So much "hard core" theorycrafting is around patchwerk and so wrong.

[Deleted]

Coders must be laughing at Blizzard for the "hard core" scene of the game concerning that. Whenever you try to learn a new class all the "pros" of the game talk 90% of the time about patchwerk, without even knowing it. Sure, some minority does know what's going on, but the overwhelming majority of info (even from hard core players) does not apply to the real world (of warcraft).

For example, there are some talents in some classes that only apply to the situation of 1) The boss is stationary and single target and 2) You are perfect at your rotation. We all know that not all bosses are stationary or even approximately. Some will be, approximately, e.g. Malkorok, but some will be chaos, e.g. Spoils, or basically most others. But the second reason is hard to swallow at least for most hard core players.

It's hard to swallow because it hits at their pride. It would mean they also aren't perfect if they acknowledge it. But people aren't perfect, and they will never be, so trying to assume a simulation, performed by a computer with 95%+ accuracy (they have settings of lower accuracy sometimes) will be performed similarly by a human in most situations is not realistic. (unless you're an arcane mage in cataclysm in baleroc).

[Deleted]

That's why you simulate for non-patchwerk if you want to. Or use common sense.

[Bullettime]

Meanwhile, SimC continues to stay relatively accurate with its 10 different encounter type simulations.

You don't use SimC rankings to rank DPS against one another as real time curveballs come into play, but SimC has been spot on for stat analysis. Stat analysis backed up by actual math.

[Deleted]

Everybody who I ever talked to about a patchwork fight knows what the term is used for. It's not like it's hard to understand. I don't know what you are butthurt over, but it sure as hell can't be about Patchwork as I don't believe people don't know what it's about when used. They don't have to do the boss to understand it.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

Patchwerk fights are just used as a sort of control group... thats it.. another random, rambling rant from you..

[Juvencus]

All models, in every field, scientific or not require certain assumptions to work in/with. Which is why we use many models (simcraft+class/spec specific tools) combined with gameplay experience to produce accurate theorycrafting.

[Deleted]

Everybody who I ever talked to about a patchwork fight knows what the term is used for. It's not like it's hard to understand. I don't know what you are butthurt over, but it sure as hell can't be about Patchwork as I don't believe people don't know what it's about when used. They don't have to do the boss to understand it.

My guess is that they got proven wrong about their gearing/gemming/reforging/talent choices using SimC and now vent their anger at the users of the program.

[Deusvult]

not sure if trolling or serious

Infracted

[Taojnhy]

Coders must be laughing at Blizzard for the "hard core" scene of the game concerning that. Whenever you try to learn a new class all the "pros" of the game talk 90% of the time about patchwerk, without even knowing it. Sure, some minority does know what's going on, but the overwhelming majority of info (even from hard core players) does not apply to the real world (of warcraft).

For example, there are some talents in some classes that only apply to the situation of 1) The boss is stationary and single target and 2) You are perfect at your rotation. We all know that not all bosses are stationary or even approximately. Some will be, approximately, e.g. Malkorok, but some will be chaos, e.g. Spoils, or basically most others. But the second reason is hard to swallow at least for most hard core players.

It's hard to swallow because it hits at their pride. It would mean they also aren't perfect if they acknowledge it. But people aren't perfect, and they will never be, so trying to assume a simulation, performed by a computer with 95%+ accuracy (they have settings of lower accuracy sometimes) will be performed similarly by a human in most situations is not realistic. (unless you're an arcane mage in cataclysm in baleroc).

It seems like you don't understand the following:

1) The purpose of modeling theoretical maximum DPS
2) Why Patchwerk in particular is usually used
3) The existence of various models attempting to account for particular mechanics
3) Your "second reason".

[Deleted]

In some points he's right. Simcraft, as all "theorycrafting"-tools have an inherent flaw: They use general modells, e.g. Patchwork or "heavy Movmenet" or whatever. And to be honest, tools like Simcraft are not real theorycrafting, they are tools to generate statistics about stats and talents and so on, based on mathematical modells, yes, but they are not real maths.

Every of this modells has the flaw to be incorrect regarding actual boss encounters, also boss mechanics can change everything. I won't say these tools are crap, they are sometimes good appromiations, but are limited by design, depending on the actual boss encounter and more so on how accurate the class moduls really are, so their result can be good, but also can be very wrong, and we have to be honest, we can't really know.

[Deleted]

In some points he's right. Simcraft, as all "theorycrafting"-tools have an inherent flaw: They use general modells, e.g. Patchwork or "heavy Movmenet" or whatever. And to be honest, tools like Simcraft are not real theorycrafting, they are tools to generate statistics about stats and talents and so on, based on mathematical modells, yes, but they are not real maths.

Every of this modells has the flaw to be incorrect regarding actual boss encounters, also boss mechanics can change everything. I won't say these tools are crap, they are sometimes good appromiations, but are limited by design, depending on the actual boss encounter and more so on how accurate the class moduls really are, so their result can be good, but also can be very wrong, and we have to be honest, we can't really know.

You can simulate any kind of fight in SimC. The tool is only as good as the user.

[Deja Thoris]

Thanks for stating the blindingly obvious yet again. Patchwerk sims show potential dps. Anyone with half a brain know real results differ due to circumstances such as movement / number of mobs / whatever.

[ACES]

So do you just wake up each morning and think "What is going to be my rant post on MMO-Champion today"?

[nekobaka]

Uh yeah patchwork doesnt apply to everything and those who pay attention are aware of that. Unless you are complaining about the Mr. Robo addicts including those that QQ about its necessity and reforging being too tedious and spend more time trying to squeeze a percent from their gear than their game play.

Tools are useful, but having them doesnt mean you are intelligent.

[crunk]

patchwerk sims are a starting point. only jerks on the forums who be like "omg x class needs nerf y class 2 far behind need buff pls" based on the front page of simcraft results are doing it wrong.

[Darsithis]

There is really no point to a thread that makes such a generalization and there is nowhere constructive such a thread could go.

Closing.