Why is it that women can opt out of taking care of a child but men can't?

[Vexxilus]

So what you're saying is you don't want to ice down your balls?

What is that supposed to do? Sperm takes along time to mature. Any damage done to them wouldn't affect any about to be ejaculated. Unless you are proposing maintaining long term damage (6 to 9 months) to a man's ability to reproduce (which is better done with heat) is somehow on an equal footing to a woman paying attention to her own body?

[Deleted]

What is that supposed to do? Sperm takes along time to mature. Any damage done to them wouldn't affect any about to be ejaculated. Unless you are proposing maintaining long term damage (6 to 9 months) to a man's ability to reproduce (which is better done with heat) is somehow on an equal footing to a woman paying attention to her own body?

How many women do you know that know how long their cycle is, exactly? How many women do you know that know what day in their cycle they are in?

[Ivorytemplar]

It doesn't matter how many times you repeat this, both biological parents owe a duty of care to their child, regardless of how they feel about the child. This is to protect the most vulnerable party; the child. Withdrawing financial support in an attempt to force someone to abort a child or face destitution or perpetual reliance on the state is pretty awful. Nothing prevents you from attempting to sway the mother towards your point of view, coercion isn't permitted. Once the child is born your personal feelings towards it are moot, the child's welfare is the priority. Yes I know you're going to pull the "well if the state has a vested interest in it's welfare it should pay" thus completing this circular discussion, but once again the state does not owe the child any greater a duty of care than the rest of it's citizens unless it is the legal guardian.

I agree with the above poster, and would like to add:

I'm not sure how many other insurance companies are like this but my (military) insurance plan covers abortion only when:

-The pregnancy is the result of an act of rape or incest.
A physician must note in the patient’s medical record that it is their good faith belief, based on all available information, that the pregnancy was the result of an act of rape or incest.
-The life of the mother is at risk.
The physician must certify that the abortion was performed because the life of the mother would be endangered if the fetus were carried to term.

That would make an abortion financially unattainable for some women. OP, are you suggesting that in those circumstances you should be able to just walk away, while the women can't? Granted, the average cost of an abortion is about $500, but for some women that's a LOT of money.

Furthermore, I'm not sure if you've been living under a rock for the past 40 years or so, but certain political groups are trying to make abortions illegal except in the above circumstances, and yet more political groups want to make them illegal in all cases. Say you impregnate a woman in Bumblenowhere, USA where abortion is illegal. You invoke your right to walk away. What happens next?

[Destruktion]

Welcome to the discussion. Do you have anything to add or is it just this summary of the point of contention?

I'm surprised that's even a point of contention. I can't imagine there's anyone in this thread who doesn't care about the welfare of the child involved.

[Vexxilus]

And the man has just as much control over his body making a women become pregnant... It actully is 50/50. Infact, if it's not, then more fault should be placed with the men. Because during conception, your sperm invades our body! Keep your swimmers to yourself and not body gets hurt. No? Don't like that way of thinking? Tough.

Unless it was rape then there was an invitation.

But you are still avoiding the whole post baby being born scenario where a woman can avoid all responsibility for her child via adoption or safe haven drop. You say a man shouldn't have an equal chance at this for some reason. I guess if I was a woman and knew I could never be made a parent against my will and could have a child and the man would be forced to financially support that decision I wouldn't want to give it up either. Equality for all, or at least until it affects women negatively.

[AeneasBK]

I think this is my favourite post in this whole benighted thead.

Never thought I'd use an MMOC quote as a signature

EDIT: I also plan on using the word benighted a hell of a lot more

- - - Updated - - -

Unless it was rape then there was an invitation.

But you are still avoiding the whole post baby being born scenario where a woman can avoid all responsibility for her child via adoption or safe haven drop. You say a man shouldn't have an equal chance at this for some reason. I guess if I was a woman and knew I could never be made a parent against my will and could have a child and the man would be forced to financially support that decision I wouldn't want to give it up either. Equality for all, or at least until it affects women negatively.

As a man you will never be made a parent against your will. Unless you get raped. Seems pretty equal

[cyndallis]

No? Don't like that way of thinking? Tough.

I don't know. I think with the rising cost of welfare and the increasing social acceptance of things like Plan B and RU-486 there will be a slow shift towards the courts placing more weight in the decision a woman makes regarding her conception/pregnancy and the impact it has on her partner and society.

I'm not saying I agree - I completely agree that dead beat fathers should be responsible for caring, or at least contributing to their offspring's development.

That said though, I tend to be on the pro-life side of the debate and if I had my way abortion would only be legal if it immediately threatened the life of the mother. Neither side should be in for a free ride - aborting a child because you were too lazy to consider the outcome of sleeping with another person (regardless of contraceptives used and/or their presumed effectiveness) makes you a disgusting person - IMHO.

And you can argue until you're blue in the face about the legal definition of a child and a foetus, sentience and body autonomy - at the end of the day you've ended the life of what would have been a child.

[Requiem4aDr3am]

just like to point out that icing the testicles results in a higher chance of pregnancy. If you want to lower potency you have to use heat.

[Vexxilus]

How many women do you know that know how long their cycle is, exactly? How many women do you know that know what day in their cycle they are in?

Not something I ask the women I work with but I've had a few that refused to have sex when it would be to "iffy" to use one's words. I dated this one girl in San Diego whose family seemed to have remarkably fertile women and she would only have sex during one week of her cycle and she tracked that shit like a hawk. My current girlfriend works at fertility clinic and tracks her cycle on a calendar with temperature readings she takes every morning. But I think that has more to do with her job and wanting to speak from experience and not be hypocritical when speaking with clients.

[Deleted]

Abort, give up, drop child off at safe heaven... you can have equal rights, when you have equal morals.

how about we look at safe haven, if i as a father doesn't want to be one, takes my child, and leaves it there i have just committed a felony, i have kidnapped my child, whereas if a woman does it that's peachy keen?

[Deleted]

Why is "don't put your dick in her in the first place" not an option?

They think it's a right.

[Vexxilus]

As a man you will never be made a parent against your will. Unless you get raped. Seems pretty equal

Because paternity fraud is just something men made up to scare other men?

[Deleted]

Because paternity fraud is just something men made up to scare other men?

Oh no, all the women want to steal your sperm, the horror!

[Deleted]

Because paternity fraud is just something men made up to scare other men?

I'm under the impression it's beyond a rare occurrence, any data on the matter would be appreciable.

[Deleted]

As a man you will never be made a parent against your will. Unless you get raped. Seems pretty equal

but the state can, will, and does make you pay child support to your rapist.

so no not in any sense of the word.

[Vexxilus]

Oh no, all the women want to steal your sperm, the horror!

Do you even know what paternity fraud is? It doesn't involve the sperm of guy paying child support.

[Deleted]

Do you even know what paternity fraud is? It doesn't involve the sperm of guy paying child support.

Oh, I thought you were talking about spermjacking and tricking a man into becoming a father.

Yes, I know what that is and that it's massively overblown by paranoid men.

[Deleted]

Oh, I thought you were talking about spermjacking and tricking a man into becoming a father.

Yes, I know what that is and that it's massively overblown by paranoid men.

No it's not. It usually happens when women start to lose their looks. Women realise that their biological clock is ticking and since they are less attractive than they were they lie to men and pretend to want them until they are married or pregnant. Then she reveals her true colors.

Or they trick men who don't have a lot of experience with women. I feel sorry for those guys.

[Deleted]

No it's not. It usually happens when women start to lose their looks. Women realise that their biological clock is ticking and since they are less attractive than they were they lie to men and pretend to want them until they are married or pregnant. Then she reveals her true colors.

Or they trick men who don't have a lot of experience with women. I feel sorry for those guys.

Both cases are massively overblown by paranoid men.

[Deleted]

No it's not. It usually happens when women start to lose their looks. Women realise that their biological clock is ticking and since they are less attractive than they were they lie to men and pretend to want them until they are married or pregnant. Then she reveals her true colors.

Or they trick men who don't have a lot of experience with women. I feel sorry for those guys.

No it's not.

Citation needed.

It usually happens when women start to lose their looks.

Well that's not at all demeaning nor sexist is it?

Women realise that their biological clock is ticking and since they are less attractive than they were they lie to men and pretend to want them until they are married or pregnant.

All of this is baseless until you provide evidence for these assertions, paternity fraud does take place; But on the scale you're hinting at, it's nothing short of miraculous i've not been spermjacked yet by some evul wimminz.

Or they trick men who don't have a lot of experience with women. I feel sorry for those guys.

Going good so far, thanks for your concern.