Warrior 100 Talents changed.

[Crisius]

Snip

Well, I suppose at least it's a step in the right direction in regards to making haste a viable candidate for second secondary stat in the coming expansion. With our crit % being back down at top-geared raiders sitting on 20-odd-percent thanks to how awesome strength classes have it, mastery value is going to be pretty low for the first tier or two. With the relatively low rage-gain we have thanks to the same reason as stated above, and how bad CDR would actually be if reck was the only real DPS cooldown affected by it, CDR talent seems fairly redundant aswell.

[Deleted]

Due to not being forced to use it during colossus smash, you will easily have 100% uptime on ignite weapon autoattacks.

Yes indeed, but will be enough to burn rage? Maybe i am thinking too far ahead here but bare with me a sec. At start of expansion we will most likely be able to keep 100% ignite uptime (or high enough/close to it) and spend any excess rage into wild strikes. Since we will have low bt crits, less rb's, more room to burn that rage into ws after ignite.

Going into last tier, thinking as it is now, not only we will have 100% ignite uptime, more rbs, more rage to spend as well. Ignite lasts 10sec, and unless dmg can be carried over to next ignite, ie say last 3 sec dmg binded into the new one, we will have problems spending the rage without hs. That is even without counting stance dance for extra rage.

As i said, maybe overthinking it and going too far, blizz would say, hey it works for now and if it doesnt in next tier we will fix/adjust it ><.

[Crisius]

Snip

You will still have "heroic strike", it'll simply grant a buff and do damage as fire instead.

I.E. it doesn't have a 10 second CD if that's how you interpreted the talent.

[Deleted]

Taken from Archimtiros post at 2nd page:

Ignite weapon, 30rage, 1.5sec cd, instant
"ignite your weapon and deal 100% weapon dmg (140% if 1-handed) as fire, and cause your auto attacks to deal fire dmg for 10sec. This ability aint on gcd and replaces hc strike".

So i dont understand how you say we still have hs when specced into ignite. And 10sec is how much ignite lasts, nothing to do with cd.

[Crisius]

Taken from Archimtiros post at 2nd page:

Ignite weapon, 30rage, 1.5sec cd, instant
"ignite your weapon and deal 100% weapon dmg (140% if 1-handed) as fire, and cause your auto attacks to deal fire dmg for 10sec. This ability aint on gcd and replaces hc strike".

So i dont understand how you say we still have hs when specced into ignite. And 10sec is how much ignite lasts, nothing to do with cd.

I said you'll still have "heroic strike", as in you'll still be able to dump those 30 rage into some mediocre damage (the 100/140% weapon damage as fire respectively). You said, and I quote; "we will have problems spending the rage without hs". I assume using ignite weapon before the previous buff runs out simply will refresh your current one back to the original 10 second duration, hence why I thought you implied you were under the impression you could not use ignite weapon again before the buff had run out.

[Oliria]

I said you'll still have "heroic strike", as in you'll still be able to dump those 30 rage into some mediocre damage (the 100/140% weapon damage as fire respectively). You said, and I quote; "we will have problems spending the rage without hs". I assume using ignite weapon before the previous buff runs out simply will refresh your current one back to the original 10 second duration, hence why I thought you implied you were under the impression you could not use ignite weapon again before the buff had run out.

It will diminish the potential of the talent though. If the buff is not allowed to run it's 10 seconds duration my guess is the value of the talent is diminished, question is if we will need HS as a rage dump outside CS, I doubt it (at least for early expansion).

[apepi]

Does bladestorm count as an auto attack?

[Deleted]

Well, I suppose at least it's a step in the right direction in regards to making haste a viable candidate for second secondary stat in the coming expansion. With our crit % being back down at top-geared raiders sitting on 20-odd-percent thanks to how awesome strength classes have it, mastery value is going to be pretty low for the first tier or two. With the relatively low rage-gain we have thanks to the same reason as stated above, and how bad CDR would actually be if reck was the only real DPS cooldown affected by it, CDR talent seems fairly redundant aswell.

Im pretty sure that CDR will affect more than just recklessness. T60 + T90 talents are imho a safe bet to be affected aswell. Possibly even Heroic Leap.

It also depends on how much rating you need to get 1% readiness in the end. If you can get 50% readiness with just 1 item (like it is today), then it will most certainly be worth it.

[Saurus]

bladestorm and stormbolt swapping places? so now even less synergy in the builds ..... what kind of decision is shockwave vs stormbolt ... oh and lol dragon roar. what a fail that talent has been since day 1.

[Crisius]

It will diminish the potential of the talent though. If the buff is not allowed to run it's 10 seconds duration my guess is the value of the talent is diminished, question is if we will need HS as a rage dump outside CS, I doubt it (at least for early expansion).

You're right, in the hypothetical scenario that you would have just enough rage and proccs to use ignite weapon every 10 seconds to keep up the buff and spent all your excess rage on raging blow. Looking at the DPE of ignite weapon vs. wild strike, ignite weapon does more damage than wild strike, making wild strike redundant outside of bloodsurge proccs.

Keep in mind, also, that the sims Collision posted are with current gear and rage-gain, which is a lot higher than it is going to be early-expansion. Meaning that the talent is already "diminished" in the sense you suggest, while still being rather good. Using ignite weapon in early expansion will be more beneficial since mastery value and synergy will be lower due to having low crit, and will likely make most warriors go for haste over mastery until at least the second tier (assuming no further changes are made to enrage mechanics).

Im pretty sure that CDR will affect more than just recklessness. T60 + T90 talents are imho a safe bet to be affected aswell. Possibly even Heroic Leap.

It also depends on how much rating you need to get 1% readiness in the end. If you can get 50% readiness with just 1 item (like it is today), then it will most certainly be worth it.

I certainly hope so, but it's still early to tell. I'd like to see some sims with storm bolt, bloodbath, reck and possibly colossus smash affected by CDR.

[Deleted]

bladestorm and stormbolt swapping places? so now even less synergy in the builds ..... what kind of decision is shockwave vs stormbolt ... oh and lol dragon roar. what a fail that talent has been since day 1.

It's a perfect change on the way to a less CC heavy PvP, this will happend to the rest of the classes aswell just wait for it.

[Deleted]

It seems petty but it really bothers me that they didn't name Ignite Weapon something less fancy but more Warrior Orientated like Deadly Accuracy. It's basically designed to make your Auto Attacks ignore armor but without cocking up PvP right?
Less CC in PvP is great, however making the kill window smaller because there's less CC may end up with design going more into Burst because other wise... Well shit just won't die. Playing KFC last season with 20+ seconds of CC however knowing what we know now that CC will be reduced by 50% or more, Blizzard will try to go for the "don't just randomly CC, use it more effectively" but I have a strange feeling it'll turn more into "anyone not playing defensive until 50% dampening can't actually land a kill".

As for PvE, I really dislike the idea of passive damage increases, however with the state Fury will be at the start of the expansion (comparing it to T14 with no crit buff x_x) I'll happily take Ignite Weapon. There is no way in sweet baby Jesus Hell CDR will affect CS. Not a chance, if it does I will eat my monitor.

[Crisius]

There is no way in sweet baby Jesus Hell CDR will affect CS. Not a chance, if it does I will eat my monitor.

I'll grab a fork and join you. We're allowed to dream though.

[Deleted]

I said you'll still have "heroic strike", as in you'll still be able to dump those 30 rage into some mediocre damage (the 100/140% weapon damage as fire respectively). You said, and I quote; "we will have problems spending the rage without hs". I assume using ignite weapon before the previous buff runs out simply will refresh your current one back to the original 10 second duration, hence why I thought you implied you were under the impression you could not use ignite weapon again before the buff had run out.

If anything, it'll replace HS with a weaker HS, you can still manage your Rage with, while also giving you passive 100% Armor Pen on Autohits, AS WELL AS any Ignite you can or have to put in outside of CS, will also ingore 100% of the Target's Armor. I still don't see the whole picture of it devalueing our Rage Management. If anything, it'll weaken our CS Phase a little bit, while boosting DPS outside. We still don't know how it's going to look like Gameplay-wise once we're stripped off our 2P. It may as well add more Management to it. And we still don't know anything about other Changes to our class. They said they'd want to carry classes away from secondary-dependency. That'd mean that there WILL be Major changes to our Mastery and BT/CS, that'll address Crit-dependency, just to boost up our STR value. I can't seem to find the Blue Post they stated that in, but I still have it in my mind, because I kind of don't like our Crit-dependency AT ALL (while I do like the Gameplay as it is right now, though). So I guess the whole thing is pretty pointless, since we don't know how things will work out in the end and what benefits IW could actually have, other than the Autohit Buff.

Edit: The current Sims that have been made also don't show a lot of that "Go away from secondaries".
Maybe someone could tickle an update out of the Devs, on the whole picture about Secondaries vs Primaries?

[Alonzo33]

It seems petty but it really bothers me that they didn't name Ignite Weapon something less fancy but more Warrior Orientated like Deadly Accuracy. It's basically designed to make your Auto Attacks ignore armor but without cocking up PvP right?
Less CC in PvP is great, however making the kill window smaller because there's less CC may end up with design going more into Burst because other wise... Well shit just won't die. Playing KFC last season with 20+ seconds of CC however knowing what we know now that CC will be reduced by 50% or more, Blizzard will try to go for the "don't just randomly CC, use it more effectively" but I have a strange feeling it'll turn more into "anyone not playing defensive until 50% dampening can't actually land a kill".

As for PvE, I really dislike the idea of passive damage increases, however with the state Fury will be at the start of the expansion (comparing it to T14 with no crit buff x_x) I'll happily take Ignite Weapon. There is no way in sweet baby Jesus Hell CDR will affect CS. Not a chance, if it does I will eat my monitor.

i cant see a scenario in which CS will be affected by CDR . it will mess with the rotation/ makes us delay using it or something like that
and i dont think its a good idea.
as for IW , the thing is that the dmg from it wont be affected by CS unlike HS. so the handling with this ability will be completly different.

[Deleted]

According to those translations floating around, there was on stating enrage was removed from the game. So I did a bit of research and noticed it was still active in the demo but who knows if these translations are trolls or if the demo was a older model. Sounds like some things might be changing for us warriors for better or for worse only time will tell.

[Archimtiros]

If anything, it'll replace HS with a weaker HS, you can still manage your Rage with, while also giving you passive 100% Armor Pen on Autohits, AS WELL AS any Ignite you can or have to put in outside of CS, will also ingore 100% of the Target's Armor. I still don't see the whole picture of it devalueing our Rage Management. If anything, it'll weaken our CS Phase a little bit, while boosting DPS outside. We still don't know how it's going to look like Gameplay-wise once we're stripped off our 2P. It may as well add more Management to it. And we still don't know anything about other Changes to our class. They said they'd want to carry classes away from secondary-dependency. That'd mean that there WILL be Major changes to our Mastery and BT/CS, that'll address Crit-dependency, just to boost up our STR value. I can't seem to find the Blue Post they stated that in, but I still have it in my mind, because I kind of don't like our Crit-dependency AT ALL (while I do like the Gameplay as it is right now, though). So I guess the whole thing is pretty pointless, since we don't know how things will work out in the end and what benefits IW could actually have, other than the Autohit Buff.

Edit: The current Sims that have been made also don't show a lot of that "Go away from secondaries".
Maybe someone could tickle an update out of the Devs, on the whole picture about Secondaries vs Primaries?

Current sims are based on current builds and itemization. I know it's not entirely accurate for WoD but it gives an idea of how the ability interacts before significant changes (that we aren't aware of yet). Rest assured new sims will be posted the moment we have new information.

As for IW, it completely devalues and I would go as far as to say destroys rage management.
IW is better than HS, and better than WS outside of CS. It devalues rage management because you no longer need to pool rage for CS.
As long as we have SB and BT procs an RB, either through current high Crit or later yet unknown WoD changes; you will only ever spend 20 rage inside CS (on 2 RBs).
Even if those were WS that's only 60 rage spent, before factoring the rage gained from both BTs and auto attacks.

Whole idea with IW, it doesn't matter when you use it, during or outside of CS makes no difference since it already ignores armor.
That's 120 less rage used per CS cycle; meaning no more rage pooling = no rage managment

Also means less GCD management, since IW like HS is off the GCD. Unless we find ourselves with a new low cost way to fill GCDs, I think IW will definitely be the "poor mans Fury".

- - - Updated - - -

i cant see a scenario in which CS will be affected by CDR . it will mess with the rotation

This, not to mention; If the rotation did somehow support it (BT cd would have to be reduced) would be overpowered as shit.

We explored reducing CS cd before, either through haste or otherwise. And it just doesn't work without significantly reworking the rotation, which won't happen. Same with a 1s GCD.

[Vojka]

Not sure if already been posted but for arms fans:

'Overpower is still in for our current build. That PR build was taken while we were in the middle of toying with Arms' rotation.'
Tweeted by Celestalon

Makes me happy, I like overpower but at the same time a log of turd is better then the current arms rotation, and as a fan of arms I am glad they are working on it to hopefully breath some life into a very dull rotation.

[CollisionTD]

Edit: The current Sims that have been made also don't show a lot of that "Go away from secondaries".
Maybe someone could tickle an update out of the Devs, on the whole picture about Secondaries vs Primaries?

I wouldn't put a lot of stock in the absolute numbers, we're interested in relative numbers, aka how how much of a % does haste go up in value, and how the changes could affect our rotation. The absolute numbers can be shifted by increasing the amount of budget necessary for a % of those stats.

[Darkfriend]

Does bladestorm count as an auto attack?

No. You do, however, autoattack during bladestorm.