Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[Karragon]

At least they are starting to acknowledge flight is gone, from this mornings MMO-CHAMPION main page:

Player: We cant fly in warlord's how do we solve issues like this.
Blizzard: A) We don't intend to have bugs like that. B) I just said 'fly' as that's what's common now. 'Ride' does the same thing. (Celestalon)

My hope is still that it gets so royally panned in beta that they backpedal faster than a politician caught with his hand in the cookie jar

[Cassidin]

World of Queuecraft for LFR/LFD requires no flying mounts.

But as the only people that have World of Queuecraft are those that cant be bothered to do anything else but queue we dont actually HAVE world of Queuecraft. Yes people can spend all their time queueing if they choose to. People can also spend all their time doing pet battles or PVP but we don't use derogatory names like "World of Petcraft" or "World of PVPcraft" because that's what they choose to do.

I do spend a considerable amount of time queuing for things myself - but I cant stand being bored in cities while waiting for the queue to pop, so I end up questing. I am not even close to having all the MOP quests done on all my toons and doing so generates a fair amount of gold so I often tend to do that while waiting for the queue. Queueing while standing in cities is someone's choice - rather than not being anything else to do. There are plenty of reasons to fly around Pandaria - just none that you personally find attractive it seems.

[saucywench]

I'm not about to scream "the sky is falling" over a off-hand comment. I can see Blizzard limiting access to flying until reaching level 100, I can't see them preventing flying until xpan's end. Blizzard's whole trend since Lich King has been to to speed up the wow experience, faster leveling, faster mounts and faster queues. Wow isn't Diablo where exploration is the foundation of the game. Besides it will seriously put a dent in the Blizz Store Mount business.

[khalltusk]

Not really.

Had you been reading my position throughout this thread, you'd know that I am more in favor of simply nerfing flying mounts in some way so that there is actually a meaningful decision to be made about which mount would be better to use depending on the situation.

I have no problem with flying mounts remaining the choice for long distance travel and ground mounts remaining the choice for short distance travel - as in, fly to the questing area, then use ground mounts while doing your business around the hub.

As it is though, once you train flying mounts and buy one - you may as well just remove and delete all your ground mounts. You'll never need them again.

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Unless you are a tank - you can get dazed from ground mounts. You cannot on a flying mount.

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/eyesquint

Are we talking about a PvP server again? If we are, then several classes have abilities to nullify stealth after the few seconds of immunity Vanish is "supposed to provide".

On a tank sure but now the goal posts are being shifted. Either way Flying and ground mount are safe. Only in vanilla did I really have trouble. Discombobulator was a monster item. Turned you into a gnome and dismounted you. Best PVP item ever. Flying mounts and being dismounted =

[Cassidin]

no every single expansion has not been like this, have you even played WoW before?

It hasn't been like the "no flying till first content patch" - but it has been no flying till max level (apart from Cata).

[Raeln]

What? Is the rogue standing still? Why are you commenting on PvP when you don't know how it works? A rogue can travel as fast as a mount while stealth by the way. I'd like to see you accurately guess where the rogue is and throw your detection fast enough to catch him/her.

Why do I really care to catch the rogue? If it's burning vanish and running away "at mount speeds", then it sounds like I (or my team) beat him to a pulp and he's trying to get away to lick his wounds and heal.

If he's pulling a subversion tactic and trying to split a group - then we'd be stupid to splinter and chase after him like a bunch if idiots. At any rate, even without a group, if he's running away - I could just mount up and fly away, especially since I tended to play druid on a PvP server back in the day.

I thought we had pretty much decided that PvP servers should have their own rulesets and not have flying anyway?

Back here on PvE servers, why exactly are we talking about rogues?

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I had epic flying skill a day after 70. You said I shouldn't be assuming things but you are the only one doing so this entire thread.

There was NO 150% riding back then. Wow, guess you weren't around back then. You must be a wrath kid.

There were two TBC flight licenses. First one 60%, second was "epic". Don't know where I had 150% at, it was actually 280%.

I still find it hard to believe you were "so poor" yet was able to buy your epic training and mount 1 day after hitting level 70. That meant you had at least 6-7k of gold laying around. That was a rich man back in Vanilla/TBC days.

[Cassidin]

there is very little for them out in Pandaria that cannot be looted from Timeless Isle (no-flight)

When I am in Timeless Isle, I may pick some herbs or mine some ore while there..... if I set out to pick herbs or mine ore I do NOT go to Timeless Isle because it takes much longer to do so. I don't particularly find mining/herbing "great fun" but because it doesn't take too long to get what I need I don't "mind" it much. If it took loads longer because I could only do so on a ground mount I would be stopped from doing the things I DO find fun by having to spend longer doing the things that are less fun. That or I would simply stop gathering. It is for this reason that I mostly don't even bother to level up mining/herbalism/skinning while levelling. Sure I will do some but I won't worry about maxing it out until I am max level. The only real exception to this was skinning in Jade Forest at the beginning of the expansion where there were sooooooo many dead mobs around to skin.

[Raeln]

But as the only people that have World of Queuecraft are those that cant be bothered to do anything else but queue we dont actually HAVE world of Queuecraft. Yes people can spend all their time queueing if they choose to. People can also spend all their time doing pet battles or PVP but we don't use derogatory names like "World of Petcraft" or "World of PVPcraft" because that's what they choose to do.

I do spend a considerable amount of time queuing for things myself - but I cant stand being bored in cities while waiting for the queue to pop, so I end up questing. I am not even close to having all the MOP quests done on all my toons and doing so generates a fair amount of gold so I often tend to do that while waiting for the queue. Queueing while standing in cities is someone's choice - rather than not being anything else to do. There are plenty of reasons to fly around Pandaria - just none that you personally find attractive it seems.

I don't stand around in cities either - which is also the reason that I don't tend to pug many raids. I'd rather be out doing dailies/old quests/old raids for transmog or whatever.

[wow2011]

I can go play wildstar... since that will have flying. Or, I can play the many other games I have. There is also many new games coming out that are going to be really good.

MMORPG isn't the only enjoyable genre.

Just a quick correction: Wildstar's world was designed with flying in mind but developers have decided NOT to have WoW style flying in the game as it would degrade Wildstar's experience. The developers are considering some different forms of flying and we will see what they come up with in the future.

I personally think the underwater zone should be what flying is everywhere. But somehow players hated it because they can agro mobs from above or below which made traveling/questing more difficult. So spending manhour into filling the sky with danger and add in aerial combat and quests is obviously not worth it as players wouldn't like it.

[urasim]

Why do I really care to catch the rogue? If it's burning vanish and running away "at mount speeds", then it sounds like I (or my team) beat him to a pulp and he's trying to get away to lick his wounds and heal.

If he's pulling a subversion tactic and trying to split a group - then we'd be stupid to splinter and chase after him like a bunch if idiots. At any rate, even without a group, if he's running away - I could just mount up and fly away, especially since I tended to play druid on a PvP server back in the day.

I thought we had pretty much decided that PvP servers should have their own rulesets and not have flying anyway?

Back here on PvE servers, why exactly are we talking about rogues?

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There were two TBC flight licenses. First one 60%, second was "epic" and was 150%.

Epic flying was ALWAYS 280% speed. The expert riding skill was 60% and later patched to 150%. Also, druids got the 60%, expert riding skill, for free at level 68. Again, you don't know what you are talking about, and it's probably because you didn't play back then.

[Cassidin]

Flying is /godmode. If you get killed while on a flying mount, you either was AFK, stupid or just not paying attention. With the exception of a very few mechanics that force dismount, you can simply spacebar your way out of any combat and at above 60 yards, there's not a mob anywhere that will attack you.

It is the closest thing to /godmode that you can get in WoW without having GM status.

In the same way as sitting in an inn is /godmode. What about taxi mounts? That's even more /godmode.

[Raeln]

Epic flying was ALWAYS 280% speed. The expert riding skill was 60% and later patched to 150%. Also, druids got the 60%, expert riding skill, for free at level 68. Again, you don't know what you are talking about, and it's probably because you didn't play back then.

I have played WoW since before release. I came along and was playing in the beta in 2004.

I got some percentages mixed up on a couple licenses that have been changed since then - so what?

I certainly don't believe you when you make claims that you "were so poor" during Vanilla but were a rich man with 6 to 7k of gold just waiting to dump on epic flying 1 day after you also scored the server first for hitting level 70".

The vast majority of players didn't have epic flying until well after a year of TBC being out. My brother didn't even buy epic flying until months into Wrath because he just couldn't justify spending 5k on it.

5k back in TBC was like having 150k in the game now - almost no one does. Blizzard themselves said a few months back that most players didn't even have 50k.

The only way that I see you going from "so poor" in Vanilla to "rich" after hitting 70 is by visiting some of them there websites that let you exchange cash for ...

[RickJamesLich]

In the same way as sitting in an inn is /godmode. What about taxi mounts? That's even more /godmode.

I think there is a difference though, with inns or taxi's, there are only so many in the actual world, and you gotta travel sometimes quite a bit to get to the next one. Plus with inn's people use them to log out, and you can still actually kill people in many of them (like the one at the Tiller's farm), with flying you are pretty much invincible any time you want to be, anywhere in the world. I just don't think that is a very interesting system to have in the game, I know some will disagree, but leaving the main city should mean that on some level you have to put up with a threat, even if it's a very minor one.

[Raeln]

In the same way as sitting in an inn is /godmode. What about taxi mounts? That's even more /godmode.

Taxi mounts are on rails. The only way you can get off of them is by logging out/back in and still waiting until the next flightpath connector.

While mounted on a flying mount, especially above 40 to 60 yards, renders you able to fly anywhere you want with no danger of being dismounted/damaged/dying. How is that not /godmode?

There is even an interface switch that you can toggle on (maybe on by default now) to prevent you from accidentally casting anything that would dismount you in the air.

[Cassidin]

The vast majority of players didn't have epic flying until well after a year of TBC being out. My brother didn't even buy epic flying until months into Wrath because he just couldn't justify spending 5k on it.

Think that's about when I got epic flying on my first toon to get it. I believe into Cata I still had some 85's that still had the 150% flying as I couldn't afford to spend out on it for all my toons. I only really worried about fast flying on my toons that were gatherers.

[wow2011]

Design around flying, not removing it is the better course of action.

They did try various designs around flying starting back in TBC. Just a few things off of the top of my head:
1. the ogre area with fel cannons (tbc)
2. the big birds on that mountain for dailies (tbc)
3. spinkle some gargolyes in the airspace that did practically nothing (wrath)
4. players knock back to dismount (wrath)
5. an entire underwater zone made to experiment with aerial combat (cata)
6. an item for players to dismount others (mop)

In the end, player feed back were largely negative when they can die while mounted. Every single one of those experimental designs had negative feedback from players. 1+2 were too annoying to deal with and you always died. 3 was practically meaningless as players just flew past. 4 was abused to no end. 5 was hated by players as they now have to deal with a vertical axis. 6 was complained about griefing as it most likely kills anyone who get dismounted.

Nothing Blizzard has tried so far to design around flying has had positive feedback. But doing nothing about flying is also not right since it gave players too much god mode. I personally don't know what the right move is but doing nothing is definitely not the right move.

[Cassidin]

Taxi mounts are on rails. The only way you can get off of them is by logging out/back in and still waiting until the next flightpath connector.

While mounted on a flying mount, especially above 40 to 60 yards - renders you able to fly anywhere you want with no danger of being dismounted/damaged/dying. How is that not /godmode?

I do see the distinction so point taken, but I still don't see flying mounts as godmode. Flying on a flying mount is part of the game where you may not be able to die (usually) but there are LOADS of parts of the game where you cannot die. You cant DO anything on a flying mount - to do ANYTHING you have to dismount. You no longer have your godmode then. Whatever you use a flying mount for,when you get off it - which you have to do for anything -you no longer have godmode.

[Raeln]

Think that's about when I got epic flying on my first toon to get it. I believe into Cata I still had some 85's that still had the 150% flying as I couldn't afford to spend out on it for all my toons. I only really worried about fast flying on my toons that were gatherers.

I was still on my old PvP server at the beginning of TBC and my druid was main at the time. I was scrambling to get the coin together to buy the epic flight training because I wanted the epic flight form.

I absolutely remember spending many hours farming that gold.

[Cassidin]

Nothing Blizzard has tried so far to design around flying has had positive feedback. But doing nothing about flying is also not right since it gave players too much god mode. I personally don't know what the right move is but doing nothing is definitely not the right move.

None of what you mention is "design around flying" it is designing restrictions on flying. Designing around flying would be to make flying challenges and lots of secret places you can only get to via flying (although I think making it so you can get to them both flying AND ground mount would be better). Some of the world of warcraft is pretty breathtaking when viewed from above on max settings. Design around flying would capitalise on these.

[Stellan]

I don't mind no flying to be honest, consider it like this, if raiding had flying involved, most would say it would be ruined, as you'd just skip everything and fly to the boss. Ditto with battle grounds and arenas, if flying could be used, both would be ruined, as you could stay on your mount the whole match, or just wait until an advantage presents itself and swoop in. I think maybe that's kind of why they took it out, questing, gathering at nodes.... none of that stuff is very interesting nowadays. At least with no flying, the opportunity for world pvp and actually having to avoid mobs will happen.

Why do people keep bringing up world PVP. 60 percent of the player base in the US plays on PVE servers. The rest mostly play on one faction dominant PVP servers. Where the hell is world PVP in that?