Warlock WoD Beta test - General chat

[Durantye]

Fuck, just remove KJC and replace it in the talent tree with Fel Flame at this point.

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You and the devs seem to be in agreement on that one. I sooo wanted to hang up Destruction and play Affliction in this expansion. That just ain't gonna happen though.

Ha but affliction is incredibly viable in 5.4 why don't you play it now?

[iriecolorado]

Ha but affliction is incredibly viable in 5.4 why don't you play it now?

Because I stopped raiding about four months ago after I became obscenely bored with SoO.

[Deleted]

If only we could revert back to Cataclysm affliction playstyle and call it a day. it seemed so much more fluid.

if they did that, then i would honest to god, never play afflic again, was so craptastic i never bothered with it.

[Grizelda]

Health Funnel is still in the game. Demonology also still has the instant summon while in metamorphosis.

Hmmm. You're right. Notes say it's just the soulburn part that's gone. I thought otherwise.

But FoX isn't a demonology ability.

Destro haters step off. I don't think anyone is happy it's become arcane mage simple. It wasn't always that way.

[Deleted]

Fuck, just remove KJC and replace it in the talent tree with Fel Flame at this point.

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either way, they need to give us fel flame back, dont really care what they do with KJC at this point.

You and the devs seem to be in agreement on that one. I sooo wanted to hang up Destruction and play Affliction in this expansion. That just ain't gonna happen though.

well they certainly need to do something about afflic, at this point in time it feels pretty much dead to me, the fact that they nerf our shard generation by 50-75% and then double or triple our shard usage is prolly not the way to go. soul swap having charges would have been so much more intuitive to me but htey seem adamant on their stance that soul swap is OP, eventho ssnapshotting is gone which was the only thing that made soul swap OP on live.

[Netherspark]

Hmmm. You're right. Notes say it's just the soulburn part that's gone. I thought otherwise.

But FoX isn't a demonology ability.

Destro haters step off. I don't think anyone is happy it's become arcane mage simple. It wasn't always that way.

Health Funnel is gone for Destuction, it's still available for Demo & Affliction.

[Roujeaux]

They just removed the snapshot from moon/starfire to allow Moonkin to spam them for movement, I am really really struggling now to see what the case is against Fel Flame.

At this point? Seems like pure stubbornness.

[xskarma]

Since apparently big changes to the classes are now pretty much done, I think it's time to make up the balance and see what we will actually be playing in WoD. My personal opinion (feel free to add yours):

Tbh, I don't think Warlocks are being ignored just for the sake of being ignored, I think Blizzard just feels (rightly to an extent) that you can go from playing Mists Warlock to WoD Warlock pretty much without dropping a beat.

Except Affliction then, cause with the cost change of Soul Swap that spec is now completely altered from the way it works on live. Soul Swap is now a trap spell that should mostly just be ignored cause the benefits need pretty much mathematical research to see if it's a benefit in a situation or not. It will hinder the class for returning and new players cause they'll see Soul Swap and want to use it, not knowing that Blizzard was kind enough to give us a spell that we should actively avoid using even in it's niche cause it will in most cases be a negligable benefit, with the risk of actually being a DPS loss.

Furthermore with Snapshotting gone the spec has changed it's focal point from dots being not a benefit, but a burden, something bland that needs to be maintained instead of the thing the spec revolves around. Right now the spec does not revolve around dots, but around Haunt, and how well you can use Haunt windows with Drain Soul. That's not what this spec used to be about, and I don't like that this is what the spec has become.

Right now, and in the past, when you get a proc up, you put up strong dots, and you feel like a dot spec. In WoD when you get a proc, your attention goes to putting up Haunt and using Drain Soul. That does not make me feel like a dot spec and for the first time since starting to play Warlock I'm considering dropping Affliction as 1 of my 2 specs, it's lost THAT much fun to me. Dots should be the focus of the spec, not the annoying stuff that you just need to maintain so you can cause the damage with other spells.


Destruction has some REALLY stupid stuff going on. Healthfunnel gone without ANY explanation. I'm seriously beginning to suspect the explanation for it is that Destro has such superior healing capability that we are expected to just have our pet die, take a beating while resummoning and then heal up again. It's the only slightly sane reason I've been able to think up why they'd take away our ONLY way of healing our pets as Warlocks.

There's alos the change to Shadowburn mana return that means that in extended executes we will run out of mana and will be forced to either cast Chaosbolt or sit there not doing anything, a change that was absolutely not needed, with as the only benefit a marginally more simple tooltip.

For the rest the spec pretty much is unchanged, IF you ignore the elephant in the room that is Destro mobility, so I expect it to be mostly as effective in most niches as it is in Mists. Depending on tuning (looking at you GoSac) the spec might again be too dominant in both single target and AoE. I suspect that with gear being more broadly usuable and specs stat interests beign more split up with attunements, that gearing for 2 specs will be a LOT harder, meaning that the best allround spec will probably be the go to option for most people.


Lastly Demo. Little has changed about the spec, it still lacks a niche since Destro took it's AoE niche, still has awkward melee range AoE, but at least it now has a working option in Grimoire of Synergy instead of Sacrifice. It is basically the spec I have my hopes riding on. It's got the most interesting spec mechanics and subtleties, it works in both singletarget and AoE, though 2 target cleave depends on if you can hit both targets with HoG and Pet AoE, it has probably the best options for mobility with 2 instant dots, Life tap, Hand of Guldan, Metamorphosis ToC and Demonic Leap.

What Demo needs is decent tuning. If it is at least allowed to be ahead single target the dynamics between the specs become more even. Destro will be AoE, Affliction multidotting, Demo singletarget. If it loses the single target battle, then the spec becomes a fun second spec to do dailies in, cause if it lacks single target there is no way it will beat Affliction in mutlidotting or Destro in AoE since both those specs use their single target abilities to be strong in their niches. On the other hand, even if Demo is strong single target it won't be able to compete with either of the other specs in their niche, unless there are unexpectedly big tuning mistakes.



TL;DR: Affliction is bland and I hope it gets a Soul Swap change to patch 4.3 (no shard cost, 25 second cooldown) to save at least that aspect. Destro has worrying details that should be fixed but probably won't be (mainly mobility), but looks okay. Demo is my knight in shining armour that I hope will make WoD as fun to play as Mists was. It has the mobility, the interesting mechanics, and the spec flavour to make it happen, all it needs is proper tuning.

So, again, that's my opinion, feel free to share yours. (and keep in mind that Blizzard reads these forums and takes factual feedback on how things play and feel seriously.)

[login]

to say blizzard is ignoring warlocks is using the wrong term. I feel like they're being really stubborn about changing anything(even though they said they're open to ideas) and seem to be trying to tell everyone, not just warlocks, what they like instead of listening to what the actual player likes. although I do understand that it's hard to find that medium when you have to consider class balance.

Still not sure why they refuse to bring back fel flame, like people have said before at this point it seems like stubbornness and trying to set a precedent about casting while moving. The amount of spells that have been cut for the sake of fixing button bloat is kinda unneeded for at least the warlock class. button bloat was never really an issue with the class or at least i never really heard anyone complain about it.

What concerns me the most is the fact that many of the talents/perks have slight problems with working with each other, for example improved demons and grim. of sac. don't seem like they're going to work together and it looks like if you choose that talent you lose out on a perk. To me that's bad design and this problem isn't just with warlocks specifically. There seems to be a decent amount of things overlooked when it comes to the synergy of perks and talents for all classes and i doubt they'll all get fixed

[DesireKT]

TBH I think not enough of you crying are taking the time or the right steps to get your info or concerns put out in a proper way and places like the theorycraft thread. Almost everything I've posted about or asked to post in that thread regarding the class has been answered yet I find almost no other inquires throughout the thread besides a couple (which from what I remember were answered as well).

Put something new and meaningful together to be posted and ask for people to help you post if you can't. Crying here because nothings is happening isn't much help to anyone and that's honestly 95% of what I've seen in the last 2 weeks.

[iriecolorado]

TBH I think not enough of you crying are taking the time or the right steps to get your info or concerns put out in a proper way and places like the theorycraft thread. Almost everything I've posted about or asked to post in that thread regarding the class has been answered yet I find almost no other inquires throughout the thread besides a couple (which from what I remember were answered as well).

Put something new and meaningful together to be posted and ask for people to help you post if you can't. Crying here because nothings is happening isn't much help to anyone and that's honestly 95% of what I've seen in the last 2 weeks.

"Crying" about "crying." How avant garde. I love how discussing the state of Warlocks in the "Warlock WoD Beta test - General chat" is somehow "crying."

[DesireKT]

Posting something to foster a meaningful push to try and get people to do something about their concerns rather than complain is not crying. I could care less how much you cry just don't expect things to get changed if you don't post meaningful information/concerns and data to back it up. Take it how you will there's a lot more people could be doing to try and get responses from the devs and it's just not happening.

[login]

Posting something to foster a meaningful push to try and get people to do something about their concerns rather than complain is not crying. I could care less how much you cry just don't expect things to get changed if you don't post meaningful information/concerns and data to back it up. Take it how you will there's a lot more people could be doing to try and get responses from the devs and it's just not happening.

you talk about posting something meaningful yet instead of doing that you just shake your finger at the people posting their concerns over the class and say they're just crying. Did it ever occur to you that many of these people already have gone through the proper channels to give detailed feedback and nothing has changed? I myself have posted my concerns over the class in general forum because i don't have beta access and I've tweeted the devs about issues I've seen with feedback and questions. Guess what doing that doesn't always change anything that is one of the many issues these people are posting about not getting any dev feedback.

[DesireKT]

A VAST majority of the Dev Class Feedback is coming through one thread and one person via Twitter. If you don't make the effort to get factual information put into that thread (IE asking for someone to post) don't expect a response anytime soon. I had threads in both live and beta class forums before I got access and wasn't until I started posting factual information and inquiries in the thread that's its intended for did I start getting answers.

Stop getting bent and ask for help to get your information in the right place.

[iriecolorado]

Posting something to foster a meaningful push to try and get people to do something about their concerns rather than complain is not crying. I could care less how much you cry just don't expect things to get changed if you don't post meaningful information/concerns and data to back it up. Take it how you will there's a lot more people could be doing to try and get responses from the devs and it's just not happening.

You mean like submitting timely and relevant beta feedback through the proper channels, for over a month, like I have been? This is a place for discussion. That's what we're doing, we're discussing. One can discuss here AND give feedback in the proper channels. Shocking, right? Why you assume that everybody in here that's also in the beta isn't giving feedback and you're the only one communicating to Blizzard is beyond me. It's an asinine and idiotic assumption.

[bio347]

Guess what doing that doesn't always change anything

Well, that's how it works, yes. There's this weird assumption that because you gave feedback, you are entitled to see some sort of change, or get some sort of response. You're not.

[login]

A VAST majority of the Dev Class Feedback is coming through one thread and one person via Twitter. If you don't make the effort to get factual information put into that thread (IE asking for someone to post) don't expect a response anytime soon. I had threads in both live and beta class forums before I got access and wasn't until I started posting factual information and inquiries in the thread that's its intended for did I start getting answers.

Stop getting bent and ask for help to get your information in the right place.

so you imply people are not giving good class feedback and post it in a very rude way by saying, "you're all crying too much and not doing anything to change that" instead just saying, "guys keep giving feedback or they'll never hear us". what you did was insult people with no idea of what these people are posting in the wow forums, in the beta, and in twitter and expect to what? have people say thank you for the rude post? You are not the only one who is giving feedback, you also have no idea how much feedback anyone here has given, yet you still make a bold statement as stop crying? If you don't want people to "get bent" about what you post you should really try being nicer or at least less rude to your fellow forum posters

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Well, that's how it works, yes. There's this weird assumption that because you gave feedback, you are entitled to see some sort of change, or get some sort of response. You're not.

i never implied that we're entitled to change based on feedback, i am just trying to explain to another poster that even though you give good feedback it doesn't always end up changing anything don't know why you think I'm feel i'm entitled to anything.

[iriecolorado]

I had threads in both live and beta class forums before I got access and wasn't until I started posting factual information and inquiries in the thread that's its intended for did I start getting answers.

Starting threads in the beta forums without a beta flagged account. Amazing, considering it doesn't work like that. So either you're some magician, or you're breaking the ToS using somebody else's account, or you're just a liar.

I'm sure they love beta feedback from somebody that didn't have beta access. Immensely helpful.

[DesireKT]

Twitter is in by no way or means the proper place for feedback. If you get a response there feel lucky. I just rechecked the Theorycraft thread and every warlock question with meaningful information was responded to or a change was brought about to the game in some way because of it. Which is exactly what my post said about getting information in the correct place.

Sure you may be posting useful information in places they read and its getting to them but most people posting here are wanting answers and not doing anything to post information in the proper thread. The Theorycrafting thread is loaded with post after post after post from other classes with factual informative posts and they get responses. Warlock posts aren't there. Plain and simple. I'm sorry if you feel like I'm insulting people but it's blatantly obvious posts you want answers to aren't being put in the right place

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Starting threads in the beta forums without a beta flagged account. Amazing, considering it doesn't work like that. So either you're some magician, or you're breaking the ToS using somebody else's account, or you're just a liar.

I'm sure they love beta feedback from somebody that didn't have beta access. Immensely helpful.

Excuse my grammatical misplacement... Sheesh

"I had threads in both live, before I got access, and beta class forums and it wasn't until I started posting factual information and inquiries in the thread that it's intended for did I start getting answers."

[iriecolorado]

Twitter is in by no way or means the proper place for feedback. If you get a response there feel lucky. I just rechecked the Theorycraft thread and every warlock question with meaningful information was responded to or a change was brought about to the game in some way because of it. Which is exactly what my post said about getting information in the correct place.

Sure you may be posting useful information in places they read and its getting to them but most people posting here are wanting answers and not doing anything to post information in the proper thread. The Theorycrafting thread is loaded with post after post after post from other classes with factual informative posts and they get responses. Warlock posts aren't there. Plain and simple. I'm sorry if you feel like I'm insulting people but it's blatantly obvious posts you want answers to aren't being put in the right place

The "Theorycrafting Thread" isn't the end-all, be-all of their feedback.

This thread is for:
Asking for details about how a gameplay mechanic works, so that you can simulate/model it better.
Discussing how to best model/simulate a rotation/spell/whatever.
Numbers! Math! Logic! Spreadsheets! Code! Statistics!
Posting results of theorycraft.


READ THIS! This thread is NOT for:
Giving feedback on how a rotation feels.
Asking if we’re concerned that this spec/rotation/spell/whatever is too weak.
Discussing design philosophy.
Wishlisting.

Per their post, this isn't about class feedback, this is about passing on simcraft and modeling information to help build better public simulation tools. They're not looking for class feedback here. They aren't changing classes because of the feedback here. This is purely to help with simcraft and encounter modeling, just like the third paragraph of the first post reads.

I'm not giving feedback in this particular thread because they don't want it! They're specifically asking us not to give class feedback here! And here you are complaining that we're not giving them enough class feedback in a forum they specifically asked us not to give class feedback in. FFS.