how do you deal with undercutting (JC/Enchanting)

[dwightyo39]

I'm kind of new to gold farming, and did some casual ore shuffling the last month or so. My plan was to save up gems and enchanting mats to sell cut gems/enchants now that the new arena season is here. I didn't realistically expext to get "rich" overnight, but so far the sales aren't what I wanted them to be.

I figured demand would drive up the prices (and it kind of did for about 4hrs after the patch went live) but values continue to fall. It seems gems are undercut within 5 seconds of posting. Since I farmed my ore they are 100% profit. Its getting hard to even sell due to the immediate undercuts.

On the other hand I watched sha crystal prices for a month and purchased cheaper ones. I figured I could sell some enchants, but that is proving to be worse. I managed to sell a couple wrist enchants for good profit, but that ended quickly. There are plenty of people selling dancing steel/jade serpent for peanuts. Its like they are trying to be a charity.

Anyway, tldr, what do the cool kids do when they have fierce undercutting?

[Misuteri]

I basically look at the JC market completely different than people trying to maximize gold. Since I farm a ton of mats from warbringers I sell my ores prospect Kyparite. Any gem worth less than 50g I just ignore and never cut unless it's a useless color like blue. Oranges are your money makers.

I'll undercut people 10g at a time selling stuff like that because the people that are intent on being 1c cheaper than the next guy will buy and try and flip it at their higher price. I'll do this all day long. The gems cost me nothing, the Golden Lotus I'm getting, 40+ a day, I use to transmute green quality oranges and sometimes greens/purples and flip them. Surprisingly enough the player base is completely ignorant that "Perfect" cuts have the same stats and you can't sell them at prices worth cutting 10 greens to proc one or two.

Lastly there's an old adage with enchanters that I know, the mats are ALWAYS worth more than the scroll. The sole exception to this rule is Mongoose which people will still buy for an exceptional price. The only enchants that sell consistently in current content at good prices on my server are 80 stats chest and Pandaren Step. They're used by 90% of player base on every set.

[dwightyo39]

I generally clear BT with a couple characters weekly. I do it for glaives but make ok gold selling cloth and mongoose.

You're right though. I did better selling gems for substantial undercuts than I do trying to barely undercut. I guess I had unreasonable expectations of people gemming/enchanting their fancy new honor/conquest gear.

[S7orm]

i'm usually the one undercutting

[Deleted]

Unfortunately for more mundane items, then the AH is an undercutting game. Most people use TSM which mostly automates the undercutting and relisting. IT then becomes your TSM v someone elses TSM and people just camp the AH.

You have to find new markets really where its not so competitive.
You can have such strageies such as deep undercutting, but if you are using TSM then it will just undercut still, especiallu if its backed up by a shuffling king who has substantial resources behind him.

Your experience does not surprise me but you should realise this is the end of expansion and the demand for items compared to suppliers is low. No new content. Bots and other traders dumping stuff and people quitting wow either permanently, for the summer or till the next expansion. At this stage of an expansion the people making money are generally those with a very efficient shuffling machine , those with a niche or those offering a service that people want. It's importnat you understand this as it makes your experience make sense. Read forums and find out how other players still manage to mae money.

Just two other matters.
1. All servers are different in terms of supply and demand, but all things being equal they will follow this trend.
2. Farmed ore shouldnt be looked on as strictly costing you nothing because it does cost you time to farm it.

[Mormolyce]

I go into their store and flip a coin, then tell them in a quiet but menacing voice to choose heads or tails. While holding a cattle bolt gun.

[jhneoh]

Since I farmed my ore they are 100% profit.

This is false. The ore itself has a value. Your profit is the value of the gems sold minus the value of the ore.

[systm]

Since I farmed my ore they are 100% profit.

I'm not too heavy into the gold making scene, but looking at this even from a common sense perspective, that adage is going to cost you money.

[Farabee]

Since I farmed my ore they are 100% profit.

Not necessarily. Time is money, as the goblins remind us, and you need to find the most efficient way to turn your time into money. You can quickly turn Ghost Iron into a number of things, so you may want to explore other avenues.

[Dsfunctional]

Not necessarily. Time is money, as the goblins remind us, and you need to find the most efficient way to turn your time into money. You can quickly turn Ghost Iron into a number of things, so you may want to explore other avenues.

Farabee and others are dead on - if you don't have a problem farming mass quantities of ghost iron and your looking to make some easy gold this late in the expansion, your best bet is probably just to see the ore to others. As each realm has it's on market I can't speak for yours, but stacks of ghost iron are still going for an easy 40g a stack on mine, where some cuts are below that. I'm not a farmer, I purchase ore as time truly is money but if your realm's market is as competitive as it seems by what you've said, you shouldn't have a problem moving ore easily.

If you would rather continue to dabble into the JC market, or other markets for that matter it is all about time, and how often you can repost. I only play with the JC market and on my server there are approximately six or so of us that "control" the market and are constantly undercutting each other. It's competitive and takes time. This late in the expansion I'm not too concerned about constantly undercutting though as I've just made up a routine that seems to work decently which I'm happy with. 8AM post auctions, Noon cancel/repost auctions, 4PM cancel/repost auctions, and for the last time 8PM/9PM cancel/repost auctions. At the end of the day, it's all about what works for you. I don't feel the need to sit in front of the auction house for hours on end this late in the expansion, so it works. But on a server with more competition my current method may not be a feasible option. It takes time to learn the market, and the others who control it. Reading forums/guides online is helpful and should give you a general idea of how to do things, but only you can figure out what works best for you giving your realm's market and how much time/effort you would like to put into it.

[Avada Kedavra]

I go into their store and flip a coin, then tell them in a quiet but menacing voice to choose heads or tails. While holding a cattle bolt gun.

Awesome reference, although I was PISSED at the end of that movie.....

OT: ALWAYS undercut - within reason. If your stuff is not selling, you are not making gold.

[egge]

Don't play the camping game, just be patient with it. I post and forget.

Normal principles apply, buy materials on the weekend (when demand drops) then sell on Tuesday - Thursday.

This last Wednesday alone, I sold about 60k worth of gems and enchants with 5 total postings. 8 am, 12 pm, 4 pm, 8 pm and midnight.

ITs 100% possible to still make decent money this late in the game, I'm averaging about 150k a month profit with gems and enchants. It sure helps to buy 400 primal diamonds at around 205 last Sunday (prepatch) and seeing diamonds listing at 275 now.

This screenshot is 3 days old, but since then I've made another 50k profit.

THIS is merely 2 months worth of data!

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post25424583

- - - Updated - - -

I basically look at the JC market completely different than people trying to maximize gold. Since I farm a ton of mats from warbringers I sell my ores prospect Kyparite. Any gem worth less than 50g I just ignore and never cut unless it's a useless color like blue. Oranges are your money makers.

I'll undercut people 10g at a time selling stuff like that because the people that are intent on being 1c cheaper than the next guy will buy and try and flip it at their higher price. I'll do this all day long. The gems cost me nothing, the Golden Lotus I'm getting, 40+ a day, I use to transmute green quality oranges and sometimes greens/purples and flip them. Surprisingly enough the player base is completely ignorant that "Perfect" cuts have the same stats and you can't sell them at prices worth cutting 10 greens to proc one or two.

Lastly there's an old adage with enchanters that I know, the mats are ALWAYS worth more than the scroll. The sole exception to this rule is Mongoose which people will still buy for an exceptional price. The only enchants that sell consistently in current content at good prices on my server are 80 stats chest and Pandaren Step. They're used by 90% of player base on every set.

This depends on the server. I sell most and all enchants for profit (those 2 you mentioned are my fastest selling.) Look at the sceenshot in my previous post and look at the average selling price.

Now consider my costs-

Spirit dust - 1.5g
Essence - 7.5g
Shard - 20g
Sha - 110g

[Deleted]

As you said it depends on your server. If it is very competitive then you will be undercut no matter what within a few minutes and left to pick your auctions out of the postbox. Its about now people are quitting and dumping items on the ah.

[egge]

As you said it depends on your server. If it is very competitive then you will be undercut no matter what within a few minutes and left to pick your auctions out of the postbox. Its about now people are quitting and dumping items on the ah.

Thing is, my server is super competitive (in the top 5 in server pop/faction.) Bleeding Hollow. It doesn't matter how how "competitive" it is if demand keeps up with supply. The key is knowing what the sale %'s are (TSM provides these) and adjusting your post quantities to reflect those.

My auctions get undercut literally within 15 minutes, and I post about 150-200 gem/enchants at a time, but I average about a 35-45% sale rate when I check my mailbox half a day later.

Maybe it's my specific server and how the competition operates, but Im pretty sure almost all of my competition has figured out that extreme camping/undercutting doesn't really help you in the long run (fees + driving prices down), when you can just wait a couple of hours and sell half your stuff anyway.

[Deleted]

Thing is, my server is super competitive (in the top 5 in server pop/faction.) Bleeding Hollow. It doesn't matter how how "competitive" it is if demand keeps up with supply. The key is knowing what the sale %'s are (TSM provides these) and adjusting your post quantities to reflect those.

My auctions get undercut literally within 15 minutes, and I post about 150-200 gem/enchants at a time, but I average about a 35-45% sale rate when I check my mailbox half a day later.

Maybe it's my specific server and how the competition operates, but Im pretty sure almost all of my competition has figured out that extreme camping/undercutting doesn't really help you in the long run (fees + driving prices down), when you can just wait a couple of hours and sell half your stuff anyway.

Im not saying I disagree with you, but uts just a strategy that works on your server. It wont work on every server. Super competitive on mine is within 1-2 minutes i.e you will be undercut before you have finished listing. This was a bit of a shock from being on a low pop server. I think its the other end of the scale though. It makes sense to use TSM, post masses etc, but there are more lucrative ways than traditional gem enchants etc.

[egge]

Im not saying I disagree with you, but uts just a strategy that works on your server. It wont work on every server. Super competitive on mine is within 1-2 minutes i.e you will be undercut before you have finished listing. This was a bit of a shock from being on a low pop server. I think its the other end of the scale though. It makes sense to use TSM, post masses etc, but there are more lucrative ways than traditional gem enchants etc.

I'm not sure if its easier to make money being on a low pop server or a high pop server, but for me, having been on both types and having made a million or two (I have no idea how much gold I have sitting on servers I don't play on anymore!) throughout my wow playing time -- it seems super high pop (like tichondrious) are the best bet to make money -- at least selling gems and enchants.

Huge economy so you just need a small piece of the pie, everything sells so fast!

Just curious, but what are some more lucrative ways? Mass alchemy? Glyphs? Pets?

I profit about 150k a month doing gems and enchants, and it requires very little effort (I mostly buy uncut straight off the AH cut/enchant and sell.)