[WoD] Retribution Paladin Megathread

[Reghame]

Numbers aren't something to really discuss right now. If there's one thing that isn't finalized this early, it's numbers. Wait until beta comes out and they start doing real tuning passes before we start talking about this stuff. All we can really theorize about now is the mechanics of what they're doing for us.

its because of these numbers that im worried fred, Showing numbers at ALL in alpha mean they are trying to work with how that mechanic lines up with its competitors. changing said things mean they want them to either be equal, better, or worse than what we have live. thats why im scared as to why they want to change numbers at all and mention them now.

TLDR: not so much the numbers themselves, but why are they making harsh words, a glyph which by no means is part of the spec, close to equal with a core ability when other aspects could be improved upon(aka righteousness's blandness or how the spec will manage in the raid cooldown department, when screams can be heard far and wide about it.)

Hell they coulda made the numbers be 1% ap scaling and id still be saying the same thing as to why they are even changing it when nothing needs done to it

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I never really cared for Harsh Words. Literally

[Fredzilla]

All I'm saying is until we actually get in to test it all ourselves and have concrete evidence to base our statements on, numbers really don't mean much. You can't say harsh words will do more damage than TV when you don't know how much weapon damage we'll realistically have, especially considering the change they made with ap->wpndmg, or how much sp we'll have. Anything numbers is purely inane speculation until we can see it and experience it ourselves.

Edit: And maybe they felt like changing it because literally no one takes that glyph for any reason at all right now. At least no one I've ever seen or heard of.

[Maegor]

The numbers are all just place holders right now. A guess. Rygarius even said in a tweet that the only feedback they are even paying attention to are mechanic changes. It's a waste of time worrying about numbers.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Tbh I wonder what the worst talent in all of them is. Just to hear some thoughts.

[anaxie]

10% attack power to EVERYTHING takes alot away from FV boosting ONLY TV. Especially considering the AP:Weapon damage ratio buff mixed with Hammer being a true execute if wings keeps it's 30 sec sanc wrath time. However Empowered Seals IF rightiousness is not TRUE HASTE. which would be amazing because i think haste "buffs" work multiplicative with eachother so the 10% could grow to become worth 11-12% on it's own. Do not forget also Haste flasks / Food buffs/ 5% raid haste. Raid buff should also work in a similar multi fashion.

That said. For attractiveness sake I still say our greatest concern is AoW and Exo becoming more attractive. Lets not deter from a major goal we need to achieve and push with the devs. This should be something to push in Tweets to devs along with fact Exo is also our only active attack not on Sword of Light scaling.

Anywho..... 10% ap is ALOT if rightiousness is not true haste and attack speed <which wouldn't make sense with them trying to remove different haste types>. Honestly it may be better off to just stay in truth then delay abilities, clusterfuck around with the seal swaps, the passive dps loss going into a weaker seal ect.

That said I believe 10% ap alone beats FV. That is bad design imo. unless a 210% weapon strike is an obscene amount in WoD. We DONT have all the numbers yet :3.

Also loooooooooollllllllllll we could totally get a set bonus that just seals our talent choices for us. You know like a Trinket in SoO and a set bonus in T14 forcing us into Sanc wrath not that anyone should hate hammertime It's da best!

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Anywho lets be honest here. Does anyone in their right mind truely actually believe that 10% AP I mean fuck hammer is 320% AP execute spam button ffs.

Does anyone here NOT beleive 10% ap alone beats FV? I'd say raise that concern with devs but who knkows they might nerf the ap instead of buff FV

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Also I still think Serapham is hot garbage.

[Fredzilla]

Yeah it'd be lovely if they made exo somewhat worthwhile, and lovelier still if they made AoW worth paying even the slightest iota of attention to.

Also, they would never pigeon-hole us into particular talents with our set bonuses. I don't know what you're talking about.

...

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Serapham just reminds me of D3(The name). Mechanically it seems like it's powerful. Keep in mind Hind sight is 50/50 so I'm prone to being wrong. Until availability of Alpha/Beta/omega comes. I can't really judge.

[anaxie]

Serapham is a readiness stat stacking ability. Unless you the conversion per point of readiness is extremely generous and we have something more appealing then just wings that ability is complete shit. Im not building more core stats around a 10 second buff. Idk about you guys but that is retarded.

Excuse me 5 HP every 30 seconds AND most of our core stats. Noty

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I've said it many times with classes who have Sancticy of Battle mechanics readiness is just a shit version of Haste.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Serapham is a readiness stat stacking ability. Unless you the conversion per point of readiness is extremely generous and we have something more appealing then just wings that ability is complete shit. Im not building more core stats around a 10 second buff. Idk about you guys but that is retarded.

Excuse me 5 HP every 30 seconds AND most of our core stats. Noty

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I've said it many times with classes who have Sancticy of Battle mechanics readiness is just a shit version of Haste.

Well the tooltip says it boosts Haste,Crit,Mastery,Readiness, Multistrike and Bonus Armor by 30%. Now I'm assuming you don't know that. Seems powerful but IMO the drawback is it would be annoying to keep up.

So eh the Talent seems iffy then I used to see it. >.>

[Fredzilla]

I like the idea behind the talent, because it requires you to actually think about when you're going to use it and how, but the implementation leaves something to be desired.

[anaxie]

That being saidddd. Empowered seals is too good and should be easier to find holes to get the HOPFULLY real haste buff in the .. more haste you get. ala more gcds.


Empowered truth barring TV going to 300% damage if not higher since we have seen minimal tuning FV could end up excesslively powerful <it should> because Empowered truth beats it right now if you just use it passively for only one buff.

Seraph is just bad design give me a single scenario outside some awkward spine of deathwing / siegecrafter <which would NOT be worth gearing entirely around since we can hardly gem and not reforge>. Where stacking sayyy 30% gear readiness then using it for an extra 10 readiness on CD. Oh jack me off i lost 30 seconds on AW! Too bad as a ressult I now have either shit haste , mastery or multistrike/crit if they end up worthwhile.

Only reason wings is so powerful right now is because mastery is the #1 hands down stat during wings. Hammer and hand of light are potent as fuck. Haste lets us get a hammer in ever other second as opposed to sitting on our hands.

Remove one or the other and wings loses it's super boner time. Nevermind super boner time isn't going to matter a whole lot with a 15% higher execute phase so readiness is even more poop before it even started.

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TLDR please remove scrap readiness before live blizzard. And for fucks sake send Seraph to the graveyard with seal of faith, dance studio, path of titans and other failed experiments.

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why can't they just design three SIMPLE AS HOLY MOTHER FUCKER talents.

#1 A maintinence buff ala inquisiton like talent with 100% uptime

#2 FV, has to be more powerful though so weak

#3 Empowered Seals but work on making Rightiousness... not bad.... Or better yet let us REFRESH THE FUCKING MOTHER FCKING%$@()%UJGST DEBUFFS WITH Art of War. Omg artofwar is useful who woulda thought.

How ppl feel about these? Goodness Exo refreshes judgement debuffs So kawaii!

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I don't know about you guys but I like my complexity in boss design not going hurp durp my class is easy. Class complexity is the LEAST thing I care about. Does the class do good damage? Am I an asset to my raid? Cool thats all i give a fuck about. Now give me a Ragnaros or Omnitron to fight.

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Well the tooltip says it boosts Haste,Crit,Mastery,Readiness, Multistrike and Bonus Armor by 30%. Now I'm assuming you don't know that. Seems powerful but IMO the drawback is it would be annoying to keep up.

So eh the Talent seems iffy then I used to see it. >.>

says gear stats. meaning it's crap

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To add on to what I said. Who cares if a person can do decent dps with a class if their noob. They will still be face first on the ground on 90% of the encounters the .5% does because those windows are just so delicious to lick.

[rad586]

I know people said not to worry about numbers yet, but almost 60% nerf to Execution Sentence really worries me alot.

Atleast Seal of Insight might be staying.

[DingDongKing]

I'm just waiting and seeing. I've unsubbed from the game and will not renew until Warlords is out so no panics here.

[Lumineus]

I have the feeling that most posters in the previous page were actually under the impression that it gives haste.

It's not that it gives haste, because it doesn't, it gives auto-attack speed. It's that the function of haste that makes it good for us, is to fill empty GCDs. Which is also what Empowered Seals does, with casts of Seal of Truth and Righteousness, and additional Exorcisms from the increase in Art of War procs off auto-attack. And once you no longer need haste to fill empty globals it just becomes a straight percentage modifier.

[Armourboy]

I know people said not to worry about numbers yet, but almost 60% nerf to Execution Sentence really worries me alot.

Atleast Seal of Insight might be staying.

Its so early there really isn't anything I worry about right now. A ton of the changes will be done just to see how it messes with rotations and how much impact the spell itself has versus others.

Just take a look at the healing mana changes. One minute they shoot them sky high and remove all mana regen, the next they drop them and add mana regen back in. I know why they let alpha be seen this time around ( no worries about people showing it anyways), but is the downside of something like this. I know far too often people say " oh just wait its Beta " and then it bites players in the butt, but this is alpha, this is where they are supposed to throw out wacky numbers and try crazy things. Its always happened before, we just couldn't see it.

I'd rather they do it now, than 2 weeks before launch, they nerf the crud out of it, and then we are stuck hurting for 3/4 of the expansion.

[Prometheous]

I know people said not to worry about numbers yet, but almost 60% nerf to Execution Sentence really worries me alot.

Atleast Seal of Insight might be staying.

Read it again. It's for Stay of Execution, the holy variant, not Execution Sentence.

[rad586]

Read it again. It's for Stay of Execution, the holy variant, not Execution Sentence.

"Execution Sentence now costs 12.8% of Base Mana. Now scales with 674.2% of Holy Spell Power, down from 1,586.5% of Holy Spell Power."

It's below in the talent section.

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Actually scratch that, it's for healing part >.<

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I blame Chaud for posting it like that.

[ipoststuff]

What if exorcism had 2 charges with 15sec recarhge and aow generated one. Damage also increased above judgement. I think that'd be nice.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Serapham is a readiness stat stacking ability. Unless you the conversion per point of readiness is extremely generous and we have something more appealing then just wings that ability is complete shit. Im not building more core stats around a 10 second buff. Idk about you guys but that is retarded.

Excuse me 5 HP every 30 seconds AND most of our core stats. Noty

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I've said it many times with classes who have Sancticy of Battle mechanics readiness is just a shit version of Haste.

First of all, we don't know what readiness will reduce the CD of, might only be 1m + cds like we have now.
Second of all, we wouldn't use Seraphim on CD. At least not until we have enough readiness that Avenging Wrath has 30sec cd when used with Seraphim, I can see Avenging Wrath CD go down to 60sec/90sec with enoguh readiness by the end of the expansion but more than that and it's just gonna be op.
And yes, Readiness / Haste / Mastery (and crit) are going to eat ratings from each other. Like in MoP we're going to find a point where haste stops being the "best" stat to go for before the other stats catch up, for all we know haste might not even be worth more than mastery and readiness because of Seraphim and we end up being stuck with a class that is "Grrreat!" but extremely clunky and boring to play because haste isn't worth it's weight.

All this will be TCed when we get some numbers to play with...
Anaxie is a bit, well Anaxie... http://everydaylife.globalpost.com/D...ratio=1&webp=1