Putin puts troops in western Russia on alert in drill

[Shalcker]

I don't know what planet you live on, but where I'm from Europe and Russia hold very different core political beliefs;aka not founded upon liberalism.

You don't have to have exact same political core beliefs for cooperation.

We also have the most liberal president in pretty much entire Russian history; really, if anyone will replace him he'd have to be decidedly a lot less liberal to be popular. Only Putin's huge personal rating holds his liberal policies.

It is as liberal as it gets now; it will not get any better in next 10-20 years.

Also, proximity is more often than not a factor for tension and disagreement...

Nothing wrong with tensions here and there as long as you're ready to talk and reach compromise.

Really, just imagine that - EU being "net resource exporter" just as long as it includes Russia... Ultimate "diversification" - your resources being protected by being part of your own system

It's a lot of work, sure, but isn't it good goal?

[Rukentuts]

It is as liberal as it gets now; it will not get any better in next 10-20 years.

Actually it was as liberal as it got before Putin was "elected". It's an autocracy now.

[Shalcker]

Actually it was as liberal as it got before Putin was "elected". It's an autocracy now.

There is a lot more to "liberal" then just people in power.

[Rukentuts]

There is a lot more to "liberal" then just people in power.

I'm talking in terms of social rights. Rights are being squashed right and left, but that doesn't matter because omg shirtless presidential pix.

[Thunderball]

I'm talking in terms of social rights. Rights are being squashed right and left, but that doesn't matter because omg shirtless presidential pix.

Let people decide for themselves will ya? You sound like you know what's best for the people over there.

[Kjalar]

Actually it was as liberal as it got before Putin was "elected". It's an autocracy now.

I'm talking in terms of social rights. Rights are being squashed right and left, but that doesn't matter because omg shirtless presidential pix.

Typical POV of a typical "well-informed" foreigner. "Before Putin was elected", there was Yeltsin. There's a good reason why many Russians like "now" way more than "before Putin was elected". And - just in case you really are that dumb to not understand it - shirtless pictures is not that reason. So, you can take your preaches about liberties and shove them where the sun doesn't shine - if that's the price we have to pay to live like actual human beings and not like homeless dogs as before, I'm totally fine with that. Actually, you know what? Stopping your useless preaches is not a trade-off at all.

[Rukentuts]

Let people decide for themselves will ya? You sound like you know what's best for the people over there.

I'll let people decide for themselves when they don't force their misery on others by attacking and annexing other countries.

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Typical POV of a typical "well-informed" foreigner. "Before Putin was elected", there was Yeltsin.

And before Hitler there was Hindenburg. Standard of living improved greatly under Hitler as well.

[Kjalar]

I'll let people decide for themselves when they don't force their misery on others by attacking and annexing other countries.

Let's start with the fact you're not in the position to "let people decide for themselves", you patronizing jerk.

[Skroe]

Typical POV of a typical "well-informed" foreigner. "Before Putin was elected", there was Yeltsin. There's a good reason why many Russians like "now" way more than "before Putin was elected".

You know, this does make sense, but at the same time, it betrays a kind of wishful thinking doesn't it.

Think about how behind the curve the USSR was in 1991. Think about how many decades they spent building a system seemingly based on maximizing inefficiency, a system of lies and a lot of BS. Think of how many decades they didn't build institutions, or the foundations of good governance and civil society. That's not a distinctly USSR thing. That's a one-party state thing, when the party becomes so closely intertwined with the state, it is hard to know where one begins and the other ends. But that is the hand the USSR got dealt.

And then all of a sudden the USSR was no more, and in order to survive - and let's be clear, modern Russia could have easily been a fraction of it's present size - they embrace necessary and proven Western style reform.

Now putting all this together: how was the time "before Putin was elected" going to be anything but completely fucking horrible? This is something that is just unbelievable to me. The USSR loses the Cold War, badly, and you expected to be okay on the other end of it? I dare say, every terrible thing that happened to Russia, from the messy partitioning of state enterprises to the Chechniyan Wars to the 1998 Financial Crisis are entirely predictable when, looking forward from 1991, and comparing where Russia is and where it will be, the road that would need to be traveled.

The shame of it is, that was probably "your chance". Putin's so squashed nascent Russian democracy, especially since he got reelected, it'll take nothing less than him kicking the bucket and an old-fashioned Soviet style rejection of him, to bring Russia out of being an autocratic state once again. Maybe next time, you'll manage to keep it.

I'm not betting on you though.

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Let's start with the fact you're not in the position to "let people decide for themselves", you patronizing jerk.

Of course we are. As fist among equals in NATO, we're responsible for European security.

[Cynep]

Similar claims were made for Western Ukraine during maidan; except there people asked to mark jew houses with stars for later... Likely provocation in both cases.

I call you a liar. Not only there were no anti-semitic acts by Euromaidan forces, but Right Sector specifically contacted Israeli ambassador to assure they had no quarrel with Jews, their enemy was the corrupted president.

[malgin]

I call you a liar. Not only there were no anti-semitic acts by Euromaidan forces, but Right Sector specifically contacted Israeli ambassador to assure they had no quarrel with Jews, their enemy was the corrupted president.

What was the point to do all this thing at all? Couldn't Mandan riots wait till the next elections?

Your point is that Ukranian pro-Mandanian people want to exercute russians over jews That's hilarious.


(One country, one fatherland, one nation, Hang Russian!)

PS. If you are from US/UK you can be IP blocked so try to use proxy.

[Shalcker]

I call you a liar.

"Claims being made" cannot be lie because i've seen them with my own eyes; unsubstantiated rumours perhaps, but it wouldn't be surprising.

Not only there were no anti-semitic acts by Euromaidan forces, but Right Sector specifically contacted Israeli ambassador to assure they had no quarrel with Jews, their enemy was the corrupted president.

One hand simply doesn't know what other hand does. "Right sector" is bunch of pretty loosely-connected radical groups.

Did anyone actually said in response to recent provocation that "yes, we in fact support this poster and do require jews to register, or else"?

[Kellhound]

We're talking about Europe, actually. Russia is only "enemy" of US; it makes much more sense for Russia to have Europe as ally, same for Europe. Existing commitments prevent it, but like everything else they might change eventually.

Not very likely. The countries in NATO that used to be under Russian control do not seem very interested in getting back into bed with them anytime soon. And being aligned with Russia has not been good for the rest of Europe generally the past 100 years....

[Cynep]

What was the point to do all this thing at all? Couldn't Mandan riots wait till the next elections?

Your point is that Ukranian pro-Mandanian people want to exercute russians over jews That's hilarious.

Not my point, but what you say is actually logical; Israel didn't annex a part of Ukraine and didn't implant armed separatists into Ukrainian cities. Ukrainians have no reasons to hate Jews. Russians on the other hand have at least 5 quite respectable countries who see them as a threat: Poland, three Baltic states and Finland.

And people on Maidan thought they couldn't wait 2 more years until next elections. People were protesting against that union with Russia before it was too late.

"Claims being made" cannot be lie because i've seen them with my own eyes; unsubstantiated rumours perhaps, but it wouldn't be surprising.

OK. False claims were made in attempt to discredit Maidan, without any evidence. Will you agree with this wording?

[Rukentuts]

Not very likely. The countries in NATO that used to be under Russian control do not seem very interested in getting back into bed with them anytime soon. And being aligned with Russia has not been good for the rest of Europe generally the past 100 years....

Considering how rapidly and expansively they've grown since the USSR, why would they? 25 years since it was two different countries and Germany is the powerhouse of Europe. Even the Baltic States have come leaps and bounds economically and socially.

[Kellhound]

Considering how rapidly and expansively they've grown since the USSR, why would they? 25 years since it was two different countries and Germany is the powerhouse of Europe. Even the Baltic States have come leaps and bounds economically and socially.

And that is despite having to bring East Germany up to modern standards!

[TooMuch]

And that is despite having to bring East Germany up to modern standards!

There are some countries that want to leave both EU and NATO. Bulgaria is an example where in a recent poll a (small) majority of the population said they wanted to leave. Not saying that they want to "join" Russia in anyway, but the general feeling there is that especially EU costs them more than it brings.

[Skroe]

There are some countries that want to leave both EU and NATO. Bulgaria is an example where in a recent poll a (small) majority of the population said they wanted to leave. Not saying that they want to "join" Russia in anyway, but the general feeling there is that especially EU costs them more than it brings.

No country every will though. There will be occasional attempts, but nothing will come of it. These are always poor questions. They always stem from a sense of national pride without considering exactly how hard it is out there if you're not part of a major economic power. The drive for more local rule is always strong, but it's in conflict with the simple fact that bigger is better. It's just the nature of large political structures. In the US the "limited federal government" nonsense is the domestic expression of that same feeling. It will never go away. It will always be a pressure.

And certain, Putin's Eurasian Union dream is already dead, especially with NATO planning to arm, train and integrate the border countries that he hoped would be a part of it.

But that's an aside. Georgia and Ukraine and others will probably join somewhere down the line, but, NATO needs to to start thinking more seriously about bringing Japan, Australia, the Phillippines and South Korea into the fold and going global.

[Cybran]

They always stem from a sense of national pride without considering exactly how hard it is out there if you're not part of a major economic power. The drive for more local rule is always strong, but it's in conflict with the simple fact that bigger is better. It's just the nature of large political structures.

When that economic power only serves the interests of select lobby groups and corporations then there is no reason to be part of it as small country. Being a vassal state of France and Germany isn't as apealing as you are trying to make it out to be.

More and more people are finally realizing that.

[Cybran]

Some concrete examples.

For example the egg and dairy production regulations of the EU forced a lot of small farms to close down. The price of Methane will increase by almost double due to EU regulations. The Common Agricultural Policy is unfair to new member states since it pays them less for the same amount of production and farm land. The Green energy subsidies are driving the price of electricity up for regular households. There is brain drain from the periphery to the core member states.

I could go on for hours.