WoD Dev Interviews, Flying in Draenor, Hearthsteed Colors, Mar 11 Hotfixes, Garrison

[Keile]

.....I think I'll need a larger cup for all these delicious spoiled-people tears. *whistles and the sound of a dump truck backing up is heard*

It honestly doesnt bother me that they are removing flying. It helps make world PVP more fun, it brings back exploration, and it just overall helps with immersion, they spend a lot of time crafting every rock and blade of grass for this new world and I don't blame them one bit for wanting you to see it all. The flying mounts you paid gold to allow you to fly were paid for...to allow flight in THAT content. This is why every expansion had it's own price to allow flight.

[Kaleredar]

Good to hear it, apparently you're a different person on the forums.

Calling people out on their BS doesn't make me a "less sociable" person.

See and this is why I pointed it out. Relying on people isn't a bad thing, hell it makes people easier to replace if the inevitable happens: they grow bored of the game. Suddenly you cannot raid anymore, because you didn't have anyone as back up.

OQ works wonders.

I'm not getting touchy, I'm just saying it's a welcome change, after seven years it's very refreshing to see that Blizzard is finally growing a pair again and completely changing stuff and test it out, even though it might cost them a lot of subscribers (I'm looking at the ability bloat as well).

Taking unilateral risks to fix things that aren't broken and wont fix things that ARE broken is not the way to go.

I'm not a poetic nor do I try to be.

Comforting.

I agree that Blizzard really isn't good in creating dynamic events, but do keep in mind that Timeless Isle is only for low-level geared people and achievement "whores" or reputation "whores". Warlords of Draenor will be home for everyone, and thus charging that bridge isn't so dangerous anymore, because there's 40 people instead of 5.

That doesn't really matter either way, nor does it make those annoying mobs any less annoying. If I see some lone person getting thrashed by a mob that it takes some exorbitant number of people to kill, I'm not going to valiantly run in so I can get clobbered as well. Just like with the bridge Yaungol... I'm going to keep on running past.

Nor does that address my specific points.

I honestly think at this point it's best to keep no-flying forever. But only on PvP realms, or maybe even specific PvP realms. Keep flying enabled on PvE realms after they leveled first. On PvP realms, it was very annoying that max levels were already able to fly in Pandaria, while you couldn't as a leveler. Sure, it's a PvP realm and I don't really mind getting corpse camped for an hour or two once in a while, but 77% resilience vs 40% resilience and no flying vs flying makes it literally impossible to kill the ganker and to get away as well. Now, they said they wanted to fix the immense power a higher level player has over a lower level player. But they also specifically stated that once a max level player is out to get you, you're screwed.

Ganking is ganking.

So yeah, on a PvP realm, it would be very awesome to see the no-flying experiment to be successful and be permanent. It's also a very good way to meet friends, hell, I got several Alliance (I'm Horde) on my friends list because we had a nice fight in Hellfire Peninsula, I talk to them every day. Yet another reason why you shouldn't see people purely to get you from A to B, you won't make any friends.

Not everyone has the same experience as you. I had no such experiences back on old Azeroth or through any leveling content.

In fact, the most RECENT bout of "friend making" I had was hunting down the Zandalari warbringers back in 5.2. I could solo them. Two other guys I happened across while farming could also solo them. We banded together to monopolize the spawns. And you know what we were gallivanting around Pandaria on while farming these Zandalari Warbringers? Flying mounts. In fact, our little joint venture would likely have been all but impossible without flying mounts allowing for swift and easy traversal of Pandaria. You know that 400 foot chasm between the northwest coast of jade forest (close to the spawn of one warbringer) and the southeast coast of Kun'lai (the spawn point of another warbringer?) That takes about 35 seconds to fly across. It would probably take half an hour to get around on foot. You can say "well that might have happened with ground mounts!" but the important factor is is that it happened with flying mounts completely involved and integral to the experience. So apparently it's very much possible to "make buddies" with flying mounts.

[Yriel]

And they are getting my sub fee back and I will buy the xpac because I like how they are fixing the crap that MoP brought (not just flying included). So this goes 2 ways.

What other "crap that MoP brought" are they fixing?

[Deleted]

Ok, some arguments for no flying:

Slower leveling - you can't fly while leveling through the new area in any expansion

Slower gathering - you can assign your garrison to do your gathering for you - "But i want to use my garrison followers for other purposes" - that is your choice then, but the gathering is still as fast.

Slower traveling - flight paths mean anything to you? and there's also the bonus of 150% ground mounts

Worse immersion - are you serious?

Ground mount traveling is boring - yeah, flying in the clouds for 5 minutes not being able to afk is so much more fun.

I don't like world PvP - Then why on earth are you on a pvp realm?

Losing the ability to fly on all my kewl mounts that i have gathered - This is a valid argument

I lose the ability to explore the zones - If this actually happens, that is just blizzard doing some bad quality zone designing, even in TBC you could reach every single objective you were suposed to get to without a flying mount (unless the objective specifically required a flying mount)

I lose all my money spent into acquiring the flying skills - First of all, you still need those skills to fly outside of Draenor and second do you honestly believe that 10000 gold is a large amount over the course of 7 years?

From the top of my head i could only come up with 1 solid argument against removing and that is the fact that you can't use all the mounts you have collected to harness their full potential, but this only applies to the new zones and in the old content you are still free to fly wherever you like. I know that people have more, but i want to see some solid arguments instead of "My opinion is the most powerful one in the hole world"

[derphurrdurr]

That garrison screenshot looks awesome. Way better than how I imagined them to look like in game.

[Shiroh]

I really hope they stick to no-flying for the first patch or might not even buy the expansion.

[Seditian]

Calling people out on their BS doesn't make me a "less sociable" person.

I don't mind calling people on their BS, it just sounded... whatever, let's just drop that part.

OQ works wonders.

OQueue is a very good addon indeed, but I think most of its potential is for Flex, and a bit for normal. Although I do look for high-level PvPers in OQueue as well, as there are indeed some gems out there. So yeah, you're right.

Taking unilateral risks to fix things that aren't broken and wont fix things that ARE broken is not the way to go.

I think they gave us the reason that it takes a lot less development time and that they don't want players to fly from A to B when questing. You could say that giving flying at max level should be enough for this, I'm just going to leave a post of me from somewhere else here:

Honestly, if they implement it right, I don't see a problem with them testing out no-flying for a while. Not having flying didn't feel like a drag at all in Mists of Pandaria while leveling. That's while its flight paths are complete horse shit. If they finally stopped forcing scenic flight routes down our throat (or at least make them optional), travel time wouldn't be that much longer, it would also throw some gold out of the economy. If they also make ore/herb nodes spawn closer to eachother, like in Vanilla zones (where you often see 5+ nodes on a single minimap), it wouldn't make gathering a drag either, because everything would be more concentrated. Adding a flight path to every single town (like in MoP) and to raid instances would also help.

They would also have to make the running animation of a lot of flying mounts a whole lot better, though.

Long story short: Blizzard could pull it off, removing flight from the game, but it would require quite a bit of work. It seems they really want to do it, though, and if they do it right, it could be really awesome.

Basically, if they do it right, I don't think people would hate it as much as they hate it currently.

That doesn't really matter either way, nor does it make those annoying mobs any less annoying. If I see some lone person getting thrashed by a mob that it takes some exorbitant number of people to kill, I'm not going to valiantly run in so I can get clobbered as well. Just like with the bridge Yaungol... I'm going to keep on running past.

Nor does that address my specific points.

That's something they can address, yes those Yaungol chargers are annoying and way too lethal for people, especially since it's mostly meant for people to gear up there. But again, that's easily addressed. Blizzard cannot fix the community when they leave people to die, they should however change questing accordingly.

Ganking is ganking.

Oh I know, which is why I specifically said that I don't mind getting corpse camped. But in TBC, if you were a lot better (like, 2.4k arena rating vs 2k rating), you'd win as a level 65 against a level 70. I guess they're addressing it with the item squish + the base resilience/battle fatigue mostly going away. That fixes the combat part, but that still wouldn't fix the flying vs ground part that so many people seem to love. Everyone should be able to fly, or no one should. At least then you have equal chances to get away, well apart from Rogues/Druids/Mages, those will always get away, if they want to.

Not everyone has the same experience as you. I had no such experiences back on old Azeroth or through any leveling content.

I know that, but nor does everyone have the same experience as you, so that's not really a good argument. Whether or not more people would love to keep flying is currently debatable, and which way Blizzard cares the most about, only time will tell.

In fact, the most RECENT bout of "friend making" I had was hunting down the Zandalari warbringers back in 5.2. I could solo them. Two other guys I happened across while farming could also solo them. We banded together to monopolize the spawns. And you know what we were gallivanting around Pandaria on while farming these Zandalari Warbringers? Flying mounts. In fact, our little joint venture would likely have been all but impossible without flying mounts allowing for swift and easy traversal of Pandaria. You know that 400 foot chasm between the northwest coast of jade forest (close to the spawn of one warbringer) and the southeast coast of Kun'lai (the spawn point of another warbringer?) That takes about 35 seconds to fly across. It would probably take half an hour to get around on foot. You can say "well that might have happened with ground mounts!" but the important factor is is that it happened with flying mounts completely involved and integral to the experience. So apparently it's very much possible to "make buddies" with flying mounts.

Guess what? You, and a lot of people who also think like you, are not looking at the big picture. That 400 foot chasm between those two areas? It wouldn't have existed if flying mounts weren't there. A) it would've been either smaller, or entirely different and b) a flight path can do pretty much the same, especially if you have a deal with eachother that person A gets area A to camp, person B gets area B to camp and person C gets area C to camp. Even in Mists of Pandaria, the flight path between Jade Forest and Kun-lai Summit takes a few minutes, at max.

A lot of people seem to forget that Flight Paths are a lot faster than the fastest flying mount, but Blizzard forces the flight paths around scenic routes. These scenic routes should be optional (especially if they become mandatory). They shouldn't outright remove scenic routes either, because that'll be the only way you can see things from the sky in Draenor.

[jesirawr]

Great, they pretty much told us that we have to be a bunch of whining bitches if we want to see flying back. What a joy.

[Deleted]

No flying. Sorry don't get it.... See no advantages at all.

So we wont be able to skip quest hubs so does this mean that each zone will feel more like its "on rails"? A to B to C. Doesn't that go against what an MMO is?
The devs want us to appreciate every blade of grass they have made. Sure i will do... but after 6 weeks i wont care anymore...

[Seditian]

No flying. Sorry don't get it.... See no advantages at all.

So we wont be able to skip quest hubs so does this mean that each zone will feel more like its "on rails"? A to B to C. Doesn't that go against what an MMO is?
The devs want us to appreciate every blade of grass they have made. Sure i will do... but after 6 weeks i wont care anymore...

What? If anything, every quest zone is as linear as it can be. Since Cataclysm's revamp of the old areas, everything has became very linear, or "on rails". Want to help out that Warchief in Stonetalon Mountains? Nope, have to help out that cave dweller at the start of the area first. Want to help the Dwarves in Twilight Highlands? Nope, have to phase them in first with the arrival quests.

Phasing is one of the best things in this game, but it does make questing very linear and after the first time, very boring. Pandaria is exactly the same, sadly. If anything, Warlords of Draenor will put a stop to this, because you have random events/quests in the middle of nowhere popping up on your screen.

You could argue that flying is a lot of fun, and a lot of people do, I get that. But the things you just posted aren't there.

[quras]

So I'll have to cross my fingers that enough will bother to care about flying? Joy.

Truth is, I've decided to just not buy the expansion at all till flying is added back as a max level skill.

blizzard can go without my money from the increased box price and normal sub fee.

I've played when we had no flying, it's not as fun. I enjoy the game less.

So, it's a move from blizzard I will not support.

We'll have to see how we all feel about it in Warlords. I'm not saying Unsub(Cause that's a bit harsh to do). Giving constructive feedback will. Usually I would say getting rid of flying is silly but I don't know how Warlords of Draenor will be in terms of gameplay so it might be different. This is my personal feelings on this. Once I do, part of me hopes I change my mind, the other is concerned.

Why would you give blizzard any money when they do something this drastic. Removing a great addition to the game that has been there for nearly 7 years just so some game company can experiment with the paying subscribers?

Screw that.

here is some constructive feed back: Design the game around flying and not removing it. Lets gamers decide if they want to be grounded or not.

[lunchbox2042]

If they rework every major continent with flying to work without it, then they can remove it altogether. Honestly, I sort of hope they do because then that's gold I can save my characters when they level up by not having to purchase epic flying followed up by whatever other lame flying training they add in the expansion.

[dustdog]

the garrison picture is beautiful

not looking forward to being on a pvp server with imbalance though lol

[Noomz]

I like flying mounts, but I'm alright with no flying. I don't mind it at all. Then again, I've played since vanilla and I'm not unfamiliar with no flying.

[Seditian]

Truth is, I've decided to just not buy the expansion at all till flying is added back as a max level skill.

blizzard can go without my money from the increased box price and normal sub fee.

I've played when we had no flying, it's not as fun. I enjoy the game less.

So, it's a move from blizzard I will not support.



Why would you give blizzard any money when they do something this drastic. Removing a great addition to the game that has been there for nearly 7 years just so some game company can experiment with the paying subscribers?

Screw that.

here is some constructive feed back: Design the game around flying and not removing it. Lets gamers decide if they want to be grounded or not.

I respect them for it. This is the first expansion since years that they do something drastic, which is awesome. They were too afraid to do new things, because they were scared of losing too many subscribers. Now that they've seen that staying the same old stale game doesn't work either, they're finally realizing they have to do something drastic to keep people interested. Whether or not this is the right thing to do to get more subscribers is something we cannot tell until 6.1.

[Mormolyce]

Dear Blizzard,

STOP THINKING FOR US!!!

Thanks,
Your players.

I'm sorry, is this the same "players" who've been making threads on these very fucking forums for years bemoaning flying mounts and wishing they were removed?

[Siddown]

By the time you hit max level, flying is used for gathering herbs/ore and griefing players on a PvP server, that's about it. You can get into every dungeon/BG without it, and (at least in MOP) there are plenty of Flight Points around that you'd never need fly anyway.

When I log into MOP, my hearth is set to the Shrine and I can get there every 15 minutes, I can teleport to Timeless Isle (no flying there anyway), I can take a flight point to the PvP vendors and Isle of Thunder (for the 700 free honor in 15 minutes, and there's no flying there either). The only time I've actually needed to fly (outside collecting Ore, which I could do on a ground mount in Jade Forest with zero problems) was flying from the Shine to the start of SoO for the TI quests that make you see the visions, which is all of what, 300 meters, and if I wanted to I could get their though the UI anyway.

Really, other than griefing lowbies by dropping in on them while they level, flying is not all that important at 90 in Panda Land.

[Fudge]

Let´s sell one more flying mount on the store before no one can use it in Draenor ...

^ This, 1000x this ^ You cannot continue to milk your player base for flying mounts in the Blizz store, all the while, planning to remove it upon launch. To the people who are going to say "you can still use them as ground mounts"... That's like taking a 747 out for a drive on the highway.... The flying mounts are bulky and clunky while running around on the ground, and if they can't fly they might as well all be penguins. That or make a melee hunter spec again so I can understand who cast "wing clip" on all the mounts.

hate flying mounts, world will definitely be more dynamic/engaging by getting rid of them. example: everyone rushes to rare spawn, rapes it, everyone mounts up and flies away immediately ,leaving the ground empty and deserted

World will be more dynamic using that example?!? Lol.. Timeless isle has shown that it's not more dynamic... Everyone rushes to rare spawn area, camps area forever, nukes mob mounts up and rides away immediately, leaving the ground empty and deserted.... If there was flying on timeless isle there would be less lag points where people sit and camp mobs on respawn since people could effectively get to the mobs before they die.

[Kourvith]

Because trusting a userbase of 7 million kids about intelligently putting something into perspective will work. Sure.

Want a good balance ? Put fatigue into flying.

[Tedstery]

I sometimes feel sorry for blizzard. They get incredibly mixed messages from the playerbase.