Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[Deleted]

Well lets see.

TBC and WoTLK had great story, great content and some of that content designed with flying. It produced 12 million players. So we can guess that the formula for those expansions was indeed working.

Now we look at cataclysm and MoP that received poor reception after release cause of various reason, many being poor story and even worse content. Flying pretty much stayed the same overall except cataclysm where you could fly at anytime. Subs dropped by nearly 6 million.

It's pretty easy to see that it's the poor content and poor story that is blizzard problem. Flying isn't the cause of that. It's a scapegoat for blizzard to blame their failings on in some poor attempt to do less and charge more all under the guise of, "Oh this will be better".

Except enough of us have seen the game when there was no flying and it sucked. No amount of wording or promises from blizzard will change that. There is a reason flying was added. Cause it was a great feature and when content and story was evolved around it, wow produced some amazing numbers

Not really, if you actually look at the content in those expansions. Catalcysm's questing was far superior to TBC, and arguably as well Wrath of the Lich King. There are many factors that play into that, not just flying. But anyone with half a brain can see that they wanted to limit flight for max level ever since Isle of Quel'Danas, and slowly but surely, they've been trying to get players back into using their ground mount.
From that we can gather that they regretted their decision of implementing flight already in the same expansion it was introduced. Why? Because it allows your to trivialize content and the game you're playing.

Players need to be socially engineered to again come to terms of not flying at all, part of that has been going on for quite a while, but those metods cause more frustration within the playerbase because there is this arbitrary restriction on where you can fly and can't in current day content. Disabling at across the board will alleviate that frustration partly.
Besides, flying was never and never will be a key feature of the game. Why? Because it doesn't actively contribute to the gameplay, in fact, let let's you avoid gameplay all together. It was badly implemented and it is better to just cut the tumor away for now.


Also rebecca, I got in that top 0.1% at the time raiding 9 hours a week. Just saying. And that's only in progression, after that it became more like 3-4 hours.
In fact, the arguments you bring up are fucking nonsensical. If you truly believe that there is so much boring shit to do, then why the hell did you play this game in the first place? If anyone here is masochistic, it's kind of you. I personally don't find most of the content "boring shit".

[rebecca191]

Well by Firelands there was a lot less content. Wouldn't be surprised if guilds did it on 9 hours a week at that point. My guild ended up cutting a raid day after that point. I doubt there were many M'uru kills on 9 hours a week of progression, if so, I salute you for your superiority.

I always assumed IQD was designed for no flying because it was on the same instance server as the blood elf starter zone which didn't have flying because none of the artwork was finished and it would have been a pain to enable flying for just that one area so they designed it to not have flying.

[quras]

Not really, if you actually look at the content in those expansions. Catalcysm's questing was far superior to TBC, and arguably as well Wrath of the Lich King. There are many factors that play into that, not just flying. But anyone with half a brain can see that they wanted to limit flight for max level ever since Isle of Quel'Danas, and slowly but surely, they've been trying to get players back into using their ground mount.
From that we can gather that they regretted their decision of implementing flight already in the same expansion it was introduced. Why? Because it allows your to trivialize content and the game you're playing.

Actually cataclyms questing was a mix of grabage running around piled on with more crap.

TBC had a great flow of questing and story and better yet, when you finally got flying, content was there and designed around it in many area. Some areas specifically with flying in mind.

Same for Wotlk.

Sure, there were some areas you could bypass worthless mobs but it didn't affect the game at max level. It's wasa great mix of content back by an even better story.

The IoQD was just a small hub for some amazing gear. Flying or no flying it was going to be grinded by everyone cause it had the best gear in game for many players. You put a reward like that in game and no matter how you design it. Players will be there. No flying didn't make it enjoyable. You did that content cause of the massive reward that was behind it.

What you can gather from that is place the best rewards on a rep vender and no matter what people will be there.

It had nothing to do with no flying.

Players need to be socially engineered to again come to terms of not flying at all, part of that has been going on for quite a while, but those metods cause more frustration within the playerbase because there is this arbitrary restriction on where you can fly and can't in current day content. Disabling at across the board will alleviate that frustration partly.
Besides, flying was never and never will be a key feature of the game. Why? Because it doesn't actively contribute to the gameplay, in fact, let let's you avoid gameplay all together. It was badly implemented and it is better to just cut the tumor away for now.

Incorrect, flying has contributed to the game play for every player that used it on various degrees. I bet not a single player ever left wow saying, "I hate flying, Im leaving."

We have seen content designed with flying in mind and produced more gamers than most MMOs ever see when added to great content and story. Hell, orgila wasn't that great of a story but it had some decent items to get and the flying parts were amazing.

You greatly underestimate flying as a key feature to wows success when tied into the content and story.

SNIP....

[DarkArchon]

Well lets see.

TBC and WoTLK had great story, great content and some of that content designed with flying. It produced 12 million players. So we can guess that the formula for those expansions was indeed working.

Now we look at cataclysm and MoP that received poor reception after release cause of various reason, many being poor story and even worse content. Flying pretty much stayed the same overall except cataclysm where you could fly at anytime. Subs dropped by nearly 6 million.

It's pretty easy to see that it's the poor content and poor story that is blizzard problem. Flying isn't the cause of that. It's a scapegoat for blizzard to blame their failings on in some poor attempt to do less and charge more all under the guise of, "Oh this will be better".

Except enough of us have seen the game when there was no flying and it sucked. No amount of wording or promises from blizzard will change that. There is a reason flying was added. Cause it was a great feature and when content and story was evolved around it, wow produced some amazing numbers

Well then under that argument and logic WoD should be great too because it's being designed without flying, not only that but the time period were going to has some of most iconic badass lore.

- - - Updated - - -

Not really, if you actually look at the content in those expansions. Catalcysm's questing was far superior to TBC, and arguably as well Wrath of the Lich King. There are many factors that play into that, not just flying. But anyone with half a brain can see that they wanted to limit flight for max level ever since Isle of Quel'Danas, and slowly but surely, they've been trying to get players back into using their ground mount.
From that we can gather that they regretted their decision of implementing flight already in the same expansion it was introduced. Why? Because it allows your to trivialize content and the game you're playing.

Players need to be socially engineered to again come to terms of not flying at all, part of that has been going on for quite a while, but those metods cause more frustration within the playerbase because there is this arbitrary restriction on where you can fly and can't in current day content. Disabling at across the board will alleviate that frustration partly.
Besides, flying was never and never will be a key feature of the game. Why? Because it doesn't actively contribute to the gameplay, in fact, let let's you avoid gameplay all together. It was badly implemented and it is better to just cut the tumor away for now.


Also rebecca, I got in that top 0.1% at the time raiding 9 hours a week. Just saying. And that's only in progression, after that it became more like 3-4 hours.
In fact, the arguments you bring up are fucking nonsensical. If you truly believe that there is so much boring shit to do, then why the hell did you play this game in the first place? If anyone here is masochistic, it's kind of you. I personally don't find most of the content "boring shit".

I luv Rocketbear...Were cut from the same branch...We get it. No point in Blizzard trying rationalize a bad idea they wish they never implemented by trying to 'fix' it. The best fix is it being gone. Nobody plays a game to ride around on a flying mount. They come for the game play.

[quras]

Well then under that argument and logic WoD should be great too because it's being designed without flying, not only that but the time period were going to has some of most iconic badass lore.

Under your argument, I see it as a failure.

They didn't design content with flying in mind. The story plot has already been shot full of holes with time travel, double character and god knows what else lore buff have come up with.

It's a nostalgic trip down blizzard memory lane in an attempt to relive some days of way past warcraft glory that can't be recaptured and hell, any strategy warcraft player has already killed those toons once. Having players time travel to do it again in a different game screams of laziness.

so no, I can't really see that picture as a good thing.

Take away flying at max level cause blizzard can't be bothered to design content with flying in mind? I got no use for that. It's a backwards step in the games evolution that shouldn't be supported especially with blizzard asking for more money for that same expansion.

[mcgenius]

its going to get sooo annoying ...blizzards example about the quest guy ...just fly in and out is not a good one...put the guy in a building or guards nearby you will get stomped if you just drop in from above and if you don' have flying while leveling thats when you will be doing contest unless they are talking about dailies which yeah lets make that stuff worse...it will force world pvp ahem i mean ganking cause you know it will never be a even match ...farming herbs and ore is going to be bad even if they are all easier to get and will cause those the price of everything to skyrocket ...people will stop buying there flying mounts i would hope...a pain on one toon and what if you have alts ...forever and forever again...personally the directions things are going is depressing me because i want to play but for me and not just because of this i just don't enjoy this game really anymore

[DarkArchon]

Under your argument, I see it as a failure.

Yes of course you do sweetness, i expected nothing less.

[quras]

Yes of course you do sweetness, i expected nothing less.

Well thank goodness. At least you don't sound as desperate and blind as you did a few pages ago n your poor attempt to think no flying was some godsend.

[DarkArchon]

Well thank goodness. At least you don't sound as desperate and blind as you did a few pages ago n your poor attempt to think no flying was some godsend.

I imagine your own posts were filled with knowledge and wisdom we should all follow. Which wasn't at all desperate nor poor attempts to support flying.

You can't be blind and tell others their blind, your silly.

[Stonecloak]

Anyone who likes mmo's won't mind this change.

The entitled crowd will always continue to kick and scream to get what they want. They have been given thousands of reasons why and now have a blue post explaining as well. Their just choosing to ignore the obvious point. I hope, and I repeat hope these people quit. The challenge and exploration was what made the game great.

[quras]

I imagine your own posts were filled with knowledge and wisdom we should all follow.

You should really consider it. it was pretty good postings with solid stuff in there.

Which wasn't at all desperate nor poor attempts to support flying.


You can't be blind and tell others their blind, your silly.

Well depends here. Are you still arguing for some backwards evolution of the game to a time we don't need to relive cause blizzard can't be bothered to have a little creative thinking, are in you blindness are you going to continue to think no flying at max level is some godsend for wow and will bring back the millions it's lost.

Cause if your in the latter, you're still blind.

[DarkArchon]

Well depends here. Are you still arguing for some backwards evolution of the game

Just because it came later in the game doesn't mean it was evolution It was more of a evolution in convenience if anything...Not in Gameplay.

It's story time now - I remember a time back in Burning Crusade in Shadowmoon Valley...Do you remember the huge amount of Blood Elves at that base below the Nether Island? Used to be a path going up a hill which had guards on both sides, and the commander would be on horseback with elite guards. I used to try and battle my way up to the top and keeping a eye out for the horse back guys so i didn't get galloped down and die. There was danger then..If you wanted up there you had to fight. One of many memories that would have been lost if i could fly.

I've been flying and using the fly mount since they brought them in and i asked myself the question what memories do i have from flying? You know what comes to mind? Nothing really. I used it to mount up and fly away from battle PVE or PVP so i was safe. Looking back on it i would have had more fun being in the pit fight even if it did feel it was not convenient at the time.

[quras]

Just because it came later in the game doesn't mean it was evolution It was more of a evolution in convenience if anything...Not in Gameplay.

Incorrect. flying brought massive gameplay to wow. Bombing runs to name one. Interesting areas to see and mobs that were created to get you from teh air and dismount you. Areas in game that only flying can go.

So you are incorrect in your assumption. Sure it's biggest talent is better travel but don't think flying was just some fly by night addition.

It's story time now - I remember a time back in Burning Crusade in Shadowmoon Valley...Do you remember the huge amount of Blood Elves at that base below the Nether Island? Used to be a path going up a hill which had guards on both sides, and the commander would be on horseback with elite guards. I used to try and battle my way up to the top and keeping a eye out for the horse back guys so i didn't get galloped down and die. There was danger then..If you wanted up there you had to fight. One of many memories that would have been lost if i could fly.

So what your saying is you really like to RP a little but if given the option to do something you enjoy, you'll skip the the enjoyment crap of gaming for speed and efficiency? Cause your personal enjoyment it's really not all that important if it put you slightly behind other gamers?

Instead of doing something you like, you would rather skip it if you could.

Or worse yet, if someone else can skip it, it would somehow piss you off if you didn't want to skip it and they did? After all, they should be playing the way you do.

So what is it really, you can't control yourself and need someone to force you to do things you enjoy cause if left unattended, you would skip it all if you could. Sounds warped.

Maybe you just don't want others to have what they call fun but must experience "your" version.

I'm shocked your not on here debating the merits of removing any mechanic that would allow you to skip content be it rogues, hunters, mages or druids.

I've been flying and using the fly mount since they brought them in and i asked myself the question what memories do i have from flying? You know what comes to mind? Nothing really. I used it to mount up and fly away from battle PVE or PVP so i was safe. Looking back on it i would have had more fun being in the pit fight even if it did feel it was not convenient at the time.

Yea, too bad you couldn't bring yourself to do something you enjoy but would rather remove others enjoyment. Makes me wonder if your real enjoyment is taking it from others.

[rebecca191]

I have a lot of fond memories of flying. The first thing I did when I hit 77 was hearth back to Dalaran and then I bought flying. I headed back to Sholazar to finish the last few quests there that you needed flying for, but I decided to go through Icecrown on the way. The first time flying above that valley beyond the gate and seeing all those undead below was a real "holy shit" moment for me.

[Mafic]

Anyone who likes mmo's won't mind this change.

The entitled crowd will always continue to kick and scream to get what they want. They have been given thousands of reasons why and now have a blue post explaining as well. Their just choosing to ignore the obvious point. I hope, and I repeat hope these people quit. The challenge and exploration was what made the game great.

I have been playing "MMOs" for 15+ years.

No I will not play.

[quras]

I have a lot of fond memories of flying. The first thing I did when I hit 77 was hearth back to Dalaran and then I bought flying. I headed back to Sholazar to finish the last few quests there that you needed flying for, but I decided to go through Icecrown on the way. The first time flying above that valley beyond the gate and seeing all those undead below was a real "holy shit" moment for me.

That was pretty badass.

an experience you will not and cannot duplicate from the ground or from a auto piloted mount.

[DarkArchon]

Sounds warped.

Yep it is warped. Funny how that works isn't it? Just because you do something doesn't mean it was what you really wanted. When i fly from point A to point B and dive in on mobs when it's safe, is that what i wanted even tho that's the method i choose? Nope, that's not what i wanted. Even if am not thinking about it. It's just become the 'way' of doing things because everyone does it like that and it's all you've come to know. When am trying to battle up a hill and i keep glancing at my flying mount and i eventually get frustrated and use it, is that what i wanted? Does my actions reflect on what i really want? To be honest it's something i can't fully control and think a lot are in that boat, it needs to come from Blizzards end to remove the temptation and that thought from even being in my head and am happy it's finally happening.

[-Superman-]

Anyone who likes mmo's won't mind this change.

And people who LOVE RPGs will hate it. You will go from flying in on a dragon, to running in on a flaming mechanical steed



Yay fantasy immersion.

[Rankin]

lol what??? Please show me these statistics that show all of that was directly because of flying. I can 100% promise you it had nothing to do with it.

If flying had nothing to do with the success of this game, then removing it can not possibly accomplish anything either.

[Serenais]

If flying had nothing to do with the success of this game, then removing it can not possibly accomplish anything either.

If they remove anything that had nothing to do with the success of the game, they will end up with a very poor game in total - not to mention that flying was one of the selling points of Burning Crusade, and flying in old Azeroth was one of the selling points of Cataclysm. In general, removing estabilished features, even if people didn't chear about them being present, will end up badly, unless handled BRUTALLY well. Which is something that will end up problematic. Most players do not read any website or forums, so they will end up in a situation "I could fly from 60 to 90 (with the new heirloom book introduced in WoD), so... Why can't I fly at 100? Is my game broken?" and you can bet there will be a gazzilion threads about "where is the flight trainer in Draenor" or "I can't use my flying mount anymore; I tried repairing my game, etc., but it still doesn't work. Help!". I sincerelly do not expect there to be many threads about "I just found out I can't use my flying mount at endgame. YEAH!", for quite obvious reasons.
Sure, they can handle it BRUTALLY well, but question is, what would THAT mean. Just turning around and pretending flying never existed is a sure way to hell, and hopefully, they DO understand that. They can't present in a dense flight path network, otherwise they will simply defeat no flying right there on the spot, especially if, as stated by the blue, they want them to be as fast and as efficient as possible (aren't they shooting themselves in the foot here, anyway...). They either can't present a rather empty-ish flight path network either, because then you get back to "where can I learn to fly" problem. They can't have players to go through the same content again and again (as that promotes stereotype, and stereotype kills games), therefore they will have to provide content that will change in one way or another; that is going to end up stale anyway, so players will end up on flight paths sooner or later anyway, it is just a question of when, unless Blizzard finds a way to present content closeby VERY fast in rather large amounts - which, to be honest, is not humanly possible.
I might ask what will be the benefit of flying being removed at that point.