Possibly no flying throughout entire xpac.

[CheeseSandwich]

The thing is that both of us on ground mounts != both of us on flying mounts. I can still catch up with you and make a hit when you're on a ground mount - with a flying one you become untouchable ( and able to chose to remain so indefinitely).

If a guy is riding away from you, how do you catch up as a rogue?

Even on my PvE server, when a flagged Ally was hovering above our shrine/Org/wherever, I was more than able to 'touch' them, multiple times in fact, as I flew above them, dismounted, cast corruption, switch meta, cast doom, demonic leap into meteor, repeat. How I laughed as I watched their unit frame as they flew away, slowly decaying to death.

Untouchable? No. A fun, killable challenge? Hell yes.

"But I'm a rogue!" Pffft.

[pankind]

I'm not sure you have the right expansion in mind? People will be going back to Cata? I'm not sure I follow you, please help me out. Colour me confused.

Tol Barad, Like Wintergrasp was, and Ashran will be, is a World PvP zone, being a place that exists in the world, right outside our home base, that promotes PvP.

If I was of a PvP mind, and keen to see honorable Alliance blood on my sword which makes more sense?

Option (a) : Riding up the road from my capital into the teeth of battle that gives incentives and rewards for participation, conveniently right there on my doorstep...

Or

Option (b) : Portal to my garrison, and ride out on water walker in the hope that eventually I might stumble upon someone that might not even want to play the same pvp game as me, so I can kill them for no reward....

Around 60% of the player base don't give a rat's ass for WPvP, so there is that too.

Yes people will be going back to zones introduced in cata, same as people are still going back to Hellfire Peninsula. Ganking low levels is a big part of the thought process, because they are baiting people to log on to max level characters to engage them. Most lowbies you see these days are playing alts. Zones like Tol Barad are seen as a means to an end. The battle for Tol Barad was a glorified battleground. The daily quest island was just a daily quest island where you might occasionally see the opposing faction.

Anyone who has leveled alts on populated PVP cross realms knows what goes on in Tanaris, Hellfire, Hyjal, Deepholm, and Uldum.

[Osmeric]

It is Blizzard, after all. Think about the hours playtime they earn by replacing a convenient travel implementation with 280% speed by a time consuming implementation at 100% travel speed.

Not many hours, actually.

If this just raises the amount of hours played in china by 1%, they make a lot more money.

I believe they earn less than $2/month per player in China, on average. If there are 3M players there now, 1% is about $60,000/month. A rounding error in the quarterly reports.

Then think about the fact the open world is not yet done. Where no flying "helps", if i may quote CM Lore.

Reports from the PTR say the zones are fully 3D. They aren't saving art money by not allowing flying.

Really, the simplest and most consistent reason for what they're doing is the one they've given. But for some reason, you insist they are lying. I suspect it's because if you admitted their reasons are real, you would have no case beyond mere personal preference. So, you have to try to smear them.

[urasim]

Then why do tons of people say they are excited for a reinvigorated WPvP? All you have to offer is "WPvP is dead because i say so" yet there are tons of people that welcome no flying for exactly that reason. Pretty much invalidates your speculation.

They're under a delusion? I don't know why someone would say something so silly.

"Tons" of people, huh? How many is tons? There are "tons" people that want flight. I guess that means people don't want WPvP.

WPvP is dead. There are zones right now that have no flight right now, and practically no one is there killing other people. Not to mention no one is going to WPvP in the open world when they have ashran to play in(if you want to WPvP), and that zone is meant to be flightless forever.

- - - Updated - - -

This statement would be true if I was able to use my abilities on a flying mount. Alas, I can't.

My huge experience doing wpvp on wotlk server disagrees with you. Let's just leave it at that.



I play 3.3.5 server once in a while cause arenas and BGs there are not as retarded as they are right now (and pvp metagame too).

And no, I don't think world magically will become populated again once flying is removed - I am just glad that my targets will have less options of escaping me.

I'll actually have a better chance of escape with the new skill changes.

You really don't know what's going on in WoD, do you?

[Fiannor]

The thing is that both of us on ground mounts != both of us on flying mounts. I can still catch up with you and make a hit when you're on a ground mount - with a flying one you become untouchable ( and able to chose to remain so indefinitely).



This has been discussed ad nauseum before - there is no choice involved here when the other option is stupidly better.

Well the point is, apparently not everyone does think one option is "stupidly better", since we have so many rhapsodizing about the wonders of ground travel. Anyone who thinks it is so great is free even now to go ahead and immerse their butts off. What is annoying is their desire to force their opinions on others, to the point that it worsens the game for those who disagree with them. Just because others are flying and suddenly the immersers feel disadvantaged does not require them to take up the evil of flying. If they are truly enamored of the ground experience it should make no difference. In fact, it should make them feel more virtuous and superior!

[Deleted]

Not many hours, actually.

How do you know?

I believe they earn less than $2/month per player in China, on average. If there are 3M players there now, 1% is about $60,000/month. A rounding error in the quarterly reports.

I dont know how much they earn per player a month. I wonder how you know. I know they earn 0,045 Yuan per hour, which is around 6 cents. I have no statistics how many players play how many hours. But no matter what, increased travel time also increases the money made in china. And even if its a total of 60,000$ a month only.

I would believe this is incentive enough to raise time played by easy solutions on just disabling flying for at least a complete patch cycle.

Reports from the PTR say the zones are fully 3D. They aren't saving art money by not allowing flying.

But not all zones are done yet. Also you should watch the discussion Lore made.

Really, the simplest and most consistent reason for what they're doing is the one they've given.

You really believe they removed flying for immersion? Thats rather funny.

But for some reason, you insist they are lying. I suspect it's because if you admitted their reasons are real, you would have no case beyond mere personal preference. So, you have to try to smear them.

I do not smear them. I am just realistic. And you are idealistic, and think they are nice people. They are, as i said, a multi billion dollar company. They want to make money out of a game where most of the players are burned out for playing it or similiar clones for years already. They are in a cash cow phase with wow and sell level up boosts to level 90 just for money.

Tell me, why should a company, which does do that, care about "immersion"?

[Ninepenny]

If a guy is riding away from you, how do you catch up as a rogue?

Nitro boots, but if he notices me from a fair distance and rides away, I won't bother. The thing is, most of the time, they don't notice me. Also, I am glad you were able to pull that stuff near the Shrine as a ranged class, but not everyone plays them.

Well the point is, apparently not everyone does think one option is "stupidly better", since we have so many rhapsodizing about the wonders of ground travel.

And yet it IS stupidly better - fact. And you'd be a fool to deny it.

[urasim]

World PVP is still happening on the active cross-realms. Gadgetzan always has some stuff going on. You may not enjoy it, or be interested in it at all, but that doesn't change the fact that access to flying absolutely changes the dynamic of PVP at Gadgetzan. Too bad that's not changing. There aren't a lot of world PVP hot spots in Pandaria. People will still prefer Azeroth for that. Even in places where you might expect conflict, like the Ring of Honor in Nagrand, there won't be much aside from the very few PVP servers that have a reasonably balanced alliance to horde player ratio. As with Pandaria we won't be seeing cross-realm enabled zones in Draenor for some time.

I love WPvP. But, I know when something is dead based on the participation... You tend to know when it's dead when you can only see a single person, for hours, in the ground only areas of the current expansion. Removing flight won't do shit. Why? Because we already have flightless areas that are dead(and have been dead for months and months).

[gamingmuscle]

Really, the simplest and most consistent reason for what they're doing is the one they've given. But for some reason, you insist they are lying. I suspect it's because if you admitted their reasons are real, you would have no case beyond mere personal preference. So, you have to try to smear them.

How exactly has any of their claims been clear and air tight that no flight is better? It's been there are problems, trust us this is better than any other option. Which is junk. LOL

[urasim]

Nitro boots, but if he notices me from a fair distance and rides away, I won't bother. The thing is, most of the time, they don't notice me. Also, I am glad you were able to pull that stuff near the Shrine as a ranged class, but not everyone plays them.

Nitro boots are heavily nerfed in the expansion. Just sayin'.

[CheeseSandwich]

Of course it's "possible". Many game designs are "possible". Blizzard just has chosen not to pursue them.

I know, rather than develop and expand on an ingrained feature, they chose to cut it, maybe. They don't actually know yet, because they don't have the confidence in their own design, but they are definitely considering that maybe they are as talented as they think they are and that the general player base won't notice no flight. But if they do notice and don't like it, they'll bring it back, maybe.

You do realize that you couldn't fly in the Old World until Cataclysm?

This, my friend, is my point. There were places in a world that had flight at max level, that also had places where people couldn't fly, and WPvP flourished in them. In your situation, it is Tanaris (I'm gonna assume Gadgetzhan predominantly), in Cata, it was Molten Front/ Hyjal (even in the flying part) and TB, in MoP it was IoT, TI, the PvP vendors (imagine that!), the world bosses and all of southern KW post 5.1 (sic) which ALSO included flying.

Where Blizz wants to, it can and has facilitated WPvP in an overworld that includes flight at max level. The fact they can't now, should speak volumes.

[Ordinator]

Ashran is the WPvP of the next expac. Where else will this max level WPvP happen? At world bosses, where people congregate now anyway, with flying? At max level content areas, where people will be on the ground doing it anyway? Or while you are randomly riding around on your ground mount through 90-99 level questing areas?

Flying helps you get to the first 2, where the WPvP happens, and cuts down time finding targets for WPvP in the 3rd.

Much like MoP, Blizzard has stated every zone will have more content in it beyond the purpose of leveling. That means, at max level, and with everyone inside the actual world (not above it) the options for world pvp are much more available.

[Mafic]

I am a Rogue and I am on a PVP server so I am not sure why people have a hard time ganking people despite flying mounts are enabled.

A Rogue has :

Cheap shot
Kidney Shot
Crippling
Blind

If you want to take it further (this expansion) Paralytic shiv root and stun.

With Nighstalker and BoS, I am pretty much a mount in stealth lol.

World PVP died in Warlords of Draenor when they moved the capital cities. The mature thing to do is accept that Blizz wants to funnel people's "world PVP desires" into Ashran as you can obtain conquest points there, and even do PVE activities.

[urasim]

Reports from the PTR say the zones are fully 3D. They aren't saving art money by not allowing flying.

Really, the simplest and most consistent reason for what they're doing is the one they've given. But for some reason, you insist they are lying. I suspect it's because if you admitted their reasons are real, you would have no case beyond mere personal preference. So, you have to try to smear them.

They actually have been lying to us about some of the reasons. They mentioned they want to slow player progression(they've actually been saying this for a very long time), and they swiftly deleted that post as if it were a mistake. Their true intent is to slow us down. Which is a bullshit way of doing it since it won't slow me down at all...

Much like MoP, Blizzard has stated every zone will have more content in it beyond the purpose of leveling. That means, at max level, and with everyone inside the actual world (not above it) the options for world pvp are much more available.

You get quests and some really tedious grinds for epic gear(which is optional) at max level. Many players will skip those altogether as they aren't needed for character progression.

[Ordinator]

This is more than just flying/flying. It is about in game transportation. Simply shutting off flying would increase 10 minutes of travel time to 30 minutes of travel time.

Could you explain this line of logic?

[Mafic]

They increased XP required to level in the recent beta build so slowing down progression is their prime directive. This is why they will not release 6.1 one month out as they will not repeat the mistake they made in MoP.

To craft 1 Hexweave Cloth I need an absurd amount of mats cross gather professions:

20 Sumptuous Fur and 10 Gorgond flytraps.

http://wod.wowhead.com/spell=168835/...-cloth#recipes

[gamingmuscle]

Much like MoP, Blizzard has stated every zone will have more content in it beyond the purpose of leveling. That means, at max level, and with everyone inside the actual world (not above it) the options for world pvp are much more available.

They majority wasn't above it. The people crossing the zones on flying mounts will be replaced by a handful of people on flight paths. And then a few on ground mounts to their destinations. The amount of people will not increase noticeably unless the content provided is enough to get them out of the cities. And if it is, there is no strong need to remove flying for wpvp. But they totally need to bring back dismounts mechanics so I can troll people with typhoon.

[rebecca191]

It never died for me - the intensity of it just slowed down to some extent.

It will be much more frequent in WoD now that my targets can't enter their SUPERMAN mode by doing a measly 1.5 sec cast.

Too bad they will all be queuing from their garrisons or the crappy Trashran faction cities instead.

[urasim]

Could you explain this line of logic?

Flying mounts are three times faster than ground mounts. The logic is "2+2=4"... It's really simple.

[CheeseSandwich]

Yes people will be going back to zones introduced in cata, same as people are still going back to Hellfire Peninsula. Ganking low levels is a big part of the thought process, because they are baiting people to log on to max level characters to engage them. Most lowbies you see these days are playing alts. Zones like Tol Barad are seen as a means to an end. The battle for Tol Barad was a glorified battleground. The daily quest island was just a daily quest island where you might occasionally see the opposing faction.

Anyone who has leveled alts on populated PVP cross realms knows what goes on in Tanaris, Hellfire, Hyjal, Deepholm, and Uldum.

Sooooo, what your saying is, the WPvP you and others seek is the ganking of low level questing toons?

Just by leveling, they are TAUNTING you to gank them? What the actual flying fuck??????????????????

Because a low level toon might be an alt, it is fine to gank all low level toons?

The WPvP zone, like BG's or hell, anything else in this game, was a means to an end? You don't say..............

The quest island was a quest island you say? A PvP place, with PvP quests, where you had a good PvP chance to see the opposite PvP faction, at max PvP level, and have a PvP choice to PvP attack them or PvP not? Yeah that's totally not WPvP, ganking lowbies is.

60% of the people who play WoW have no idea what goes on on a populated cross realm PvP server, because they don't care about WPvP at all, hence them rolling on a PvE server.