[WoD] Retribution Paladin Megathread

[Ianus]

And if that really were the case the world around, none of us would have a guild right now. But we clearly do. No matter how much you all want to be doomsayers, and even with my own doubts about how we'll end up in WoD, if you aren't in a guild pushing for top progression in the world, and the like, you won't lose your raid spot if you aren't bad. I have zero concerns about my raid spot, because I know I'll have it once WoD comes out because I can outperform enough other people to make sure I do.

i'm just saying its not fair for someone to be at same dps as me and he works for it much less.. and no i'm not saying i will lose my spot just stating facts.. i raided soo hc was top 7 dpses in 25 man

[Nobleshield]

That wasn't my point, anyways; my point was that Ret needs something beyond just bringing the regular Paladin stuff, because the other Paladins can bring that same stuff.

[Fredzilla]

Its almost like having a holy pally or prot pally in the raid is such a rarity, when its not in reality.

Even though holy paladins suck ( or at least in my perspective) i still see many of them. same with prot.

Even if we DID do good or even really good damage, we would not bring any good type of utility that is not already in the raid.
Even if warriors were 10% behind us i as a raid leader would put in the warrior, because he has rally cry.

its also common to have way more dps than you do healers, so even if you have a holy paladin that sucks or is not as good as a priest, guess what? you might not even have a healer to replace him.

DPS as a whole are very common, good ones, bad ones, high utility ones, OP ones. Know how many dps i have on my bench? around 4-8 every night.
Know how many healers i have on the bench? 1
Know how many tanks i have on the bench? 1

So you can see the problem here. Being a dps with nothing to bring but dps, is bad.
But having nothing to bring but WORSE dps is just a sin.

Everyone who has ever played the game knows that there are a lot more dps than healers or tanks. If you'll notice, there are a lot more dps specs than healer or tank specs. The way it's set up, then, is by design. But that's entirely beside the point. You're not going to lose your spot if you aren't bad and you aren't in a guild that would force you to reroll because of the level of progression you push. It's not going to happen.

And while the lack of unique utility definitely has merit to it, and I'd like something more to differentiate us from prot and holy come WoD, chances are high it's not going to make or break your raid spot if the previously mentioned criteria is true. You aren't going to fail to kill a boss because you have one less rallying cry or whatever (or if you do, your raid's problem definitely does not stem from the lack of that extra raid cd). And it's even less so the case that you would fail to kill a boss because of have an extra set of paladin utility as opposed to some other class's utility. We might not necessarily bring anything unique, but we still definitely bring something outside of dps.

There are definitely issues we'll need to address (once we have the appropriate avenues to test them ourselves on the alpha/beta), but your raid spot isn't one of them. If you're good, and you're not doing bleeding-edge progression, you'll have your raid spot. Stop making mountains out of molehills.

- - - Updated - - -

i'm just saying its not fair for someone to be at same dps as me and he works for it much less.. and no i'm not saying i will lose my spot just stating facts.. i raided soo hc was top 7 dpses in 25 man

Yes well the world as a whole isn't fair. If they don't remove everything that gives variation between classes, specs, roles, and abilities, there will ALWAYS be differences in output based on input. Someone will always have to try harder to do the same numbers. It's not going to change. I'm sure shadow priests would love to talk to you about that right now.

[Ramiell]

Ret will be just slightly different from the other specs outside of damage (style/amount).

MoP

Absolve - Holy has Sacred Cleansing.
Emancipate
Seal of Justice - Glyph of Burden of Guilt says hai.

WoD adds these.

Mastery Attunement - stat damage stuff
Sanctity Aura - Shared by other class specs. I know.
Empowered HoW – Ret will have the best HoW.
Enhanced HoS – Ret will have a lower HoS cooldown.

Did I miss anything? This is very little change, but it is something. Perhaps we will see more things to differentiate Ret from Prot/Holy further down the line.

[ruiizu]

Ret will be just slightly different from the other specs outside of damage (style/amount).

MoP

Absolve - Holy has Sacred Cleansing.
Emancipate
Seal of Justice - Glyph of Burden of Guilt says hai.

WoD adds these.

Mastery Attunement - stat damage stuff
Sanctity Aura - Shared by other class specs. I know.
Empowered HoW – Ret will have the best HoW.
Enhanced HoS – Ret will have a lower HoS cooldown.

Did I miss anything? This is very little change, but it is something. Perhaps we will see more things to differentiate Ret from Prot/Holy further down the line.

I'm more of the opinion that PvP, and specifically RBGs, are the big problem. Our biggest problem there is "why bring the Ret Paladin when other DPS bring better utility, as a whole?" It's not necessarily that we share with Holy or Prot, it's just that what we bring as a damage dealer is not as good as the other classes. There are other really horrible specs too, but our focus is on Retribution, so I want to know what other people think we could bring to RBGs to be good. Raids imo are much easier to balance because all you really need are the same abilities as Holy/prot and good dps to warrant a spot (exception SOMETIMES being world first kills).

[Vash The Stampede]

Because you aren't in a top guild in the world, and chances are good you'll outperform someone else in your raid and earn a spot over them (if you are good).

Maybe you're not in a top guild in the world? Seriously, why treat everyone that isn't a top progression guild as being OK for sucking?

It's Ok to suck, here's a gold star and a mount!

- - - Updated - - -

Yes well the world as a whole isn't fair. If they don't remove everything that gives variation between classes, specs, roles, and abilities, there will ALWAYS be differences in output based on input. Someone will always have to try harder to do the same numbers. It's not going to change. I'm sure shadow priests would love to talk to you about that right now.

Buff Shadow Priests?

[Ramiell]

There are other really horrible specs too, but our focus is on Retribution, so I want to know what other people think we could bring to RBGs to be good.

Retribution Specialization
Holy Ground - Places a large, stationary zone that repels enemies and removes all negative spell effects from allies while on the Holy Ground. Allies within the holy ground cannot be targeted by enemies. Lasts for X seconds.

Something like this is probably too large of a change to make it in sadly. It's fun to dream though.

[Fredzilla]

Maybe you're not in a top guild in the world? Seriously, why treat everyone that isn't a top progression guild as being OK for sucking?

It's Ok to suck, here's a gold star and a mount!

I don't know how you got that from what I said. There can be a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge difference between "not performing optimally" and "sucking". You can still clear content on heroic while "not performing optimally". Chances are not good you'll be able to if you "suck". All I said is that if you aren't in such a guild, chances are good that someone/some people will not perform optimally (as denoted by the fact that they don't progress as quickly as the aforementioned guilds), and you could theoretically earn a raid spot over such a person by performing better than them.

[ruiizu]

Retribution Specialization
Holy Ground - Places a large, stationary zone that repels enemies and removes all negative spell effects from allies while on the Holy Ground. Allies within the holy ground cannot be targeted by enemies. Lasts for X seconds.

Something like this is probably too large of a change to make it in sadly. It's fun to dream though.

Sounds kind of like super smoke bomb. It would be pretty powerful, so I think it would need to have some kind of counterbalance element (like you can't target enemies from outside of it either, or use any offensive actions). Don't Monks already have something just like that?

[Reghame]

that list of changes in the new build.. oh my.

Literally a word change to supplication, of which was not needed AT ALL.

Such alpha, much disappoint.

[ruiizu]

that list of changes in the new build.. oh my.

Literally a word change to supplication, of which was not needed AT ALL.

Such alpha, much disappoint.

What if Supplication reset the CD on Lay on Hands and it was usable in bgs and arena (this would be for Ret)?

[Ryuji]

Resetting the CD on LoH would be nuts if you consistently got the killing blow for Supplication. Doubt that'd get implemented ever, though it would be hilarious to see. HEAL EVERYONE FOREVER(provided no forbearance is up)!

[Reghame]

as far as the alpha is concerned, thats basically what it does now. Kill a target? time to go to full hp in one flash.

all subject to change due to scaling and what not but supplication wont be something we will just say, oh its up thats ok.

[ipoststuff]

I'm overwhelmed by the ret changes in the recent builds. It's like we are a totally different spec now.

[Korie]

I'm overwhelmed by the ret changes in the recent builds. It's like we are a totally different spec now.

I have yet to see any scaling(I'm sorry if I'm wrong, but Ive barely seen any)

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

We might've seen scaling changes but atm there's no addons for wow so numbers are just estimates from a very, very limited playerbase... get beta running, 5mans/raids testing going and addons allowed. Then we can get a clear image on how it is numberwise.

[ipoststuff]

PvP servers with pvp geared lvl100 premads are up. To me the real testing has started.

[Maegor]

To the people that have alpha access and can test things out, just wanted to see if this is accurate: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...929?page=6#101 .

Also, just saw this on Twitter: https://twitter.com/WatcherDev/statu...36703465459713

If you guys are taking specific requests, I would love to know how Emp Seals works in an aoe environment. If Emp Seals can be competitive with FV in ST right now. Anything on Seraph.

And also, if you could post a SS of your stats and possibly even some logs that'd be awesome.

[ruiizu]

Could someone in alpha confirm whether or not Sacred Shield can multistrike? What about eternal flame hot?

[Lyese]

I will be doing a lot of dummy testing and "theorycrafting" (Read: test what mechanics work and don't work@multistrikes and what not) later tonight (EU time so add +6 hours to east coast and +9 hours to west coast if you're american).

Given my upload speed is somewhere around 1mb/sec it'll take a while to upload footage though, but I guess I could make a spreadsheet where I store all the info.

Yeah, do what you can. Appreciate the effort you're putting into it!