Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[Maneo]

ROFL, totally. I go into the game with the intent of having a bad time. Yeah... (How much sillier can this get...)

Saddly to be expected from a good portion of the anti flight people on this thread.

I'm just giving up...flight clearly should be in the game. No reason for it not to be. Pretty damn sure Ordinator is just troll-baiting, because no one can really be that delusional. Hopefully Blizzard realizes their mistake whenever the new content patch hits and reintroduces flight. Eh w/e, new Path of Exile leagues start in 2 weeks anyways lol...

I guess you havn't seen Mr. Sith hamster much, probably cause he got himself banned. Ordinator is a more polite version of him.

What I don't understand is how people could play and level to 100 and still not see why this was done (at least for the immediate future). Draenor was designed specifically to be done while on a ground mount. Specifically, the treasures and rares are a MASSIVE part of what this game is at the moment (we are still less than 3 weeks in) and it would be completely trivialized by flying. Now, you may not enjoy these endless mini-distractions, but they are the major reason you aren't going to get flying anytime soon.

I agree. The thing is those how long before those treasures, and one time rares lose their novelty? Personally they have lost it with me already granted I play more then most and am already quick on my way to a 3rd max level toon.

That said, will there be flying eventually?? I think so, but it's not going to be in the first patch, or even the second. At best you can hope for it to arrive with the final raid tier, and possibly not even until the pre-patch for the next expac. It can be implemented, there is limited flight now if you know where to get it, so it's not a technical issue. It's a matter of how the world was designed. Is it artificially making content take longer?? Yeah, but what the hell in this game doesn't?? You'll get flying, it just isn't coming as soon as many will want it to.

Hell I will even support no flight till 6.1, and making the new jungle area no fly. Stretching out this longer then that is just plain BS in my opinion. Unless Blizz really picks up the pace on content release and continues to release content like those treasure... then we may have a different conversation.

[rda]

What I don't understand is how people could play and level to 100 and still not see why this was done (at least for the immediate future). Draenor was designed specifically to be done while on a ground mount. Specifically, the treasures and rares are a MASSIVE part of what this game is at the moment (we are still less than 3 weeks in) and it would be completely trivialized by flying. Now, you may not enjoy these endless mini-distractions, but they are the major reason you aren't going to get flying anytime soon.

Are MoP rares and treasures trivialized by flying? I fail to see the difference, bar a couple places in WoD where you have to jump, but they are very few and could be special-cased (put into caves, whatever).

You know, everyone comes here and says "hey, guys, can't you see? we have treasures now!! and rares!! THAT'S WHY we should not fly". Yet I fail to see how this is different from MoP - and it plays the same as well, bar the few jumping pieces, as I said. Where's the difference?

---
As a side topic: aren't rares in particular trivialized by being, well, easy to fight? WoD rares are *worse* in this regard than MoP ones. MoP rares could wipe you while you are leveling and early 90, WoD rares can't do that, you see a rare and you run to them for free experience / loot before someone else kills them in 20 seconds.

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I could. And I might. But then again.. I enjoy the game as is. There's no reason for me to figure out the exact difference like you do just to sit there and seethe with anger.

As a result, you are arguing about numbers without knowing them. This is pretty silly. If you didn't measure, why argue???

[Ordinator]

As a result, you are arguing about numbers without knowing them. This is pretty silly. If you didn't measure, why argue???

Because I've done both continents both enough to not need exact numbers to know they are comparable.

[rda]

Because I've done both continents both enough to not need exact numbers to know they are comparable.

Measure. I have nothing else to say to you. Your arrogance is astounding.

[Katchii]

ou know, everyone comes here and says "hey, guys, can't you see? we have treasures now!! and rares!! THAT'S WHY we should not fly". Yet I fail to see how this is different from MoP - and it plays the same as well, bar the few jumping pieces, as I said. Where's the difference?

The only place many people ever really cared about rares, and the only place there were treasures in MoP was in Timeless Isle which had no flight. Having flight there would have made finding and getting to treasures/ rares trivial.

As a result, you are arguing about numbers without knowing them. This is pretty silly. If you didn't measure, why argue???

In short, he doesn't need numbers to argue his point that no flight isn't a bad thing. I've only ever seen pro-fliers make the effort to figure out the time difference between traveling by air and traveling by ground in order for them to prove a point. People who don't care about or are anti-flying don't care how long it takes and argue that it's not about the time it takes to travel, it's about the experience and the fact that the world as it is was designed with no flight in mind so having flight would destroy the experience.

Me? I just play the game and enjoy it and don't worry about flight vs no flight.... I don't care about flight as much as some. I'm sorry not having flight has ruined or is diminishing the experience for some people, it's great fun.

[Granyala]

The only place many people ever really cared about rares, and the only place there were treasures in MoP was in Timeless Isle which had no flight. Having flight there would have made finding and getting to treasures/ rares trivial.

Erm.. no. They were already trivially easy to farm. I had them on a simple rotation using silver dragon.
Only rare that would be easier to reach would have been that red elemental up on the mountain because you wouldn't have to use these darn Albatros taxis.

TI had no flying because of PvP. That's the entire, that's the ONLY reason why they were no fly zones.
IoT had no fly because of the progressive zone unlock and PvP.

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I spent a good chunk of the day attempting to do archeology and pet battles... You know what? It was a fucking pain in the ass and not fun.

Yeah I leveled Arch to 700 yesterday and I have to admit: Not going back to that until flight is implemented. Arch is annoying enough as it is, I don't need to add 9474651296 mobs while trying to triangulate.

[Navitas]

For all of those saying they will quit or have quit the game can you please post a link to your armory profile in your 'ima gonna quit' post? That way we can call BS when you go no where (or conversely, laugh when you actually quit an mmo-rpg over the type of Mount you're allowed to use).

[BenBos]

Are MoP rares and treasures trivialized by flying? I fail to see the difference, bar a couple places in WoD where you have to jump, but they are very few and could be special-cased (put into caves, whatever).

You know, everyone comes here and says "hey, guys, can't you see? we have treasures now!! and rares!! THAT'S WHY we should not fly". Yet I fail to see how this is different from MoP - and it plays the same as well, bar the few jumping pieces, as I said. Where's the difference?

---
As a side topic: aren't rares in particular trivialized by being, well, easy to fight? WoD rares are *worse* in this regard than MoP ones. MoP rares could wipe you while you are leveling and early 90, WoD rares can't do that, you see a rare and you run to them for free experience / loot before someone else kills them in 20 seconds.

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?

WOD applies the mechanics of Isles of Conquest into the open world now. Isles didn't have flying too...

(read much more random loot)

I died several times with my Holy Paladin. In fact sometimes it was annoying to find the rares through all these mobs and YES I had the gear from WOD, not the version of MoP. I always change things as early as lvl +2. To see how balanced it is for new players.

I had to knible at some of these rares for ages . Could I have respecedd to Retri? Yes, but I always level with my Holy.

And even in this respect, WOD was much closer to the Vanilla WOW experience than any previous expansion in leveling.

So yeah: flying would NOT be as much fun while leveling. You skip mobs, height, unexpected aggro etc...

Like I said: I would include flying only 3 months before the next expansion (to ease the pain left for some who got left behind).

I want my other Alts to experience the process in a few months too.

[MasterHamster]

TI had no flying because of PvP. That's the entire, that's the ONLY reason why they were no fly zones.

And the fact that without flying TI would be reduced to a cloud of flying mounts above Celestials waiting for chat to call out a spawn and immediately fly there.
That's what happens when the entire physical environment is allowed to be taken out of the equation.

[Elim Garak]

And the fact that with flying TI would be reduced to a cloud of flying mounts above Celestials waiting for chat to call out a spawn and immediately fly there.
That's what happens when the entire physical environment is allowed to be taken out of the equation.

That's bullshit not a fact

The fact is that with flying TI would've been designed differently.

[Lochton]

I have my tendency to avoid this kind of threads, for I find them a bit silly. I am pro-flying and pro-no flying, it is all about the timing.

Currently, Draenor is set so smoothly that all can be done without flying, and hidden secrets where you have to use some game mechanics to get to (Shredder in Gorgrond for example). Currently, I don't believe flying should be part of the world nor do I believe it for 6.1, but I do believe for past content after. Would be a good timing to grant flying mid-way through content to set a little path of giving people a chance to feel the world a bit more.

And really, if you use flying just to skip things and being a little extra lazy, that isn't the right excuse then. I see flying as a secondary exploration method and should be viable later to see the world from a different view and I don't think flying would benefit right now. I don't see any excuses currently valid in my own opinion, people want flying to have it easier thus I believe it should be later but not never.

Loving the world as it is, and as it is, it is really easy to get around - even when you use tools given to you by Blizzard. You can operate with 2 Hearthstones (3 if you have the inn in Spire), you have various teleports that can be obtained by many, flight paths that flies fast enough and waypoints for your tower. Even at that, you can obtain access to flying through the Gnomish Gearworks/Goblin Workshop.

So slow down, let the world be explored by people first and then later, embrace the flying, for right now it would be nothing but a tool to skip things. Flying most likely will come later, it is a good and useful feature but just not yet.

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And the fact that without flying TI would be reduced to a cloud of flying mounts above Celestials waiting for chat to call out a spawn and immediately fly there.
That's what happens when the entire physical environment is allowed to be taken out of the equation.

I have a feeling, if TI had flying, there would be a lot more rares in caves and tunnel systems, as well, the birds could be a danger too to knock you down.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

It seems pretty clear to me that the vast majority of the playerbase is quite happy playing the game in it's new form without any flying mounts. So I'm kinda suspecting that this is the last we'll hear of it. There aren't nearly enough complaints or enough of an outrage to make Blizzard consider they should add back flying to the game again. If the outrage and crying had been louder then perhaps it would've seen a return, but everyone seems pretty content and a lot of people are praising the quality of the expansion, so I'm quite certain this will be the last we'll have seen of flying mounts for a long time.

You are right. But you are barking up the wrong tree. People in here are so convinced their opinions are the ones that matter that it is all they can see. (wait for it.... wait for it... this will get quoted and thrown in my face as.. SO YOU ARE HUH HUH)

-It started off with them saying we would have a mass exodus if they got the word out. So these people marched around on official forums, all the fan forums, and raised hell for months before to get the word out. Not much you can say to that at the time but then the time came and passed. This mass exodus never happened. It failed.

-Now it went into a personal attack on each other period. It wasn't ever going to accomplish anything but it made people feel important and stuff. #internetlogic.

-Eventually the more organized minds behind got their acts slightly together. The new claim was the "average" player doesn't read forums, twitter, or blue feeds. That once they hit 100 all hell would break loose because that is when they would find out. Not much you can say to that at the time again because it is all opinion based future seeing. So here came WoD, here went a couple weeks, 100s are all over the place now.. and.. no trade rebellion against Blizzard with flying. No mass exodus. A dismal failure again. (now people will go stir some stuff up in trade, post pictures, and look right, but anyone with a brain get ready to LOL at that reply).

-Now, once again, we are in a period of personal attacks. The new angle starting to pop up is the whole "to soon" card. Which again is one of those arguments you cannot fight to much at the time. Notice how they like to stick to the big time future possibility theme in subjects that rely mostly on "you will see" themes. This one is a pretty good one. Because when does to soon end? A month from now because we still not have enough people at 100? When WoD is over perhaps people will still need more time to reflect and it hasn't sunk in yet? A 100 years from now when someone stumbles across this data and gets a good laugh out of it perhaps?

The point I am trying to make is as soon as the angle of their argument becomes exposed. Once the argument of the day is defeated. It just jumps to the next "in the future I will be proven right" stance. Everyone that wants what those people want will jump on board. How could it be wrong.. like all the other times before.. they think. Honestly more than think because they constantly say it. WoW goes up to 10 million than it is something else, we always see a spike, hell with those ques, they aren't at 100 yet how can they know will fly. WoW goes down to 9.9 million it will be "SEE FLYING IS STARTING TO SHOW ITS EFFECTS! WE ARE WINNING!!!"

Just be ready for it. So funny. So true. Let's keep the cycle rolling. I am enjoying every last bit of the ride.

[rda]

^^ You, guys, aren't listening. You are just repeating "people seem to be happy" (that's true, but you might want to think about the reason, and it's a pretty obvious one and has been discussed a number of times).

Here's the sum total of the current situation the way I see it:

* Yes, a lot of people seem to be fine with no flying right now, because they are leveling and / or exploring content that is new to them right now.

* Draenor does NOT have a lot of endgame content overall. This means that the happy exploration phase will end pretty soon, people will run out of things to do - significantly faster than with previous expansions. (It has already ended for those who were on the beta.) That said, since, again, there is not much content to go out after in the world, this does NOT mean that people will demand flying - they will demand CONTENT. In the meantime they will sit bored in their garrisons, and after a month or two a significant portion will perhaps just go into slack mode.

* A fair part of the few endgame activities that we DO have, like archaeology and pet battles, became significantly slower than in MoP. We are talking 2x+ times slower, from measurements. Given that they are side activities and are time-expensive even with flying, this perhaps means that a significant portion of people will delay doing them until there is flight. This plays directly into the boredom point above. Not much to do to begin with and half of that is too tedious to do.

That's more or less it. WoD happened, concerns about endgame have been confirmed, we might not ever have an uproar about no flying, but that's not because no flying is so damn good, it's because there's very little to fly to. Having very little to fly to is very bad for the game, and no flying increases the issue (see last point).

[khalltusk]

Some people in this thread need to do some things (on both sides of the argument).

A) Chill out as some people are clearly working them selves up
B) Be civil
C) Dont make sweeping statements saying "one side of the argument are clearly bla bla bla.

Its bloody silly and childish that fully grown adults are devolving into shit slinging like chimps. Lets keep it clean people!

I am Pro flight, but I am loving the content currently and dare I say it am immersed when running around on the ground. It helps that the zones look and feel great. The Garrison is a great feature and I love it, would be GREAT for those role players among us. I have enjoyed finding rares and the odd treasure as well. The only annoyances? So far its mainly that the flying mounts I would like to use look silly walking (Proto draaaakes) and the odd time where i see a mountain can't get over it and have to run a long way around to get to X area. Not huge deals mind you, after 4-6 months yeh I could get tired of that and flight would be a great help.

Mobs I ignore pretty much to get to my objective and deal with the aggro on the other side. they die fast enough now i'm heroic geared and really are not an issue. Never were in any expansion if I am honest. The only time I every had problems with mobs was in Vanilla in Blasted lands and Wintergrasp mainly out in the world. (certainly when I went to old hyjal it was a pain getting passed them) Some mobs for the group quest would be tough if not for the raid groups in WoD however.

I understand pet battles and arch might be more painful to do now due to travel time however, they are side games (arch always sucked imo) and I think if enough people think like you changes may be made but for now you can either change the way you play/put up with it or quit and vote with your wallet.

I think the world bosses need some changes as they are always down before I even get a chance to look at them. Might see if I can find a group and get lucky but its a little frustrating on that end. The Dungeons so far are great we just need more of them, Garrisons are fantastic would like more on these tbh (only niggle monuments are either grindy as fuck or require mythic raiding. would be nice to see some other options maybe a CM mode one or such?)

[-Superman-]

I have my tendency to avoid this kind of threads, for I find them a bit silly. I am pro-flying and pro-no flying, it is all about the timing.

Way to pick a side. And from the look of your post... anti-flight.

[Mehrunes]

People who complain about not wanting to do anything in the game and instead complain about it because they are under the false assumption it takes longer. No self control.

Maybe a little longer. If that's a deal breaker for you.. too bad.

Hint: if you need to resort to goalpost moving, you're doing something wrong. Hint 2: neither battle pets, nor archaeology are on fly paths.

Wrong. People want the game to be designed better. God mode travel is bad game design. Blizzard thinks so too.

How is flying god mode travel in the first place?

This line is getting old. There's no reason to expect every mob on Dreanor to be challenging and reward you. You're rewarded by making it to your destination. Sorry every mob there doesn't provide you with an upgrade..

How is "getting to your destination" a reward now? Do you need to conjure up stuff for your argument to have sense? And if the mobs are neither challenging, nor rewarding, then they are there only to be an inconvenience for the sake of inconvenience. Now let's go back to your other brilliant post:

Wrong. People want the game to be designed better.

How is inconvenience for the sake of inconvenience "better design" again?

I'm sure a lot of things aren't going to be immersive when the second you log in you put your pouty face on.

What does "pouty face on" snarky remark (or a failure at one) have to do with anything? If you can't auto-run through mobs, then you are simply doing something wrong. And since anti-flying people insist so fucking much that not flying in previous expansions was totally not a choice even though the outdoor world has nothing to compete over, and you need to play in the most "optimal" way at every second, even when you are on loading screen, then of course they wouldn't start playing wrong now

But let's say you do play wrong now and running through mobs is too hard for you. Welp, you get dismounted. Play their aggro range then, not exactly hard either. And if you fail at both, then kill the mob that made it impossible for you. Takes around five seconds, because they are balanced around people with no gear. Still doesn't dismiss what Diddle said.

You didn't even read what I was referring to. Somethings take a little longer. Somethings don't. Somethings are faster than before (FPs). It pretty much balances out.

Except it was about the speed of pet battles, gathering and archaeology. Context, operate in it. Especially when it was you who created that context, since you chose these examples in your attempt at dismissal.

In other words, own up to your lack of logic, instead of finding bazillion excuses for it.

Because I've done both continents both enough to not need exact numbers to know they are comparable.

I'm not exactly sure why, but for some reason I doubt this would pass peer review.

Erm.. no. They were already trivially easy to farm. I had them on a simple rotation using silver dragon.
Only rare that would be easier to reach would have been that red elemental up on the mountain because you wouldn't have to use these darn Albatros taxis.

What's wrong with 5 minutes Albatross Airlines? It's not player flying, so it's fantastic design in my opinion, ergo the opinion of the whole wide world. Or something.

And the fact that without flying TI would be reduced to a cloud of flying mounts above Celestials waiting for chat to call out a spawn and immediately fly there.
That's what happens when the entire physical environment is allowed to be taken out of the equation.

Because people AFKing at Huolon or whatever other rare they camped was so much better (Or is it "Let's pretend more how dangerous and challenging TI was, because it suits the no-flying argument, even though the only mobs you couldn't skirt the aggro range of were the Yaungol on the bridges and they were constantly dead even on low pop realms, and if you managed to get one spawn on you, you could try to LoS its charge" time again?).

[Slant]

How is inconvenience for the sake of inconvenience "better design" again?

It's not inconvenience just because you're too lazy to do it. And it's certainly not inconvenience for the sake of being inconvenient. It's for the sake of people actually being in the world, rather than in hubs and "over the world" for the rest of it. Also it gives players greater immersion and a sense of scale to the world.

You can disagree with all that, but "convenience" really is not the top reason to design something in a game. Especially when challenges are artificially introduced to make the game more... well, challenging. They could just give you an epic every time you press a button, yet they make you go and kill bosses... with trash in front of them. That's so inconvenient by your logic. :P

[khalltusk]

Way to pick a side. Sounds more like you are running for office and less like a stance. Oh, and from the sounds of your post... anti-flight.

Sorry dude I got the feeling that Gehco is happy to be with out flight for now and agrees it should come in later. Its not anti flight at all. Its a little like my current stance. I am happy with the game world as is, but I know flying would need to return later. I enjoy flying for immersion to see the world from another angle. It is also convenient as well.

[-Superman-]

Sorry dude I got the feeling that Gehco is happy to be with out flight for now and agrees it should come in later. Its not anti flight at all. Its a little like my current stance. I am happy with the game world as is, but I know flying would need to return later. I enjoy flying for immersion to see the world from another angle. It is also convenient as well.

It was a little too flowery, and dreamy about no flight. Also, calling folks lazy because they are being efficient is just... well... can't really say cause then I would not be back til Christmas.

[Lochton]

Way to pick a side. And from the look of your post... anti-flight.

Trust me, I am far from being anti-flight yet. I enjoy soaring above the lands and I enjoy exploring the lands below. I don't need to pick a side for I know both works well and that how WoD goes, you could easily have the ground feel the first part and then add flying in later. My opinion stands that right now, it just isn't needed. I am not in that much of a hurry.

Sorry dude I got the feeling that Gehco is happy to be with out flight for now and agrees it should come in later. Its not anti flight at all. Its a little like my current stance. I am happy with the game world as is, but I know flying would need to return later. I enjoy flying for immersion to see the world from another angle. It is also convenient as well.

This is a good way of saying it, yes.