If the healer won't heal, is it appropriate as the tank to leave the group?

[Deleted]

today, I picked up my lvl 40 brewmaster monk again after reading the starter brewmaster guide. I queued for randoms and instantly joined a new group for Dire Maul East. Composition was shaman/warrior/rogue/hunter and me as monk tank. After a few trash packs, I noticed I was getting no heals and saw mobs fly around from thunderstorm. I had to keep myself alive, which isn't something I don't quite want to try in my first run. I got 3 healing surges in total, and I did over 4 times his healing.

I asked the shaman why he wasn't healing and he said "I'm not good and I'm AFK". I can get the first one, but the second part was a blatant lie because I saw him on skada the entire time dealing damage (current fight).

I didn't want to deal with the hassle of kicking him, so I just said "if you can't be bothered to heal, I can't be bothered to tank" and left them. I don't understand this. If you don't want to heal, then don't queue as healer. I don't care that you won't get an instant queue. In a group, you do your role or you don't join at all. I left LFR groups on my healers because I didn't feel confident enough healing. I left groups as a tank because I kept dying and was a liability. If you're not going to heal, then don't join as healer.

I realize there could have been better options. I could just have kicked him, but with the rules on kicking and as trigger happy as people are in leveling dungeons, that would have been tricky. I could have seen it as practice, but I wasn't comfortable with having such a trial by fire on my first run. Was leaving one of the better options?

[Lightwysh]

Better to leave and not have to worry about the bullshit. Eat the deserter debuff if you get it and move on.

[Squirl]

Did you die? It's really common for hybrids to just heal as a DPS spec so they can contribute to actually killing things and make the run faster. Tanks take little-to-no damage anyways, so any healer is basically just there for backup anyways. You could even run 5 DPS with 1 hybrid healer and be perfectly fine.

If you died, yeah that guy is a dick. If he was throwing you heals when you needed them (and it sounds like he was), he was being smart. Queuing heals as a hybrid means faster queues, faster clears, and no real danger. In that case, you overreacted just because the group didn't fit the "meta".

[marklar]

well based on his answer (i'm AFK), i would have asked the group to either kick the healer or kick me. that way even if they choose you, you don't get the deserter debuff.

[Kazgrel]

Just kick him if he wants a free ride. Being he dpsed the whole time, if no one was in danger of dying, keep on trucking.

[Deleted]

If he, as the designated healer, has time to DPS: pull more. If he still doesn't heal (at all) and someone dies, kick him.
But yes...of course you can leave as well. It's really up to you, don't worry about it.

[Deleted]

I probably wouldn't have done like you, but I do think it is the most appropriate way to handle a situation like that.
Just move on, it was a good decision if you didn't feel confident doing it without a healer (which is very understandable with the amount of spike damage and having to wait for chi wave cooldown and such).

[nightfalls]

Your loss for leaving...?

[Deleted]

I completely agree with you OP, I would have left aswell if that happened or would have kicked the healer. I find it really annoying when people do this and it is not nice/fair on the rest of the group. I can understand it if people don't know how to heal or tank and they ask for advice or patience, but to just not heal becauseyou can't be bothered is just aweful.

[Lovestar]

As a tank there's nothing wrong with doing a lot of self-healing, that's what you're there for with AM in place. Especially if you're keeping yourself up successfully in DM at 40, that's actually encouraging and great practice.

Leveling dungeons aren't a good place to be stubborn because they're rarely dangerous and defined class roles are usually unimportant; as long as everyone's clearing the run and getting good XP, it's pretty much fine.

If you're constantly dropping down to Desperate Measures point (which you'll get at 45), or actually dying on dangerous packs, then you probably have a right to be annoyed. However, even though it's stressful, bad groups can teach you a lot (for example, Dizzy-kiting to survive until Expel recharges).

Basically, if you just want to farm XP and not deal with the hassle, sure, leave groups that put too much on you. If you're interested in practicing, see how far you can go with bad groups. If the healer is "cheating", but keeping you alive through each pull as needed, then just let it be.

As a final point, remember that healer DPS in leveling dungeons can be insane, sometimes outpacing 'real' DPS depending on gear disparities. If they aren't keeping you at 100% health but things are dying faster, it mostly washes out.

[Radio]

As a levelling brewmaster you can generally solo the instance as it is, and if you have hierlooms it turns into a total joke. Get used to contributing a huge majority of your own heals, as it doesn't change even when going into heroic raids.

[Deleted]

The damage in instances ramps up as you get closer to 60. Early on there's little need for proper specs, and with a real tank there'll be nothing to heal so healers tend to dps a lot. As you get to the middle levels, the mobs start doing more damage. Around lvl 50-60 mobs do actual damage. I've been one shotted by a trash mob as a warlock with soul link in LBRS for example, which would never happen in the earlier instances. It's a good design in a way, because it lets lower level players who are less experienced get away with more.

Self-healing and active mitigation are very big parts of tanking today, so it's not a bad thing to be learning how to keep yourself alive.

[roahn the warlock]

i leveled my healer priest without ever casting a healing spell, atonement did enough. and most times I was top dps.

Never complain unless you die at most twice

[Lovestar]

i leveled my healer priest without ever casting a healing spell, atonement did enough. and most times I was top dps.

I have fond memories of the incredibly angry/bewildered Hunters and Mages and Rogues & other DPS who ran Recount when I leveled my Priest, as I out-DPS'd them even during huge AoE packs just by casting Smite.

Full looms + near-BiS BoEs/dungeon drops in every slot + full BiS enchants + full WOTLK gems in every TBC+ gem slot + flask + food + DPS glyphs (Cata) + Cata greens 77+ ... it was so utterly stupidly unnecessary, but it was also 85 levels of glorious Smite of Doom.

Having to actually learn to heal again for HoT 5-mans was disorienting. "What...? I cast... PW:S? And... Penance... the tank? D:"

Then there was my Monk Fistweaving through content in MoP blues providing iLevel 450 at level 80... "Tank dropped group? That's okay, I'm your healer, tank, and DPS today."

[Mormolyce]

Eh, if people are refusing to play then it's GG.

[Museigen]

If it was making you struggle to keep yourself alive, then yeah it was a problem. If you were still pretty easily burning through the dungeon then the healer dpsing actually makes it go faster thanks to the added dps. I haven't leveled a char in awhile but I remember something similar on my prot paladin where I was spending holy power / mana on healing dps who were standing in shit while the healer hopped around not even dpsing.

I asked the healer to either heal or at least dps since I could heal the group if necessary and got the typical, "did ne1 die? no." Yup, because the prot paladin healed them. The dps got upset I asked their friend to do more than stand there and said just because I have BoA gear doesn't mean I get to be an ass. Apparently asking the healer to do something is an asshole move, he has 0 damage done and single digit percent of total healing by the time we got the final boss.

Sometimes there's not much you can do but watch them die then solo the last boss becaus BoA + prot = LoL.

[Axelond]

At least in 90 dungeons it's standard with 1 tank+4 dps. No real reason to ever bring a healer to a dungeon unless your tank is shite or you are undergeared. Tank damage should be covered by the tank himself and the minimal group damage can be hybrid healed. More dps=faster run=more xp

Also in low levels your spec wont even matter so just go and tell him to off heal if group is dieing.

You gotta understand how boring healing is when doing outgeared content. Basically it's like trying to dps a paladin with 90% uptime on divine shield...

[Jawless Jones]

Dire maul is one of the few classic instances where it can be pretty stupid not to have a proper healer

all of the instances have high mob count, all of them patrolling mobs, all of them have some mobs/bosses who weren't properly scaled down in cata (DM North especially)

[Sliippy]

I think it really is a shame to have to deal with people like that. And the fact that they've made removing troublesome players like that so difficult really diminishes people's enjoyment. I'd have probably done what you did and left if kicking him wasn't an option. The annoying thing is at that level no matter what avenue you choose it's going to make things take a lot longer than it should.

[Khorm]

I am so sick of DPS playing their tank alts and whining like a DPS.

Would you leave if a Disc Priest or a MW Monk were putting out DPS? Ele shamans are recognized as the No. 1 hybrid in the game with DPS/Heals and can easily DPS and heal a level 40 dungeon.