A great MMO cannot happen without a subscription and is a major reason WoW's on top

[Huehuecoyotl]

Pfff. Blizzard won the contest simply by being the BEST. ALL the rest dissapeared from the PAID subscription market.

The BEST PVE/the BEST PvP for an MMORPG/the BEST seamless open world without loading screens/ the BEST Raid content the BEST solution to solve the "ever dying server" problems by connecting them seamlessly.

The BEST art, I could go on.

How many subs your beloved GW2 would have if people needed to pay 15 dollars a month. < 100K as usual.

Have a nice day dreaming about imaginary subscription competition.

The competition vanished in the subscription field. And the new ones will vanish as quickly as the old ones of which half don't even have servers running anymore.

Blizzard OWNS the competition in every field they enter. yep that includes the ARPG , the RTS, the MMO and now the CCG genre.

Hearthstone blows other CCG already away in a matter of weeks/months. Imagine that: a game that existed for 20 years and dominated everything in the CCG genre is now blown to pieces on the internet by a simple Blizzard product....


Coincidence ? LOL.

It's like reading a press release from the Blizzard PR department. Actually it isn't, because not even a PR department would be this absurdly over the top.

The best art? Really? You are even suggesting that WoW has the best art in the MMO genre? There are plenty of places you can go to try and prove how great WoW is, but really, this isn't one of them.

As for "disappearing from the subscription market", it may have escaped your attention, but Blizzard have substantially disappeared from this market recently. After all, they are probably responsible for 75% of the people that have been removed from the MMO subscription market, as they went from 12 million to 7 million "subscribers".

Are they still top in the ARPG market? Time will tell, they messed up D3 to such an extent that they may well have driven a number of people away permanently.

But why am I wasting my breath? If you do respond to this, it will be to repeat what you have already said again. I have never seen you pay any attention to a single point anyone else makes. It's like trying to have a debate with a speak-your-weight machine.

[BenBos]

It's like reading a press release from the Blizzard PR department. Actually it isn't, because not even a PR department would be this absurdly over the top.

The best art? Really? You are even suggesting that WoW has the best art in the MMO genre? There are plenty of places you can go to try and prove how great WoW is, but really, this isn't one of them.

As for "disappearing from the subscription market", it may have escaped your attention, but Blizzard have substantially disappeared from this market recently. After all, they are probably responsible for 75% of the people that have been removed from the MMO subscription market, as they went from 12 million to 7 million "subscribers".

Are they still top in the ARPG market? Time will tell, they messed up D3 to such an extent that they may well have driven a number of people away permanently.

But why am I wasting my breath? If you do respond to this, it will be to repeat what you have already said again. I have never seen you pay any attention to a single point anyone else makes. It's like trying to have a debate with a speak-your-weight machine.

It must be a really hard time for Blizzard haters these days with D3, Hearthstone, WOW as the ONLY survivor in the 1 million subscription market and the SC2 e-sports things.

And YEP: there IS NO MORE a subscription competition. Every old one LEFT the room and I am quite sure the "new" ones will follow within ONE year of release after seeing their servers dwindle like Rift (99>15 and SW TOR 223>17)...

Instead of your usual fighting WOW, you now face a 7 headed dragon which just keeps growing its franchises like hell.

If you didn't realise it yet: HS is HOTTER than hot these days.

I still remember last year when they introduced it in March: WTF a mediocre card game, what was Blizzard thinking ....

Have fun fighting them.

And HOTS is not even in beta.

You talk SXXt man. Just because of frustration. Have a life instead of fighting a game company which proved to conquer every segment they entered.

[Deleted]

Pfff. Blizzard won the contest simply by being the BEST. ALL the rest dissapeared from the PAID subscription market.

The BEST PVE/the BEST PvP for an MMORPG/the BEST seamless open world without loading screens/ the BEST Raid content the BEST solution to solve the "ever dying server" problems by connecting them seamlessly.

The BEST art, I could go on.

I think you need to learn the difference between popular opinion and fact. All of the above you mention, are subject opinions, popular at that seeing as 7.x million people are willing to back it. There is no objective way to say that PvE, PvP, artstyle or world design is best in WoW.

[Huehuecoyotl]

It must be a really hard time for Blizzard haters these days with D3, Hearthstone, WOW as the ONLY survivor in the 1 million subscription market and the SC2 e-sports things.

And YEP: there IS NO MORE a subscription competition. Everyone old one LEFT the room and I am quite sure the "new" ones will follow within ONE year of release after seeing their servers dwindle like Rift (99>15 and SW TOR 223>17)...

Instead of your usual fighting WOW, you now face a 7 headed dragon which just keeps growing its franchises like hell.

If you didn't realise it yet: HS is HOTTER than hot these days.

I still remember last year when they introduced it in March: WTF a mediocre card game, what was Blizzard thinking ....

Have fun fighting them.

And HOTS is not even in beta.

You talk SXXt man.

Ignored what I said....check.
Repeated what you already said.....check.
Reads like a Blizzard PR release......check.

More along folks, just another BenBos post. Nothing to see here.

[Huggykaze]

Nah, this is honestly not true. You'd think it would be, to fund development, but somehow, it doesn't seem to be.

Arenanet manages to push out voice acted content with cutscenes on a regular basis, far more content than Blizzard pushes out between major patches.

The main reasons for WoW being 'on top' are two fold:

a) Inertia. People have friends there, people are used to their characters, so they feel bound to carry on.
b) Addiction to 'gear treadmill' style gameplay, which other games will find harder to sell, as it is a very played out game design.

Still a solid game, but it really isn't as unique and sparkly these days as some people believe.

Inertia is a reason, but mate. How clunky GW2 looks compared to WoW. GW2 is a cool game, ok they have voiced content, and cutscenes. Because these are essence of MMOs. They are just bonuses.

In theory there are games better than WoW. But creators focus too much on small stuff, in the end game has cool features but is buggy, has no real content or simply runs awfully. Happened to SWtOR, WHO, AoC etc. MMO needs: stability (no bugs, no lags, good performance), content (which cannot be stale), equal footing for different players and graphics which will suffice for few years. Every damn game released after WoW lacked one or more of these. WHO was unstable, SWtOR was unstable, AoC was unstable. Many other games lack that equal footing, because of in-game shops with P2W idea. It's great that people try to expand the genre, but they miss out on the very basics! They lack time and/or cash to finish the game. Of course WoW was unstable as f*ck in the beginning, but there was no competition. Right now you your game to be at the level of MoP right from the beginning - at the level of 10 years of experience, fixes and updates.

[LilSaihah]

You talk SXXt man. Just because of frustration. Have a life instead of fighting a game company which proved to conquer every segment they entered.

i think i died and went to ironic heaven

[BenBos]

Ignored what I said....check.
Repeated what you already said.....check.
Reads like a Blizzard PR release......check.

More along folks, just another BenBos post. Nothing to see here.

Answer the calls I make instead of inventing things: Blizzard is the only one left standing in the multi million subscription market.

Why ? According to you it is because people are stupid.

According to me: it is because that MMO competition sucked BIG time.


As stated, it is NO coincidence that Blizzard dominates every market segment they enter.

You say because people are stupid.

I say because people are smart and see the differences between a Blizzard product and the "would be" ones.

----

The end result is that you are frustrated and roam these forums to put out all the negativity you can find.

I am the one pointing out obvious successes and that frustrates the usual hating crowd.

Nothing more to see really.

[Huggykaze]

It must be a really hard time for Blizzard haters these days with D3, Hearthstone, WOW as the ONLY survivor in the 1 million subscription market and the SC2 e-sports things.

And YEP: there IS NO MORE a subscription competition. Every old one LEFT the room and I am quite sure the "new" ones will follow within ONE year of release after seeing their servers dwindle like Rift (99>15 and SW TOR 223>17)...

Instead of your usual fighting WOW, you now face a 7 headed dragon which just keeps growing its franchises like hell.

If you didn't realise it yet: HS is HOTTER than hot these days.

I still remember last year when they introduced it in March: WTF a mediocre card game, what was Blizzard thinking ....

Have fun fighting them.

And HOTS is not even in beta.

You talk SXXt man. Just because of frustration. Have a life instead of fighting a game company which proved to conquer every segment they entered.

Well... D3 was utter shit, people played it because of franchise. Not big fan of HS, but seems to be running on WoW lore big time. Blizzard runs on its good opinions nowadays, although games they do are surely solid and don't go beneath certain level, they sometimes lack depth or ideas.

Truth be told, Blizzard went full commercial, no longer love for gaming - since Activision bought them (called that years ago). Sooner or later the company will go the way most of game industry went and release games like CoD or BF which are damn clones of predecessors...

- - - Updated - - -

You say because people are stupid.

I say because people are smart and see the differences between a Blizzard product and the "would be" ones.

Fact is, most people are stupid.

[BenBos]

Well... D3 was utter shit, people played it because of franchise. Not big fan of HS, but seems to be running on WoW lore big time. Blizzard runs on its good opinions nowadays, although games they do are surely solid and don't go beneath certain level, they sometimes lack depth or ideas.

Truth be told, Blizzard went full commercial, no longer love for gaming - since Activision bought them (called that years ago). Sooner or later the company will go the way most of game industry went and release games like CoD or BF which are damn clones of predecessors...

- - - Updated - - -



Fact is, most people are stupid.

That "shit" sold 15 million copies in 19 months and ... 5 million were added after its first 6 months. So far the believe it was "shit".

The only shit came from forum hate guys who feel accomplished when they can put out 0's on a user site.

Conclusion: your forum talk means shit to success.

Blizzard is the big bad guy for some.

I say, Lucky we have them or else we would be playing subpar products. You know the ones giving you a bland static loading screen instead of a mount or having no longer ANY server left after playing it for 4 years...

[Huehuecoyotl]

Answer the calls I make instead of inventing things: Blizzard is the only one left standing in the multi million subscription market.

Why ? According to you it is because people are stupid.

According to me: it is because that MMO competition sucked BIG time.


As stated, it is NO coincidence that Blizzard dominates every market segment they enter.

You say because people are stupid.

I say because people are smart and see the differences between a Blizzard product and the "would be" ones.

----

The end result is that you are frustrated and roam these forums to put out all the negativity you can find.

I am the one pointing out obvious successes and that frustrates the usual hating crowd.

Nothing more to see really.

Where was I saying anything about people being stupid? Or are you just having a conversation where you provide both sides of the discussion?

And how does questioning your ridiculous comments make me a hater? Or is that your default response when you can't provide an actual argument?

- - - Updated - - -

I say, Lucky we have them or else we would be playing subpar products. You know the ones giving you a bland static loading screen instead of a mount or having no longer ANY server left after playing it for 4 years...

Loading screens? Like the ones you see in WoW when you go from continent to continent? Or to any of the zoned content?

I love how loading screens are the doom of other games, yet WoW has just the PERFECT amount of them according to you.

[Giscoicus]

It must be a really hard time for Blizzard haters these days with D3, Hearthstone, WOW as the ONLY survivor in the 1 million subscription market and the SC2 e-sports things.

And YEP: there IS NO MORE a subscription competition. Every old one LEFT the room and I am quite sure the "new" ones will follow within ONE year of release after seeing their servers dwindle like Rift (99>15 and SW TOR 223>17)...

Instead of your usual fighting WOW, you now face a 7 headed dragon which just keeps growing its franchises like hell.

If you didn't realise it yet: HS is HOTTER than hot these days.

I still remember last year when they introduced it in March: WTF a mediocre card game, what was Blizzard thinking ....

Have fun fighting them.

And HOTS is not even in beta.

You talk SXXt man. Just because of frustration. Have a life instead of fighting a game company which proved to conquer every segment they entered.

But they don't conquer. WoW isn't very popular in Asian markets where MMOs are more popular. Not enough kawaii.
It's popular in the west because its a shell of the genre, and western gamers don't want to play a full MMO. The only reason other MMOs in the west pale in comparison is because those games don't move into the Asian market. Blizzard had the funds from previous games to go global, other games don't. The reason it is popular in the west is because te game was stripped down to appeal to those playing iOS games, and those players aren't interested in playing new MMOs that aren't all built around UI functions.

D3 was absolute crap, and has been since launch. They haven't addressed the bigger issues, slapped on some content they should have had at launch and pretend its all fixed now. Meanwhile, players flock to PoE because its a good ARPG.

Hearthstone as well is a very watered down game, that's only popular because it's so watered down. Again they sacrificed quality to appeal to more people. Angry birds is played by a lot, but it is still a crap game. Having a lot of users doesn't make a game good,it means the devs have good market analysts.

[Stir]

That "shit" sold 15 million copies in 19 months and ... 5 million were added after its first 6 months. So far the believe it was "shit".

The only shit came from forum hate guys who feel accomplished when they can put out 0's on a user site.

Conclusion: your forum talk means shit to success.

Blizzard is the big bad guy for some.

I say, Lucky we have them or else we would be playing subpar products. You know the ones giving you a bland static loading screen instead of a mount or having no longer ANY server left after playing it for 4 years...

Stop bullshitting.

Seriously. Just accept that WoW is still relatively big because it enjoys more loyalty. Not because it has higher quality. Your friends are on WoW, your guild is on WoW, your happy MMO moments are in WoW. Switching is simply tedious; you'd have to start all over again, you've got no friends or guildies there, no history together. No epic moments you enjoyed in that game. No high-level character you kitted and grew attached to.

SW:TOR is doing pretty well for itself with a joined FtP/Pref/Sub model. It's raking in the money, and has a lot of players. As far as player numbers go, it's pretty much as successful as WoW. Sure; it's not as competitive. It's a different game. But for many people, myself included, it offers a lot more than WoW.
Then there's other games, which also take a different spin on things. GW2 is pretty successful, and even though I don't think ESO will last long with a subscription fee, I do think it will end up being successful if they tweak.

Newer games generally run into the problem of not having any gamer loyalty. Starting a new MMO is a big investment for many people; 60 dollars for the box, then 15 more for the sub, and you don't even know you'll enjoy it. Before WoW, the MMO market was still pretty much open, and Everquest was losing its charm for many people. It was the right time for Blizzard, even if they didn't know it at the time. Now, however, it's much more tricky to succeed. Something Blizzard simply doesn't need to worry as much about, because they already have.

You make it seem like anyone who disagrees with you thinks that Blizzard is bad... And that's not true. WoW is a good game. Starcraft is amazing. Hearthstone is fun; it doesn't require much to get into, and there's a very low threshold; it does exactly as intended. Heroes of the Storm will do pretty well because of its team-xp and no-item policies, which makes levelling far less competitive in a team, and encourages good sportsmanship; in a world where MOBA-games have the worst communities, this is the perfect time to create one that doesn't cause instant hatred and competition within teams.

All of those things are great, design-wise.

But WoW's success is still not because it is the best. I'm not saying WoW is bad; not by a long shot. It's simply not the best.

[melodramocracy]

And YEP: there IS NO MORE a subscription competition. Every old one LEFT the room

This is absolutely false, but you keep parroting it.

Just another day reading a BenBos post, I suspect.

[Giscoicus]

That "shit" sold 15 million copies in 19 months and ... 5 million were added after its first 6 months. So far the believe it was "shit".

The only shit came from forum hate guys who feel accomplished when they can put out 0's on a user site.

Conclusion: your forum talk means shit to success.

Blizzard is the big bad guy for some.

I say, Lucky we have them or else we would be playing subpar products. You know the ones giving you a bland static loading screen instead of a mount or having no longer ANY server left after playing it for 4 years...

Right, and after a hugely botched launch and awful game play, the number of people playing Diablo plummeted. By you logic, GW2 is still hugely popular because of how many copies it sold. It's not, because people quit later. Diablo 3 was awful and the number of players is nowhere near the number of people who bought the game. He'll Blizzard remove content that even at launch, the website claimed was there.

[Steampunk]

Anyone in an entertainment business can tell you it's not the model you use, but the timing, presentation and "hole" you fill in a market.

WoW filled a growing demand and struck gold, before the fever pitch hit, that turned our fun lil niche set of games, into it's own genre.

[Deadite]

It must be a really hard time for Blizzard haters these days

Why would anyone hate a company that makes video games? Video games aren't important. They are what you use when you haven't got anything important to do.

[LilSaihah]

You neglected to mention that the PVP in SW:TOR is leagues beyond WoW in balance, variety and overall enjoyability.

There's also SPAAAAAACE battles.

Ends up being pet battles vs SPAAAAAAACE battles I guess. Pet battles are fun but space battles are... Well, they're in SPACE.

space

[Kazgrel]

This thread...soooo entertaining. Someone pass the popcorn.

[Blur4stuff]

there's many millions of gamers that are willing to pay a subscription. they just need a good reason. right now WoW has more good reasons than others for more people.

if another company wants to grab that kind of success they shouldn't make a typical mmo. it shouldn't play like WoW or anything similar. as long as it has regular updates people will keep paying.

[Jtbrig7390]

As stated, it is NO coincidence that Blizzard dominates every market segment they enter.

I got a question for you.

How come WoW is about to go 1 year without content and yet a smaller MMO "GW2" can put out new content every 2-3 weeks with full voice overs and a decent trailer.

No one is blind yes WoW sits as the number 1 sub MMO but thats like saying your are the most strong person in a room by yourself. It dose not matter.

Blizzard dose not dominate every maket its in and you really need to stop white knighting blizzard. They failed in the ARPG market with D3 and while yes the game did sell tons of copys that dose not make it a good game.

D3 sold on name alone.

I bet you PoE has made more money then D3 has just by selling cosmetic items. PoE is a all around better game then D3. I enjoyed my time in D3 but it is a sub par ARPG and there is many out there better then it.

But that is my Opinion like your Opinion is that blizzard is the best.

Just remember Opinion dose not mean fact.