Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[Sweetpeaz]

If you can only play an hour a week then frankly an MMO probably isn't the right hobby for you. I don't mind lfr and am neutral myself on the whole flying thing, but mmos are a time investment by nature.

I bet you'd never hear a person at Blizzard say that. They don't care if you play 1 hour a week or 5 hours a day. A subscription is a subscription.

However, I'd love to know the litmus test applied to telling people when an MMO like WoW is the right game for somebody else.

[urasim]

Same old argument that is overused on this forum. He is simply stating that an mmo takes a lot of time investment, so typically if you don't have a lot of time to invest it wouldn't be worth most peoples time. He isn't telling anyone not to play, just offering a suggestion.

Why do you think it isn't worth their time? Do you speak for everyone?

The point: People do things they want regardless of time restraints because they find it enjoyable. You and him want them to not do what they enjoy because you think they have little time and that it isn't worth it.

You need to stop projecting yourself into everything and acquire some empathy. That way maybe you will understand why asking someone to not do something they enjoy, because you say so, is really dumb.

[Florena]

I'm not saying people shouldn't play WoW, but if you're so busy that you can only fit in one hour a week to play it, you're spending fifteen bucks a month on something you're hardly using. if that's worth it to you, then fine, but mmos are a time investment by design and nature, and if you can only afford an hour to play a week, well you need to accept that your progress in the game isn't going to be efficient. If people want to play, or are only able to play, an hour a week that's fine, but adding too much convenience risks harming the game in other ways.

[Nayaga]

I guess I wouldn't classify you as casual. I guess for me casual is about how much you achieve, not how much time it took you. In my mind if you clean normals and get that deep into heroics you are not a casual, even if you only play 6 hours a week. See you have RL time constraints but you still manage all of normal + heroics. Its the people who cry time constrains and claim they can only do LFR that I see as a problem.

I think it goes beyond available time. Some people don't like organized raids. Some people don't like spending hours fighting a single boss for 5 hours in progression, trying to get the boss down for the first time. Some people don't raid at all and enjoy WoW for pet battles, RP, farming or whatever. I think its great the Blizzard offers enough in the game to get a wide spectrum of players.

Maybe those that hate casual gamers should get Blizzard to organize a single "hardcore" server.

[Barkloud]

I think it goes beyond available time. Some people don't like organized raids. Some people don't like spending hours fighting a single boss for 5 hours in progression, trying to get the boss down for the first time. Some people don't raid at all and enjoy WoW for pet battles, RP, farming or whatever. I think its great the Blizzard offers enough in the game to get a wide spectrum of players.

Maybe those that hate casual gamers should get Blizzard to organize a single "hardcore" server.

I considered myself a casual because although I have tons of playtime, I do not have scheduled consistent playtime. I play more than most, but i no longer have a schedule that allows 6:00 to 9:00 every Tuesday and Thursday for a raid.

[cabyio]

I think it goes beyond available time. Some people don't like organized raids. Some people don't like spending hours fighting a single boss for 5 hours in progression, trying to get the boss down for the first time. Some people don't raid at all and enjoy WoW for pet battles, RP, farming or whatever. I think its great the Blizzard offers enough in the game to get a wide spectrum of players.

Maybe those that hate casual gamers should get Blizzard to organize a single "hardcore" server.

The more blizzard caters to those type of people the less people like me get... that's why I tend to have hostility toward them.

[urasim]

The more blizzard caters to those type of people the less people like me get... that's why I tend to have hostility toward them.

There is no proof of that. There is 49 bosses in mists and 47 bosses in burning crusade. One of the bosses in mists is made for hardcore players(well, technically two bosses were made for heroic raiders, but the one was a joke because you can zerg it down). Can you demonstrate that you get less content because of the casuals?

[Evilfish]

There is no proof of that. There is 49 bosses in mists and 47 bosses in burning crusade. One of the bosses in mists is made for hardcore players(well, technically two bosses were made for heroic raiders, but the one was a joke because you can zerg it down). Can you demonstrate that you get less content because of the casuals?

Yeah good luck convincing a hardcore of anything that comes out of a casual's mouth. Hardcores live with the idea that the game owes them more than the rest because they dedicate their life to it.

But there are other threads that debate this subject. I wanna know why these people are trying to take away my ability to fly?

Oh and please, cut the shit with "WE ARE DOING IT FOR WORLD PVP". Blizzard proved how much they care about world PVP when they fucked up the cooldown on the Timeless Isle censer or what you call that shit...

[Nayaga]

The more blizzard caters to those type of people the less people like me get... that's why I tend to have hostility toward them.

What "less" are people like you getting?

http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/...Tweets-DLC-423

Only .23% have cleared Heroic SoO, does it make sense for Blizzard to make more content for so few people?

[Aberzombie]

wrong.......find the blizzard quote saying that flying will make content slower and that its not best for the game. Honestly I know you play wildstar, pretty sure i have read your posts on that forum. It has no flying. its not a personal attack on you. it is a design decision and they don't need your permission to institute it. Don't like the product, don't buy it. You guys make it seem so much harder than it actually is.

Actually, but inviting player feedback on the issue and announcing that they will include/exclude flight based on said feedback... they are, in fact, actually giving "permission" granting power(s) on this issue to the players.

They're letting us vote on it and have agreed to be bound by that vote.

[Sorshen]

If the removal of flying is such a great idea for the game/immersion, why do we have such pre-emptive PR... "good ideas" have been implemented pretty silently so far - that's my take on the situation.

[Aberzombie]

So you would like to believe....I believe there will be no waves. You will only predict how things will be based off of your own perspective. Better to feel like you are whining for a cause I guess when in reality there is nothing to fight. It is a decision that you must deal with as will everyone else.

Flying is a feature used extensively by PvE oriented players to do non-instanced content (mat gathering, pet battles, achieve hunting, mount gathering, etc., et al).

Roughly 60% of the playerbase play on PvE servers. It is then easy to conclude that rougly 60% of players would be predisposed to dislike the removal of this feature.

It's also a given than only a small % of the playerbase post in various forums, read patch notes or keep up with "E-Zines" like MMOChampion, WoWInsider, etc., (Blizz says somewhere between 1% and 3% max).

60% of 7.6-million (current sub level) = 4,560,000 PvE subs predisposed to disliking removal of the feature.

3% of 4.56-million subs that "forum, etc." = 136,800 "forumers".

4.56-million subs - 136,800 "forumers" that are basically ignorant of what's going on and will be expecting flight when they ding level cap = 4,423,200 unhappy customers --- giver or take a little.

So, you're right it won't be a 'wave'. It won't even qualify as a mere tsunami. It will probably reach the scale of a "mass species extinction" event.

You do not piss off that many people and just pray for the best.

[cabyio]

What "less" are people like you getting?

http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/...Tweets-DLC-423

Only .23% have cleared Heroic SoO, does it make sense for Blizzard to make more content for so few people?

Every feature they develop like pet battles could have been something raiding or PvP focused. Their available development time is a pie. The more that is used for features I find stupid is less that's used for things I like.

Does it make sense for blizzard? no. But for the 50th fucking time, Players are not/should not want the same things that blizzard does. Players don't care about what's good for the game, they care about what's good for them.

- - - Updated - - -

Actually, but inviting player feedback on the issue and announcing that they will include/exclude flight based on said feedback... they are, in fact, actually giving "permission" granting power(s) on this issue to the players.

They're letting us vote on it and have agreed to be bound by that vote.

They did not agree to any kind of a vote or in any way to be bound by anything players do. All they said is they will parse the feedback and see. That requires nothing of them except to judge the feedback using their benchmarks and make their own decision. In no way is that even close to a vote. They might get a majority of people (i.e 56%) saying they don't like no flying, but still decide that there wasn't enough push back to put flying back in. There is no vote, blizzard is bound by nothing.

- - - Updated - - -

Flying is a feature used extensively by PvE oriented players to do non-instanced content (mat gathering, pet battles, achieve hunting, mount gathering, etc., et al).

Roughly 60% of the playerbase play on PvE servers. It is then easy to conclude that rougly 60% of players would be predisposed to dislike the removal of this feature.

Statistics isn't your strong point is it? That is a hell of a logical leap and in no way a valid conclusion. For example, what if half of your 60% on PvE servers do mainly instanced content. Well now your 4.56 million subs just dropped to 2.28 million. On top of that you cannot assume 100% of that 2.28 million is going to be pissed enough to quit or even pissed at all. So please don't try to bullshit us with really tenuous logic and something that barely even bares the name, "statistics". The truth is we don't know. Which is why blizzard is going to wait and see what happens. They are smart and do not rush to judgement.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Lets just get to brass tax. No flying is going to be a major change for the game. One that I feel is going to be for the better. It is obvious slower content consumption and interaction with the world blizzard creates is going to just be the best possible choice. Plus I let game designers design the game they please. If the design it away from my liking I will leave. That won't have much to do with flying or no flying. Either way I win because I can handle either. But the world is going to just be better with no flying. Best choice they can make in my opinion.

[urasim]

Every feature they develop like pet battles could have been something raiding or PvP focused. Their available development time is a pie. The more that is used for features I find stupid is less that's used for things I like.

Does it make sense for blizzard? no. But for the 50th fucking time, Players are not/should not want the same things that blizzard does. Players don't care about what's good for the game, they care about what's good for them.

How is it good for the game if they(Blizzard) alienate a very large portion of the player base? If Blizzard didn't attract those noob casuals, that you hate so much, they wouldn't have the funds to develop the content you like.

I'm hardcore gamer and I understand that this game wouldn't be nearly as well supported if they only catered to hardcore players.

Also, you have failed to demonstrate that we are getting less content because of casual players.

[Deleted]

What "less" are people like you getting?

http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/...Tweets-DLC-423

Only .23% have cleared Heroic SoO, does it make sense for Blizzard to make more content for so few people?

Its not about how many people clear it, its how many people want to clear it.

- - - Updated - - -

How is it good for the game if they(Blizzard) alienate a very large portion of the player base? If Blizzard didn't attract those noob casuals, that you hate so much, they wouldn't have the funds to develop the content you like.

I'm hardcore gamer and I understand that this game wouldn't be nearly as well supported if they only catered to hardcore players.

Also, you have failed to demonstrate that we are getting less content because of casual players.

That is a very debatable statement.

[urasim]

Lets just get to brass tax. No flying is going to be a major change for the game. One that I feel is going to be for the better. It is obvious slower content consumption and interaction with the world blizzard creates is going to just be the best possible choice. Plus I let game designers design the game they please. If the design it away from my liking I will leave. That won't have much to do with flying or no flying. Either way I win because I can handle either. But the world is going to just be better with no flying. Best choice they can make in my opinion.

Best possible choice based on what? How does removal of flight make the game better?

Are you saying it's the best possible choice for you or everyone? Are you saying it's better for everyone or just you?

Really simple questions that you will probably fail to answer... Oh well.

That is a very debatable statement.

Go ahead and try. That's what forums are for after all.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Best possible choice based on what? How does removal of flight make the game better?

Are you saying it's the best possible choice for you or everyone? Are you saying it's better for everyone or just you?

Really simple questions that you will probably fail to answer... Oh well.

It is the best possible choice for everyone. Removing flight slows content consumption, keeps people on the ground, keeps the world alive instead of half of it floating aimlessly above it.

Really simple answers that you will dismiss because you don't like them.. Oh well.

[gamingmuscle]

It is the best possible choice for everyone. Removing flight slows content consumption, keeps people on the ground, keeps the world alive instead of half of it floating aimlessly above it.

Really simple answers that you will dismiss because you don't like them.. Oh well.

It's the best possible choice in your mind. That does not make it the best choice. It's a very questionable choice in reality. We are losing a feature, one that has paid luxury items attached to it.

Slowing content consumption: Mildly. We are talking maybe adding days during the course of the expansion. And this is only in open world content, which some may just ignore all togther.

Keeping people on the ground isn't a benefit to everyone. It may be a small benefit to pvp...it might also be a detriment since most wpvp is just ganking. Some people, the open world content would have to be damn good to make them even venture out with flying. Without, it will have to be that much better....or required via some grind for something that as needed.

The world will be about as alive as vanilla....very active during the leveling phase...not so much at the max level phase.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

It's the best possible choice in your mind. That does not make it the best choice. It's a very questionable choice in reality. We are losing a feature, one that has paid luxury items attached to it.

Slowing content consumption: Mildly. We are talking maybe adding days during the course of the expansion. And this is only in open world content, which some may just ignore all togther.

Keeping people on the ground isn't a benefit to everyone. It may be a small benefit to pvp...it might also be a detriment since most wpvp is just ganking. Some people, the open world content would have to be damn good to make them even venture out with flying. Without, it will have to be that much better....or required via some grind for something that as needed.

The world will be about as alive as vanilla....very active during the leveling phase...not so much at the max level phase.

I believe it isn't the best choice only in your mind (and a small handful of people that post much, but are fewer in number then they would think -- or else they wouldnt have to post so much). Mild slowing of consumption IS slowing of consumption thus effective. Keeping in mind that I believe ground is a benefit to everyone, which you think other wise, it will be better.

When I bought a flying mount from the blizzard store I never saw an agreement that I would always be able to fly that mount. Plus that mount will still be usable. While that was a nice attempt to attach money to the issue it failed. Still usable. Still can fly in all other content. Nothing has changed.

No flying is going to be the best thing ever. For everyone.