.

Why I am being petty? I am not the one that expects over 90% of players to pay for content that I enjoy and get nothing in return. How do you think the players that are interested in PVP get gear?

[judgementofantonidas]

Let me see....

EU-Jaedenar - Not a single hunter in guild, 11/14hc progress.

I don't see how you seem to think there's numerous options available we are currently recruiting but with the whole MYTHIC raiding upcoming its proving very difficult given some people who are looking now are mostly looking for future options as well understandably.

Understandably ten man will be dead and you should be recruiting for Mythic. If you are that far in to HC progress I highly doubt your server is stagnant, nor po dunk.

[Louis CK]

Could also be interpreted as 99.77% of players don't care, or aren't incentivized enough to finish all the content. Just playing devil's advocate, eveh though I know a big reason is most likely not many are willing to put in the time. But then again, why should they with LFR?

A better statistic would be to see the percentage of people that actually play HM who have downed Garrosh.

The statistics on the front page would be like saying, "Here's the % of all the people in the world and how many have won a gold medal in the Olympics." It's a silly statistic. I'd much rather see the % of people who have TRIED getting into the Olympics and won a gold medal rather than some meaningless statistic of the population as a whole.

The statistic they've shown just feels like some muddled, meaningless number since the very large majority of those people they've taken into account have probably never touched a HM nor do they have any desire to.

If that makes sense.

[judgementofantonidas]

Not really, I, like, most of the WOW population have no interest in heroic Garrosh. Have you not heard they are planning on doing exactly that? Sounds like a plan butt why stop at 13 bosses?

These are the latest balance fixes;

Death Knight (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator)
Frost
Icy Talons now increases melee attack speed by 45% (up from 30%).
Unholy
Unholy Might now increases Strength by 35% (up from 25%).
Hunter (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator)
General
Aspect of the Hawk now increases ranged attack power by 35% (up from 25%).
Talents
Aspect of the Iron Hawk now increases ranged attack power by 35% (up from 25%).
Shaman (Forums / Skills / Talent Calculator)
Elemental
Elemental Focus now increases spell damage done by 20% (up from 15%).

They look exactly like altering a number or two to me.

we are digging frantically to pick up a frost dk.
hunters we have covered.

- - - Updated - - -

A better statistic would be to see the percentage of people that actually play HM who have downed Garrosh.

The statistics on the front page would be like saying, "Here's the % of all the people in the world and how many have won a gold medal in the Olympics." It's a silly statistic. I'd much rather see the % of people who have TRIED getting into the Olympics and won a gold medal rather than some meaningless statistic of the population as a whole.

The statistic they've shown just feels like some muddled, meaningless number since the very large majority of those people they've taken into account have probably never touched a HM nor do they have any desire to.

If that makes sense.

They would not post that number because it would not be as news worthy. It would read something like this.

"of the guilds that have attempted Heroic Garrosh 75% of them have completeded it" tuned as intended.

[Count Zero]

Let's be careful about reading too much into any given forum discussions. Less than 700 people have voted on this poll. Most of the 471 posts in the thread are from the same small handful of people.

I am a bit surprised tho, knowing how disproportionately hardcore the mmo-c audience is, that only just under a third of respondents think this level of progress on h garrosh is acceptable or should be even smaller. Let's call it even on the 2nd category of who want it just under 2% and who want it just over .25% since we can't know for sure exactly how that breaks down. That means, even for the mmo-c audience, about half of people think it's about fine or should be smaller, about half think it should have been tuned so more people have cleared h garry by now.

And, remember, mmo-c audience is extremely more hardcore, as a whole, than wow audience at large. Go find any other poll on player progression ... if you just went by mmo-c, you'd think half of all wow players, all wow players total, have cleared h garry.

[Louis CK]

we are digging frantically to pick up a frost dk.
hunters we have covered.

- - - Updated - - -



They would not post that number because it would not be as news worthy. It would read something like this.

"of the guilds that have attempted Heroic Garrosh 75% of them have completeded it" tuned as intended.

Maybe not as newsworthy, but better information.

And I don't mean "out of the guilds that have tried H Garrosh" but out of the guilds that have started HM. Would be more useful information to tell if it's "too hard" or "tuned right" or whatever.

I mean, the % of people who have played football this year that have won the Super Bowl isn't exactly helpful information. No, you'd want to discuss only those who play professional football, otherwise it's just useless statistics.

[judgementofantonidas]

Maybe not as newsworthy, but better information.

And I don't mean "out of the guilds that have tried H Garrosh" but out of the guilds that have started HM. Would be more useful information to tell if it's "too hard" or "tuned right" or whatever.

I mean, the % of people who have played football this year that have won the Super Bowl isn't exactly helpful information. No, you'd want to discuss only those who play professional football, otherwise it's just useless statistics.

would be better if it started counting at about half way through, because the preliminary bosses on heroic do not weed out the guilds that bring in hired hitters to show them the fight or even open the lockout without having downed Garrosh.

- - - Updated - - -

Let's be careful about reading too much into any given forum discussions. Less than 700 people have voted on this poll. Most of the 471 posts in the thread are from the same small handful of people.

I am a bit surprised tho, knowing how disproportionately hardcore the mmo-c audience is, that only just under a third of respondents think this level of progress on h garrosh is acceptable or should be even smaller. Let's call it even on the 2nd category of who want it just under 2% and who want it just over .25% since we can't know for sure exactly how that breaks down. That means, even for the mmo-c audience, about half of people think it's about fine or should be smaller, about half think it should have been tuned so more people have cleared h garry by now.

And, remember, mmo-c audience is extremely more hardcore, as a whole, than wow audience at large. Go find any other poll on player progression ... if you just went by mmo-c, you'd think half of all wow players, all wow players total, have cleared h garry.

MMO-Audience. I will post a poll before going to play army for the weekend.

Your post brings up an often argued point.

[Monoxide]

Why I am being petty? I am not the one that expects over 90% of players to pay for content that I enjoy and get nothing in return. How do you think the players that are interested in PVP get gear?

I don't expect 90% of players to pay for content I enjoy, and for them to get nothing in return. Comments like this are why I call you delusional. Find me statistics on how many people are 2400+ RBG/Arena, and I'll make the same comment to you. I can't imagine there are a huge amount of people at the top end of arena, just as there aren't a lot of people at the top end of raiding.

As far as your question of "How do you think the players that are interested in PvP get gear?", on my server, it's through being carried. Come make a Horde toon on Kil'jaeden. Watch trade chat for a few minutes, and notice how people *constantly* buy arena wins for 150g per win. No fresh 90 is queueing into BG's to gear up. They're using the people who have kept up with arena the entire expansion to carry them into gear. This isn't something I made up, I see it first hand every day, and I invite you to come and take a look yourself.

Maybe it's unique to my server, I don't know. What I do know is that no one hits fresh 90 and has fun jumping into BG's to gear up, because they just get smashed. They can't compete with the people who already have their full PvP gear.

It's about success rates. A fresh 90 can jump into random BG's or arena with their 430 ilevel and do terrible. A fresh 90 can form their own group for SoO and go in and wipe repeatedly. There is no difference. You won't find a single person who can hit 90, and immediately jump into an RBG group (no one is gonna want them because they aren't geared) or a serious PvP team (same thing, no one wants them because they aren't geared), in the same way that they can't immediately jump into SoO heroic.

You're using the illusion that PvP is accessible immediately, when it's really not. Yes, you can immediately queue up, but you'll have as much success in the BG with your 430 ilevel as you would in a raid, which is to say, none at all.

[Normie]

What do you mean? The rewards offered through raiding are generally: 1-2 mounts per tier, 1 title per tier, and 0-4 battle pets. Aside from that, the rewards are gear. I don't understand the mentality of "I have no intention of ever doing any heroic mode SoO boss, but I'll be damned if I don't need 570 ilevel gear" What do you need this gear for, exactly? You get all the other stuff (mounts/pets/titles) from the content Firefly33 mentioned. You get gear from most of them too. You just don't get the best, high end gear, from that content. Why do you need it though?


You're a no win type of person. Challenge modes are a perfect example. Your rewards are transmog items, a mount, and a title. Again I ask, if you have no interest in doing any SoO heroic, why do you need SoO heroic item level gear? Doesn't make any sense beyond "I want it because I do".

Every time I hear this question I have to marvel at the stupidity of someone asking:

"When you're playing a game, why would you want something that makes it more fun?"

It is a really stupid question.

You know what I would do with 570 gear on all my characters? I'd go grind bigger, meaner mobs, faster.

[Louis CK]

A new level 90 has access to exactly the same PVP content and can earn the same gear as a rank one gladiator a fresh level 90 cannot even enter most raiding content.

A new level 90 has access to exactly the same PVE content and can earn the same gear as a Hardcore raider as well.

Can't get in a guild downing Heroic Garrosh because you're at a 496 ilvl as a fresh 90? Makes sense.

You also won't be teaming up with anyone in arena's that's going for that Rank 1 Gladiator spot as a fresh 90 either.

You make the argument that PVP is open and available, well so is PVE. And as a fresh 90, you won't end up in either of those groups without stomping through the mud first whether it be random bg's or Flex/Normal to get where you want to be.

Every player has the exact same opportunity as every other player to compete at the highest levels in both PVP and PVE. It's the player's choice on whether or not they take the opportunity to do so.

[Madruga]

A better statistic would be to see the percentage of people that actually play HM who have downed Garrosh.

The statistics on the front page would be like saying, "Here's the % of all the people in the world and how many have won a gold medal in the Olympics." It's a silly statistic. I'd much rather see the % of people who have TRIED getting into the Olympics and won a gold medal rather than some meaningless statistic of the population as a whole.

The statistic they've shown just feels like some muddled, meaningless number since the very large majority of those people they've taken into account have probably never touched a HM nor do they have any desire to.

If that makes sense.

You do have a point.

I believe the population of the statistic is all the accounts that bothered to kill any boss inside SoO, which is 2,2 milion accounts. Or, at least, the accounts that have killed the first quarter, and therefore have the achievements. It is clear that most of those people didn't even try Heroics, since only around 6% killed Immersius Heroic.

For a better statistics, let's consider that the number of people interested in Heroics are the 6% that killed Immersius... That would be around 150k acounts. That would be the population for the new statistics. Considering that 0,23% in the original statistics corresponds to around 5k people...

Then from the people who have an interest in Heroic, 3,34% have killed Garrosh.

If you think about it, it is not too bad. We MAY get to 10% of people who have interest in Heroics killing Garrosh by the end of the expansion. And that is a pretty good number.

[Louis CK]

You're using the illusion that PvP is accessible immediately, when it's really not. Yes, you can immediately queue up, but you'll have as much success in the BG with your 430 ilevel as you would in a raid, which is to say, none at all.

Pretty much this.

You're just as likely to get in a group with that guy going for Rank 1 Gladiator as a fresh 90 for arenas as you are for that Server 1st guild pushing for H Garrosh.

People really make silly arguments.

[Monoxide]

Every time I hear this question I have to marvel at the stupidity of someone asking:

"When you're playing a game, why would you want something that makes it more fun?"

It is a really stupid question.

You know what I would do with 570 gear on all my characters? I'd go grind bigger, meaner mobs, faster.

You're right, it is a stupid question. Such a stupid question. That's probably why the highest ilevel gear is available in places other than raiding. Oh wait no it's not, and it never has been, and luckily Blizzard sides more with people along my line of thinking than yours, which is why raiding continues to offer the best gear in the game.

[Pann]

I don't expect 90% of players to pay for content I enjoy, and for them to get nothing in return. Comments like this are why I call you delusional. Find me statistics on how many people are 2400+ RBG/Arena, and I'll make the same comment to you. I can't imagine there are a huge amount of people at the top end of arena, just as there aren't a lot of people at the top end of raiding.

As far as your question of "How do you think the players that are interested in PvP get gear?", on my server, it's through being carried. Come make a Horde toon on Kil'jaeden. Watch trade chat for a few minutes, and notice how people *constantly* buy arena wins for 150g per win. No fresh 90 is queueing into BG's to gear up. They're using the people who have kept up with arena the entire expansion to carry them into gear. This isn't something I made up, I see it first hand every day, and I invite you to come and take a look yourself.

Maybe it's unique to my server, I don't know. What I do know is that no one hits fresh 90 and has fun jumping into BG's to gear up, because they just get smashed. They can't compete with the people who already have their full PvP gear.

It's about success rates. A fresh 90 can jump into random BG's or arena with their 430 ilevel and do terrible. A fresh 90 can form their own group for SoO and go in and wipe repeatedly. There is no difference. You won't find a single person who can hit 90, and immediately jump into an RBG group (no one is gonna want them because they aren't geared) or a serious PvP team (same thing, no one wants them because they aren't geared), in the same way that they can't immediately jump into SoO heroic.

You're using the illusion that PvP is accessible immediately, when it's really not. Yes, you can immediately queue up, but you'll have as much success in the BG with your 430 ilevel as you would in a raid, which is to say, none at all.

A 240 rated player plays in exactly the same arenas and battlegrounds as a 2400+ player just against different skilled players.

Regardless of what happens on your server most players who want PVP queue up for arenas or battlegrounds to earn their gear this is why base resilience was added to the game.

A fresh 90 cannot even enter heroic SoO but regardless of that the majority of players are not even interested in doing so. Blizzard have repeatedly said that their resources are limited and they often have to make the choice over which content they can develop, when less than 10% of players are using this content it is a waste of said resources and should be reallocated to content for the majority.

- - - Updated - - -

You're right, it is a stupid question. Such a stupid question. That's probably why the highest ilevel gear is available in places other than raiding. Oh wait no it's not, and it never has been, and luckily Blizzard sides more with people along my line of thinking than yours, which is why raiding continues to offer the best gear in the game.

That is simply because no-one would raid if there was no gear to give them illusion of being superior.

[Vayshan]

I dunno. I don't think heroics are meant for everyone. These kills are earned by the small percent of players actually willing to put in the time and effort. The percentages seem fine to me. Also I haven't killed Heroic Garrosh yet and I'm still content with our current progression.

I don't feel like I'm entitled to the kill. If we get it we earned it.

If only there were more people like you, then we could actualy have a great game. Not being sarcastic.