New to Disc, any tips?

[Tarien]

The thing is you have to hit it ON CD to get max returns
Even a delay of 1 second would be a 17% reduction in effectiveness per cast, and if there's a point at which you can't then it's basically wasted.

That's not entirely true. Let's say you only get 5 casts of Solace a minute instead of 6. Now your regen is 5*2.8+8 = 22% regen per minute. 4 Solaces = 19.2% regen. So you could in fact wait five seconds after it's off cooldown and still get more regen than with Mindbender.

It does require more effort and awareness than the Mindbender which is pretty much fire and forget, but you certainly don't have to worry about casting it within 1 second or it's a regen loss.

Of course there is an argument as to whether the heal from Solace is worth it in which case is it really regen if the mana spent gains nothing, and if you have significant disconnect time (Garrosh Intermission phases, Immerseus submerges, if you're assigned to towers on Galakron etc). then it reduces the effectiveness. But it still looks better on paper...

[voidillusion]

While moving but cost 20% more? I find it really expensive, my mana goes fast if I use it a lot.

Yes i do, and actually is a glyph i cant play without any longer.... i still remember i had to remove it to do proving grounds endless and it drove me mad!

Anyways, regardless of the toll on your mana its without a doubt your stronger healing spell while attoning, often reaching 600k plus on a single cast.

[babylon]

Cascade is terrible for disc, halo and DS are far superior. All you need for halo is to judge a reasonable position to get a good use out of it and for stacked fights nothing beats out Divine Star, halo in good gear will hit for 600k on multiple people where as cascade takes far too long to bounce around everywhere and barely hits for 200k on crits.

gl with anything else then cascade on paragons hc (too spread for ds, cant break cc with halo). maybe there are other tactics, but my halo was banned there.
Cascade is better then halo when damage is given in pulses rather then 1 big hit. also you can use it more often, which you didnt add to your maths.
its very nice on fights like iron j hc used.

Hmm, do you glyph it to be useable while moving but cost 20% more? I find it really expensive, my mana goes fast if I use it a lot.

hrm if you run oom as disc, then something is not right and it is not the 20% on penance cost. maybe you dont have hc meta yet and play with very low spirit? or do you use a lot of flash heals? penance-on-move glyph is kinda mandatory on most of soo fights (hc-cleared pov), like chasing thok, moving from brew, moving from tornados, chasing slime, moving from magnet pull and many, many more.

[voidillusion]

gl with anything else then cascade on paragons hc (too spread for ds, cant break cc with halo). maybe there are other tactics, but my halo was banned there.
Cascade is better then halo when damage is given in pulses rather then 1 big hit. also you can use it more often, which you didnt add to your maths.
its very nice on fights like iron j hc used.

I also use it on Paragons, and Siegecrafter, but tbh those are the only 2 and even in Siege is debatable. In Iron Jug there's no discussion tbh... if you position yourself to make the most of Halo, even during p2 right b4 a knockback making that the outer rim hits the place where ppl are going to land, its just too strong on that fight tbh.

[Deleted]

Do you guys know why in particular it was removed? I'm coming back now to my disc and noticed that PoH doesn't automatically apply DA, does this mean that PoH is used a lot less? (Barring the inner focus --> PoH use)

To remove a play style which was far too simplistic and strong. PoH before the pull to build DA over the raid, Atonement until Archangel and then hit PoH with SS and finish out with more PoH. Generally, if the damage allows for good PoH use, that is you can hit all five people and be sure that overhealing is minimised, then PoH is very effective. Situations such as Galakras P2, Jugg P2 and perhaps Norushen if your raid leader is a pain and makes you collect orbs. IF + PoH is useful on Thok for negating some of the interrupts.

And, for what it is worth, Shadowfiend should be stronger with Hymn of Hope. Instead of buffing the 1.75% mana gain of each Mindbender swing by the additional base mana increase when channelling Hymn of Hope, you are increasing the 3% mana gain of the Shadowfiend swings. By selecting Mindbender, one is in fact reducing the potency of the Fiend / Hymn of Hope combination as less of your Mindbender uptime can be impacted by Hymn of Hope.

Solace tends to be the stronger choice as Holy Fire should be getting used anyway as it is a quicker Evangelism builder than either Smite or Penance. The excuse of forgetting about Solace isn't a brilliant one since at even a cast rate of 4 PW:Sol / min it is stronger. The only situation where Mindbender is more useful would be where your DPS is making a difference. At that point, you'd see more of an impact asking your druid healer to pop HotW during lulls or shouting at your DPS to improve.

even during p2 right b4 a knockback making that the outer rim hits the place where ppl are going to land, its just too strong on that fight tbh.

Weirdly enough, I prefer Divine Star on that fight. It requires a bit more positional awareness during the first phase but really helps after the knock backs when people need a sudden burst of healing.

[Tarien]

hrm if you run oom as disc, then something is not right and it is not the 20% on penance cost. maybe you dont have hc meta yet and play with very low spirit? or do you use a lot of flash heals? penance-on-move glyph is kinda mandatory on most of soo fights (hc-cleared pov), like chasing thok, moving from brew, moving from tornados, chasing slime, moving from magnet pull and many, many more.

I don't have the heroic meta, but I do have 11k spirit still and I do usually go with the spirit flask. I don't flash heal much at all if ever, nor do I PW:S very much unless it's needed. It's not that big of an issue I generally don't go OOM it's just the occasional fight, HC Norushen for instance I sometimes go OOM in the last 30s, but that's quite an intense fight for us still.

I just wonder how other disc priests go as low as 7k spirit and still heal well, but I think they have the Siegecrafter trinket maybe, and/or the heroic meta. Weirdly I don't see many disc priests at the top level using Solace, they all use Mindbender...

[Deleted]

A 7k spirit build with Mindbender might be focused around primarily healing with Atonement and contributing DPS. Once you out gear encounters this is probably the best setup to use for efficient clearing.

My luck on trinkets has been pretty poor for this patch. Currently I'm using a heroic warforged PPoP and a heroic PBoI for the double amp (around 10k spirit, intellect flask, jade serpent pots). I would love to get my hands on the Siegecrafter trinket (having never seen it drop I am convinced it doesn't exist) as the mana returns from that are worth a considerable amount of spirit. The LMG is a massive amount of regen if you can time it with a DS or Halo cast and failing that, performs well should you be quick enough to respond via PW:S.

[voidillusion]

I don't have the heroic meta, but I do have 11k spirit still and I do usually go with the spirit flask. I don't flash heal much at all if ever, nor do I PW:S very much unless it's needed. It's not that big of an issue I generally don't go OOM it's just the occasional fight, HC Norushen for instance I sometimes go OOM in the last 30s, but that's quite an intense fight for us still.

I just wonder how other disc priests go as low as 7k spirit and still heal well, but I think they have the Siegecrafter trinket maybe, and/or the heroic meta. Weirdly I don't see many disc priests at the top level using Solace, they all use Mindbender...

I'd imagine they do more or less the same as i do, chose on a per boss basis.

2 questions come up regarding this, 1st since mindbender is a increase in dps, will this increase be needed? 2nd will i be able to do solace on cd without losing something?

I'll give you an exemple, on Malkorok HC i always go with mindbender, not because of the dps itself but i find myself not casting solace as often as i should, so if for any given reason i can maximize it its better to just go with mindbender.

That's how i see it anyways, the beauty of this game is that often ppl get similar or better results just using a different reasoning.

[Tarien]

Currently I'm using a heroic warforged PPoP and a heroic PBoI for the double amp (around 10k spirit, intellect flask, jade serpent pots).

Correct me if I am wrong but the PBoI trinket doesn't proc for Disc? Though you will still get the benefit of the amplification effect.

[Deleted]

Correct me if I am wrong but the PBoI trinket doesn't proc for Disc? Though you will still get the benefit of the amplification effect.

I think there is something about meleeing the boss with a quick dagger to get it to proc (rng how many hits though).

[voidillusion]

I think there is something about meleeing the boss with a quick dagger to get it to proc (rng how many hits though).

Yap, some ppl just switch to fast weapon and go melee to get procs.

I understand the min/maxing but tbh cba.

[Deleted]

Correct me if I am wrong but the PBoI trinket doesn't proc for Disc? Though you will still get the benefit of the amplification effect.

I don't even melee the boss unless the opportunity really presents itself. My choice of trinkets has arisen because my other options aren't brilliant. It is either a normal Horridon's Last Gasp or Timeless Yu'lon both of which, anecdotally and qualitatively, perform worse than heroic PBoI. If I didn't have access to the heroic version, I would likely be using Timeless Yu'lon but the additional mastery and spirit and an even more powerful double dipping seems to make H PBoI win out.

You are correct though - it doesn't proc through any of our spells since one needs to be "flagged" as shadow for spells to activate the trinket beyond providing an additional amp.

[kenn9530]

gl with anything else then cascade on paragons hc (too spread for ds, cant break cc with halo). maybe there are other tactics, but my halo was banned there.
Cascade is better then halo when damage is given in pulses rather then 1 big hit. also you can use it more often, which you didnt add to your maths.
its very nice on fights like iron j hc used.

its just a terrible option for all fights, used on cd cascade does the least amount of healing and on paragons hc you can use halo just fine, iron jugg hc halo or DS is far better not to mention you also gain damage from both DS and Halo where cascade used on healing provides no damage, its just a bad spell overall for disc.

Solace tends to be the stronger choice as Holy Fire should be getting used anyway as it is a quicker Evangelism builder than either Smite or Penance. The excuse of forgetting about Solace isn't a brilliant one since at even a cast rate of 4 PW:Sol / min it is stronger. The only situation where Mindbender is more useful would be where your DPS is making a difference. At that point, you'd see more of an impact asking your druid healer to pop HotW during lulls or shouting at your DPS to improve

solace only provides 10% extra healing from that one spell, and even then it won't be used fully 100% of the time, mindbender however returns equal or more mana and provides a lot of extra damage, there is never a point in a fight where more damage is not needed for a disc, even on general when waiting for wave 10 on adds as disc you can still dps the boss while dps just hits adds.

[Deleted]

mindbender however returns equal or more mana and provides a lot of extra damage, there is never a point in a fight where more damage is not needed for a disc, even on general when waiting for wave 10 on adds as disc you can still dps the boss while dps just hits adds.

People have already shown in this thread that Power Word: Solace returns more mana and is, numerically, the better choice. Don't get me wrong, I love my little Sha fiend and would certainly like to see more of it but given that PW:Sol is a better choice for returning mana and also allows you to make better use of Hymn of Hope (through higher mana return Shadowfiend swings), Mindbender certainly doesn't allow for more mana return.

Arguably, one could suggest that with good PW:Sol use, more spirit could be reforged to crit, thereby compensating the slight loss in DPS from not choosing Mindbender. Now, more DPS is always nice but my point was that if your Mindbender DPS is crucial to successful fight completion then you have larger problems that need addressed.

[Adinora]

Solace is basically a free heal that stacks Eva.

Not to nit pick but this is actually wrong information. It's not Solace that is the "free" heal, it's Holy Fire that does the healing and we already have that in our base abilities - Solace just adds a mana return component. With that in mind it's not vital to spec into Solace, especially as some fights you might not be able to atonement heal as much and mindbender might be better suited in those cases.

Just wanted to clarify for the OP as they mentioned they are new to disc.

[Eijnar]

Since you are new to disc just ignore the debate Solace vs. Mindbender, and focus on learning the fights since that is what makes a grand disc vs. a decent, and that being knowing your fight and CDs, and while Solace might grant slightly better regn. in the "everything is amazing world" Mindbender is far less focus on your part, and most importantly since you are running 3 healers in 10man: damage.

Regarding your logs it does looks overall decent, however, since you are running 3 healers (granted it is the same if you run 2) you really need to dish out more smite, pennance and HF (Or Solace if you choose that path) firstly because you are vastly overhealing content, and disc is meant to be played aggressivly. This is even more important in a 10man enviroment, so get used to Smite, HF and Pennance with the occassionally PW:S / PoM on tanks with SSing your raid before inc. dmg and you will do just fine.

The only thing that will change is that when you get Legendary Meta you will mainly be PW:Sing tanks during the proc for "free" Rapture procs = more crit / mastery from reforging, and the cloak only adds damage (You go for the damage one since it got better stats, plus since disc is mainly about absorbs the healing cloak does f##kall except if you want to go for rankings (Who gives a crap?))

[Deleted]

Not to nit pick but this is actually wrong information. It's not Solace that is the "free" heal, it's Holy Fire that does the healing and we already have that in our base abilities - Solace just adds a mana return component. With that in mind it's not vital to spec into Solace, especially as some fights you might not be able to atonement heal as much and mindbender might be better suited in those cases.

Just wanted to clarify for the OP as they mentioned they are new to disc.

Holy Fire isn't a free heal as it costs mana (a whopping 1.8%). Selecting solace makes it a free heal (so you are saving that 1.8%) and also imbues a mana return component. Both abilities deal damage with Power Word: Solace having a higher minimum damage while Holy Fire has a higher maximum damage but it is only Solace that is a "free" heal.

If you are just getting used to Discipline, then it is indeed more important that you find something that you are comfortable with. It will probably be easier to fire off Mindbender every 30 seconds that it will be to make sure you Solace at least once every 15 seconds. People have suggested that you need to focus on DPS, you don't. You should focus on keeping your raid alive first and foremost with good DPS output being secondary. That would be my take on things, other people might argue differently.

[Adinora]

Holy Fire isn't a free heal as it costs mana (a whopping 1.8%). Selecting solace makes it a free heal (so you are saving that 1.8%) and also imbues a mana return component. Both abilities deal damage with Power Word: Solace having a higher minimum damage while Holy Fire has a higher maximum damage but it is only Solace that is a "free" heal.

If you are just getting used to Discipline, then it is indeed more important that you find something that you are comfortable with. It will probably be easier to fire off Mindbender every 30 seconds that it will be to make sure you Solace at least once every 15 seconds. People have suggested that you need to focus on DPS, you don't. You should focus on keeping your raid alive first and foremost with good DPS output being secondary. That would be my take on things, other people might argue differently.

I suppose I meant that it isn't Solace itself that heals, the base spell is Holy Fire and one just replaces the other. But I should have worded it better, particularly the mana cost.

And you're right, people will tell you you have to get Solace, but it's really a choice. Personally I prefer Mindbender, and I've tried both.

[Exoticheals]

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