Doesn't blood tanking mechanic seem complicated to you?

[Keiyra]

Its not complicated. You choose to describe it in its full complexity while describing other tanking methods in barest simplest terms, while ignoring the fact you can do the same for blood tanking. "Death Strike heals you and creates an absorb shield. There, fundamental basics covered." as Meteoric put it.

Stop making a mountain out of a mole hill. There is nothing wrong or overly complicated about DK tanking.

[Haven]

Its not complicated. You choose to describe it in its full complexity while describing other tanking methods in barest simplest terms, while ignoring the fact you can do the same for blood tanking. "Death Strike heals you and creates an absorb shield. There, fundamental basics covered." as Meteoric put it.

Stop making a mountain out of a mole hill. There is nothing wrong or overly complicated about DK tanking.

I didn't oversimplify it for other specs. In fact, I covered their entire mechanics in one sentence for each. DK tanking, however, depends on too many factors. You can't ignore the dependence of heal from damage taken in the last 5 sec, because it's determining your effectiveness. You can't ignore that it only works on NPC-inflicted damage, so that it's not OP in PvP.

[bals]

I didn't oversimplify it for other specs. In fact, I covered their entire mechanics in one sentence for each. DK tanking, however, depends on too many factors. You can't ignore the dependence of heal from damage taken in the last 5 sec, because it's determining your effectiveness. You can't ignore that it only works on NPC-inflicted damage, so that it's not OP in PvP.

you didn't even bother talking about shield barrier for warriors. you only mentioned shield block. I don't even think you described shield block correctly.
you didn't even do your one line description for any other class.

no it's not complicated.

[Haven]

you didn't even bother talking about shield barrier for warriors. you only mentioned shield block. I don't even think you described shield block correctly.
you didn't even do your one line description for any other class.

I was talking about one basic defining mechanic, not every single tanking cooldown. And what exactly was wrong in my description of Shield Block? I described monk's mechanic which someone pointed out as even more complicated, earlier in the thread. Pay attention.

[Mormolyce]

In essence, blood DK tanks using a strike that deals damage to an enemy and heals you for percentage of the damage you have sustained from non-player sources during the preceding 5 sec (minimum of at least 7% of your maximum health), cannot be parried, and each time you heal yourself with it while only in Blood Presence, you gain a percentage of the amount healed as a Physical damage absorption shield, and this value is increased by a mastery stat. In order to actually be able to take advantage of this mechanic, you have to use add-ons like Bloodshield Tracker.

In comparison, Warriors tank using shields that block 30 or 60% of damage with certain chance depending on mastery. Note how this takes only one short sentence, while DK's one took four lines of text.

That's because you're overcomplicating DKs and oversimplifying Warriors. DKs tank by using Blood Strike which heals you and also gives you an absorb shield depending on mastery.

Also you don't need any addons to use a DK's blood shield.

I don't use anything specific for my Blood DK, although IceHUD recently put an absorb tracker in which is quite handy.

[Baelic]

The problem I have is not with DK tanking complexity, which no tank is overly complex in mechanics (neither is any class/spec combination).

However, the problem I have with DK tanking mechanics how badly they scale on a long-term basis. And by badly I mean how ridiculously high the numbers get due to the exponential growth as Health and Mastery both relate to each other.

[bals]

I was talking about one basic defining mechanic, not every single tanking cooldown. And what exactly was wrong in my description of Shield Block? I described monk's mechanic which someone pointed out as even more complicated, earlier in the thread. Pay attention.

both shield block and shield barrier and active mitigation for warriors. rereading your post it seems like you don't even mention shield block. You're pretty much saying when a warrior sits there they block either 30% or 60% sometimes which depends on their mastery.
even if you did mean shield block, you're completely ignoring the other active mitigation to make your point.
I still go with my original response to the thread.

[Mormolyce]

If anything, DKs are the most straightforward class when it comes to tanking mechanics.

Yeah that's what I was thinking.

In fact I'd like for the other tanking classes to be more like DKs. I don't mean in terms of abilities, just that the other tanks' adaptation to active mitigation feels kind of half-complete to me.

Except Paladins which I feel converted quite well.

[Cryopathy]

Our complexity comes from the mountain of cooldowns that we have and knowing when/how to use all of them, not from our active mitigation, which is the simplest out of all of the tanks, in the sense that there's no real choice regarding what we spend our resources on for mitigation.

All of the other tanks have to decide what to spend their main resources on. Druids choose between spending Rage on Frenzied Regen or Savage Defense. Monks choose to spend Chi on Blackout Kick to extend Shuffle or on Purifying Brew. Warriors choose between spending Rage on Shield Barrier and Shield Block. Paladins choose between spending Holy Power on Shield of the Righteous and Word of Glory.

We, on the other hand, are pretty much always going to prioritize spending our D/U/F runes on Death Strike and B runes are mostly just there for damage.

[Haven]

Also you don't need any addons to use a DK's blood shield.

To use it, no, but to use it effectively, yes. You need to wait until big spikes of damage to squeeze maximum Death Strikes in a 5-sec window right after you get run over. Scent of Blood kind of compensates for not spamming DS everytime you have the runes for it.

no offense, but all you're showing here is your knowledge of the DK mechanics and your ignorance of the other tanks' mechanics by comparison.

How so?

More generally, if everyone in the thread is telling you the exact same thing, consider reflecting back rather than camping your original position with a 'no.'

Hey, back in 1936 "everyone" in Germany was supporting Hitler (Godwin!). Numbers are not an argument.

If anything, DKs are the most straightforward class when it comes to tanking mechanics.

Once you get a grasp on an intuitive level, yes. But it kind of drags behind lots of heritage, a correction upon a correction.

[Simulacrum]

DKs are in my opinion the most straight-forward, uncomplicated, and intuitive tanking spec in the game. It really is just, are you below full health? Hit death strike. Heck, are you at full health? May as well hit death strike. Are you about to take an enormous amount of damage within the next few seconds? Maybe wait to hit death strike until it happens, if you feel like utilizing the mechanic to the max!

If you want to talk unintuitive tanking mechanics, let's talk about the paladin 'rotation'. Prioritizing the longer-cooldown, harder-hitting ability over the shorter-cooldown, weaker-hitting ability? Enjoy sucking ass as a result. Now that's unintuitive.

[onemanaleft]

you didn't give a real poll so i cant even vote, you only gave options you wanted like "its too complicated" and "its not too complicated but i like your idea"

[Haven]

you didn't give a real poll so i cant even vote, you only gave options you wanted like "its too complicated" and "its not too complicated but i like your idea"

How about "Current design is fine" option? Or which one would you like?

[Haven]

By oversimplifying every other tank class' mechanics while listing meaningless details for DK ones.

How are they meaningless? If you ignore that it works from a percentage of damage received during the last 5 sec, you're never going to get higher than "spam DS and pray to God" level. It's all about knowing when damage spikes come. If you ignore that it only works from NPC damage, you're in for a surprise in PvP. If you ignore that it's only against physical damage, you might get killed by a magic damage truck.

And what did I oversimplify about, say, a warrior? He has a chance to block for 30% of received damage and critically block for 60% of received damage. He also has a two-charge ability (if we go into additional abilities, but then I'll be forced to list the Raise Dead-Blood Pact combo and Lichborne-Death Coil combo, along with half a dozen other defensive cooldowns) that sets block chance to 100%, and an absorb shield ability. Is it not enough?

[Dessan]

I love the way Blood DK works. If anything changing it is gonna make it more awkward next expac when they need to make haste and crit start really being competitive vs mastery.

I'd like mastery to stay as is, increasing the shield, I'd like to see crits to increase the heal and thus shield also and I'd like to see haste either affect our rune regen a bit differently or have it interfere with bloodworms and give them some bigger throughput than currently, I don't want combat rogue Blood DK syndrome where I'm spamming buttons every gcd to be effective.
Haste is the one I dunno about tbh. Feels like we're lacking a mechanic or something to make it fun. (Perma DRW Glyph pleeeease?) Though I can see them making Crit our worse secondary stat since we already have Haste build Blood DKs running around.

[Raikh]

How are they meaningless? If you ignore that it works from a percentage of damage received during the last 5 sec, you're never going to get higher than "spam DS and pray to God" level. It's all about knowing when damage spikes come. If you ignore that it only works from NPC damage, you're in for a surprise in PvP. If you ignore that it's only against physical damage, you might get killed by a magic damage truck.

And what did I oversimplify about, say, a warrior? He has a chance to block for 30% of received damage and critically block for 60% of received damage. He also has a two-charge ability (if we go into additional abilities, but then I'll be forced to list the Raise Dead-Blood Pact combo and Lichborne-Death Coil combo, along with half a dozen other defensive cooldowns) that sets block chance to 100%, and an absorb shield ability. Is it not enough?

1. Compare active mitigation to active mitigation, if it is made by more elements for one tank class you have to include them all, ability vs ability is a very bad comparison, the hwole package matters
2. Block also only absorbs physical dmg, which you have to know when concerning with dmg income.
3. On what is that absorb based? Yeah Ap, ap seems pretty low just looking at your character sheet and it only scales with x% a number you should also know to be able to predict how big your absorb is. You also have to know how vengeance works, which grants you the ap you need to get a good absorb shield up and you need to predict vengeance fluctuations etc. which is irrelevant for dks.
4. Limited resources apply, like for dks, you need to predict how lethal an attack is, you need to know which defensive ability counteracts the dmg best, you need to know how long your absorbs will last and so on.

Complexity is in many things in WoW, but you don't feel it or need to know about the very last detail to use it. Using death strike is pushing a button, using shield barrier is pushing a button. The dk gets heal and absorb based on heal, the warrior gets absorb and can block dmg amount depending on crit block or not.
You can describe it overly complex or you can simplify it until it is misleading.

YOu did the first for the dk and the latter for the rest. Doesn't work that way though. Blood dk is not complicated to play, it only requires you to have an idea when your ds will save you and when not and not simply buttonmsh until boss or you dies, which is true for every tank.

[Haven]

The fact that you think these are 'additional abilities' or that you can simplify them to this extent is exactly what I'm talking about. Educate yourself on the details and you won't be satisfied with mere simplifications like that, in the exact same way you currently aren't satisfied by 'Death Strike heals and shields you'.

However deeply I may be touched by the depths of my obvious ignorance unveiled to me, I still fail to see the additional effects and hidden layers in Shield Barrier. An absorb shield. Absorbs all types of damage. Just like PW:S. And Shield Block. Sets block chance to 100%. Block keeps working exactly like it did, just with 100% chance. Enlighten me on underwater rocks if you will.

[Haven]

I didn't go in depth on vengeance because it's a mechanic that all tanks have. Derp?

Critical block is like critical hit. I thought it was obvious. If it's not a hit, it can't be a crit, so if it's not a block, it can't be critical block. I dunno, I got it at first glance.

Although I admit that I overlooked how Shield Barrier depends on AP which is in turn granted by vengeance, and the way it works kind of bears a certain resemblance to Blood Shield. Then again, I forgot to mention Scent of Blood adding another layer upon DS usage...

[Cryopathy]

However deeply I may be touched by the depths of my obvious ignorance unveiled to me, I still fail to see the additional effects and hidden layers in Shield Barrier. An absorb shield. Absorbs all types of damage. Just like PW:S. And Shield Block. Sets block chance to 100%. Block keeps working exactly like it did, just with 100% chance. Enlighten me on underwater rocks if you will.

Here is the point people are trying to make. You can choose to describe any tank's active mitigation in a simple way or a complicated way. Here are examples:

DK, simple version: Death Strike heals you based on the damage you've taken in the last 5 seconds and gives you a physical absorption shield based that scales with Mastery.
DK, complicated version: "Blood DK tanks using a strike that deals damage to an enemy and heals you for percentage of the damage you have sustained from non-player sources during the preceding 5 sec (minimum of at least 7% of your maximum health), cannot be parried, and each time you heal yourself with it while only in Blood Presence, you gain a percentage of the amount healed as a Physical damage absorption shield, and this value is increased by a mastery stat. In order to actually be able to take advantage of this mechanic, you have to use add-ons like Bloodshield Tracker." (these are your words)

Warrior, simple version: "Warriors tank using shields that block 30 or 60% of damage with certain chance depending on mastery." (again, your words)
Warrior, complicated version: Warriors have to decide between spending their Rage on two main activation mitigation abilities. The first, Shield Barrier, gives you a damage absorption shield based off of your attack power, and consumes more Rage the larger the shield it provides. The second ability, Shield Block, has a flat Rage cost and blocks every attack against you for the next 6 seconds. These blocks can be critical blocks, and you can have up to a maximum of 2 charges at once. Normal blocks reduce the blow by 30%, whereas critical blocks reduce the blow by 60%."

In your description of DKs, you added extra information about addons and Blood Presence to pad its length. In your description of Warriors, you completely left out an entire essential active mitigation ability (Shield Barrier), you said nothing about managing Rage, you said nothing about Defensive Stance, etc.

You chose to describe Blood DK's in a complicated manner and Warriors in a simple manner, and you are arguing that DKs are more complicated because the description you wrote is longer ("Note how this takes only one short sentence, while DK's one took four lines of text." - your words). That's not a valid argument. All you're proving is that you chose to wrote a more complicated description for DKs than you did for Warriors.

[Keiyra]

meh time to stop feeding the troll when they bring up ww2 germany.