Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[zerocarbs]

I can't understand people who say they'll drop sub if they don't get flying...
you don't see me dropping sub eventho flying made it to WoD.

I'm sure it has something to do with the fact that its been a major feature since the first xpac.

[PuppetShowJustice]

On my server cluster the realm connections altered our faction split from being more or less even (Alliance was ahead but only slightly) to Horde outnumbering the Alliance 3 to 1. Being out in the world is now a death sentence if you're on the ground. WoD is going to be a long expansion of being semi-AFK in your Garrison waiting for a queue to pop if the Ally side can't ever take to the air.

It's a shame. The PVP was a lot of fun when we were on equal footing. The realm mergers ruined everything.

[zerocarbs]

I don't think flying needs removed completely, but it needs reworked so that it's not always a better choice than every other ground mount in the game.

But what does it matter to you?

That's like someone saying that queues need to be removed because everyone should run to the dungeon like they do.

[Raeln]

OK you hop on the fp and I'll fly to a pre determined location and we will see who is fast.

Has it occurred to you that this may be part of the reason that Blizzard wants to do something with limiting flying mounts?

[zerocarbs]

The reason queues should be removed is because it promotes a sense of community to have to form groups on your own realm.

Inconvenience does not foster community. Ask SWTOR how that went for them.

[Raeln]

Just epic. Lol. Seriously, a continent is a zone. A big one. I could say the same shit like you. A forest contains many trees and Azeroth (a world) contains many zones (Pandaria, Kalimdor, The Great See etc). It's only a geographical label to call Pandaria "continent", because that's the definition of a large landmass blah blah. But really it's irrelevant, the problem is that the continent / zone is fucking huge and not being able to fly sucks ass. And also the flight paths, in any shape or form, redone or not, are shit, because they make you look at the screen like a moron for 2-3-5-10 minutes, while if I fly somewhere I can go down anytime if I see something interesting.

We could discuss the merits of Blizzard implementing a parachute on flightpaths - I'd actually be for that I think.

As for staring at the screen while on a flightpath? I've actually started using flightpaths more often as of late just so I can safely get up from the computer and do something else for 2-3-5-10 minutes without accidentally overflying my destination and ending up in fatigue waters.

You stated the exactly reason why Blizzard wants to make a change here anyway and it's: "while if I fly somewhere I can go down anytime if I see something interesting."

You want to be safe 100% of the time when you don't find anything interesting to swoop down and look at. That is not good game design - ever. That ultimately leads to boredom. I'm sure you'll find some reason to argue against that but in a video game, "safe" is not "exciting".

[PuppetShowJustice]

Inconvenience does not foster community. Ask SWTOR how that went for them.

Haha. I remember this. Wanted to do my first Flashpoint (or whatever they called them). Was told my class wasn't ideal. Two hours later, still no group. Logged out forever.

If I wanted to stand around in town and shout for a party again I'd go back to FFXI or EverQuest.

[Ghostile]

Right, because I spend all my time in previous expansions.

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The reason queues should be removed is because it promotes a sense of community to have to form groups on your own realm.

Removed, no.
Higher rewards for premades (with manual entry?) definitely.

[Deleted]

I would love if they removed flying, even if it's only for the new zones. This helps me explore and enjoy the game much more, as well as it contributes to interactions between players out in the world. Just imagine how much better this game would become without flying and if epic gear all of a sudden became epic again and lfr/bg botting/afking was solved/removed. I was rather disappointed in Cata and MoP but aaaah, this next expansion looks great so far!

[Raeln]

Didn't happen for challenging content in Cata or unlimited dailies in MoP and no flying ain't gonna bring people back either. Forum posters that want no flying are not the extent of the player base.

Both were execution errors on Blizzard's part.

The challenging content in Cata was Blizzard's fault for putting it in LFD. If they had made the challenging version of dungeons as a mythic mode and left it for guildies/puggers to form groups for - it would have been successful, assuming they left heroic version of the dungeon in LFD built to a WotLK-esque style.

The "unlimited dailies" in MoP were once again Blizzard's fault in how they built the dailies and gated everything behind the Golden Lotus rep. On top of that, almost nothing with the golden lotus was random. You always had to do 2 to 4 hubs. It was never just one random hub a day. It was hub chaining that wore people down and they repeated that same idiotic mistake on Thunder Isle too.

The real issue with dailies in MoP was that they expected you to do 20 dailies a day because all the daillies only awarded 150ish rep each. They could have easily redesigned it where you only did 5 to 7 dailies a day but got 300 rep each. Ungated everything from Golden Lotus would have fixed heaploads too.

[PuppetShowJustice]

I never felt it was an inconvenience to form groups from people on my own realm. Hell, I still do it.

I'm going to guess that your realm population is at least double mine. Because during the late hours when I play you would be hard pressed to find 2 other people willing to do an H Scenario let alone build an actual 5 man group with a dedicated tank and healer and everything.

[aggs]

If both mounts are the same speed - then the flying mount is still going to be the better choice because of the ability to just fly up 80 yards and skip all the obstacles on the ground along with reducing the chance to be dazed to 0%. Ground mounts will need to veer around this hill or this boulder where flying can point a direction, hit autorun and window out.

I don't think flying needs removed completely, but it needs reworked so that it's not always a better choice than every other ground mount in the game.

If you think making the choice of ground mount vs a flying mount needs to be compelling and thought provoking on a situation to situation basis, we are very far apart. Like I said before, I understand it while leveling, but at max level I have yet to hear a truly compelling argument. Also the scenario I suggested with 280% ground speed would actually be fun imo and would in fact keep me grounded in many situations. I told a couple of my friends who don't check up on much of the WoD news themselves that it was actually going to be a thing and they said "Lets roll out the hogs and tour the country side" then I told them it was bs and they almost certainly can't fly until at least 6.1 even at max level, and then it turned in to ok prob just won't buy it until then, lol.

- - - Updated - - -

[Raeln]

Make that 200. No, 2000. That's more realistic. 2000 people that left the game for whatever the fuck reason they had, will resub not that I've cancelled, because they can... navigate slower through the old content.

I think they should remove LFG, LFD and add raid progression and hard attunements. That would probably make 5000 people to resub, for every scrub that cancel

I've made many posts in this thread about flying/no-flying, but would you like to know what the real issue that will decide if I buy WoD is?

If the endgame is just countless raids like MoP is.

Restricted flying is just a +1 for me.
Garrisons? a +1 for me.

I wish Blizzard would just say, "yep - going to have 4 patches of 18 raid bosses each. We're also going to ignore dungeons and only marginally utilize scenarios to tell a few stories". To me that would be a -100 and I would know for sure what to tell my friends in-game.

Right now, I'm not preordering and this is the first time that I've thought about not buying it until a couple months after release.

It wouldn't surprise me if Blizzard didn't seed the whole no-flying issue to distract people from talking about what the endgame will be.

[Maneo]

We could discuss the merits of Blizzard implementing a parachute on flightpaths - I'd actually be for that I think.

As for staring at the screen while on a flightpath? I've actually started using flightpaths more often as of late just so I can safely get up from the computer and do something else for 2-3-5-10 minutes without accidentally overflying my destination and ending up in fatigue waters.

You stated the exactly reason why Blizzard wants to make a change here anyway and it's: "while if I fly somewhere I can go down anytime if I see something interesting."

You want to be safe 100% of the time you don't find anything interesting to swoop down and look at. That is not good game design - ever. That ultimately leads to boredom. I'm sure you'll find some reason to argue against that but in a video game, "safe" is not "exciting".

It is like field of dreams man. If they create good content we will come. Give me content that makes me want to come down from above.

After about 3 months of being grounded in WoD, the character will be max level all the "dynamic events" will have been done. Farming, hunting rares, pet battles archeology etc are all going to be far more trouble then they are worth. The sitting in your garrison, or capital city queing for dungeons, raids, battleground etc begins. If your a DPS you will be weighting 30-2hrs probably on the higher end with the changes to healing.

This is the time when subs will begin to plummet.

[PuppetShowJustice]

I would love if they removed flying, even if it's only for the new zones. This helps me explore and enjoy the game much more

You drank the kool-aid, didn't you? Explain to me how your mobility being reduced to a single axis helps you explore the game more. Flying was added to the game and billed to us initally as a way to explore the world around us in a greater capacity. Flying was literally put in the game for exploration. And things were gated behind it like the Skyguard hub, the Ogri'la hub, the Netherdrake hub. Flying gave you more options. Not less.

But now Blizzard says flying is bad so now everyone seems to think that flying is ruining the game even though it was created to enhance it. You want interactivity with other players? You want zones to explore? Because I interacted with players just fine in Terrokar despite the flying. And I explored every inch of Storm Peaks and it required flying to do so.

This notion that flying is bad didn't crop up until Cataclysm. Now-a-days Blizzard simply doesn't build the game world with flying in mind. And they don't want to have to. Which is why flying will get the axe under the justification that the game will magically be better when we're all grounded somehow.

[Raeln]

cause they are exackly what u said smaller rpg and they cant afford it with their tiny playerbase comapre to this of wow - especially since most of those were forced to go f2p cause lol if anyone will pay sub for stuff that isnt wow or completly new mmorpg aka wildstar/ToES

They can afford it. Maybe not going back and redesigning old areas but new expansion content, they could certainly put flying in.

The point to ponder is: if flying is such a HUGE draw, why haven't they?

Instead, you have MMOs like Rift that is putting major dev dollars in player housing.

GW2 is implementing living stories, which are small, short-duration meta-events that extend the story. Think WoW holiday events that are used to advance the endgame story every 2 weeks.

TSW is just trying to stay afloat from what I can tell.

[zerocarbs]

I never felt it was an inconvenience to form groups from people on my own realm. Hell, I still do it. The reason it fosters community is because the people you see aren't just random faces in the sea of other servers. They're people you're likely to run into again at some point. The biggest problem blizzard has is too many servers which diluted the pool of healers and tanks. When they're spread thinly over 50 servers instead of distributed properly over 15-20 you can't form a group from your own servers population as easily. I'm not saying they should remove queues at this point, I'm saying the argument for not having them in a game is about community as opposed to convenience.

Pre-mades will always be required for the most difficult content. But peoples' expectations tend to change over the course of a decade.

[Ghostile]

You drank the kool-aid, didn't you? Explain to me how your mobility being reduced to a single axis helps you explore the game more. Flying was added to the game and billed to us initally as a way to explore the world around us in a greater capacity. Flying was literally put in the game for exploration. And things were gated behind it like the Skyguard hub, the Ogri'la hub, the Netherdrake hub. Flying gave you more options. Not less.

But now Blizzard says flying is bad so now everyone seems to think that flying is ruining the game even though it was created to enhance it. You want interactivity with other players? You want zones to explore? Because I interacted with players just fine in Terrokar despite the flying. And I explored every inch of Storm Peaks and it required flying to do so.

This notion that flying is bad didn't crop up until Cataclysm. Now-a-days Blizzard simply doesn't build the game world with flying in mind. And they don't want to have to. Which is why flying will get the axe under the justification that the game will magically be better when we're all grounded somehow.

It's called challenge.

[Raeln]

All of those games have a superior portal system which makes travel a 1000 times faster than wows antiquated flight system, soon to be super antiquated ground travel. If it takes 5 to 10 minutes to travel from place to place at 310% I can only imagine what 100% running will take.

I know WOW is a 10 year old game. That being said they do not need to act like a 10 year old game.

I bet other developers are scratching their heads at blizzard. No portals no flying. Travel is an unnecessary time sink that only exists in WOW. They are the only game on the market that does not want you to engage in their content.

Blizzard motto: Gate, gate, gate, give them more gate.

Well, Rift has one or two portals to each zone but the rest of it is hoofing it around on ground mounts. Though, they do have a queuing mechanism for zone events that can port you around somewhat. That said, they did turn fall damage off in Rift - which was, odd to get used to. There is a certain rush to dive bombing off a cliff on your mount though.

I am really getting fond of GW2s waypoint system - except I would like to be able to waypoint directly back to the main cities. I'll admit that I'm still a newb in the game - there might be a mechanism that I'm unaware of though.

[PuppetShowJustice]

It's called challenge.

You may have to elaborate on that a bit because I don't see Blizzard's zone design improving to the point to add "challenge" into the map when it wasn't there on any of the 3 grounded isles of MoP.