WoD Death Knight Changes

[Uspoonybard]

400 rating points is not a lot, even with the stats squished.

Itemlvl 630, Heroic dungeon blue 2H, 118 haste rating
http://wod.wowhead.com/item=110046&bonus=524

Itemlvl 685, Mythic T17 raid epic 2H, 230 haste rating
http://wod.wowhead.com/item=113953&bonus=567

So in 6.0 as a new 100, a single heroic dungeon weapon is 1/4 of that cap. And a mythic raid drop from the very first tier is half of it. Remember these numbers are increased by 10% from attunement, too. This is of course only a single slot. We'll hit 400 haste rating in leveling greens.

At that point Haste is devalued, retaining the high wait times I hate so much. Remember all those parses at 40% wait time in 660 gear are with every piece of haste gear and haste enchants we can get. But we'll be actively trying to avoid haste. Crit is already very low value due to Killing Machine. Mastery remains very low value for 2H frost due to Obliterate dealing physical damage. And thus the subspec is left with two valuable stats; Multistrike and Versatility.

But wait, Multistrike is very inexpensive in rating per %, so it will diminish quickly in later tiers. And then we're left with just Versatility. The end result will be a migration to DW frost, because it makes much better use of Mastery on gear. This is what happens when stats aren't balanced.

The devs hate the word, but this actually is a classic scaling issue.

You're misinterpreting the data a little. At those levels versatility does over take haste, but more so here's what the stat weights will look like for the 2h Frost profile that was simmed at 695ilvl (Mythic Foundry): MS > ~400 haste > Versatility > More Haste > Mastery > Crit. I definitely agree that scaling is all jacked up here, but haste isn't gone for good.

[Schizoide]

I don't see where my interepretation differs from yours, can you elaborate?

I didn't say we wouldn't have any haste. Even with reforging, that would be impossible. Just that we won't stack/enchant/gem for it.

[Faenlyn]

I don't see where my interepretation differs from yours, can you elaborate?

I didn't say we wouldn't have any haste. Even with reforging, that would be impossible. Just that we won't stack/enchant/gem for it.

He is challenging your logic train of "At that point Haste is devalued --> And thus the subspec is left with two valuable stats; Multistrike and Versatility --> But wait, Multistrike is very inexpensive so it will diminish quickly --> And then we're left with just Versatility"

He is saying Haste remains valuable after 400, it's just that Versatility will overtake it. But that Versatility overtakes it is not a sequitur to Haste is devalued to the point that only Versatility remains useful. Versatility overtakes it but both remain valuable.

[Schizoide]

I said it was de-valued, not non-valued. All stats have some value, there's no hard cap like hit/expertise, but haste will not be the secondary stat we gear for.

That causes all sorts of other problems, most notably that 2H frost's horrible downtime won't drop nearly as quickly in later tiers as anticipated.

[Faenlyn]

I said it was de-valued, not non-valued. All stats have some value, there's no hard cap like hit/expertise, but haste will not be the secondary stat we gear for.

That causes all sorts of other problems, most notably that 2H frost's horrible downtime won't drop nearly as quickly in later tiers as anticipated.

You started your statement with haste is de- valued. But concluded with "And then we're left with just Versatility" Just versality. That's exactly the fallacy that was being challenged. Transforming de-valued in the start of the paragraph to non valued at the end with your statement on "just" versatility remaining valued. That's not even challenging your statement on the point of MS which still remains top dog despite your dismissal of it

[Schizoide]

That is not what I meant, but I can see why you read it that way.

Multistrike will quickly diminish. Not in 6.0, but later on. This will happen to everybody who has it as their main secondary stat, because it's so cheap.

[Deleted]

at least they change the wording on killing machine every build

[Skarssen]

at least they change the wording on killing machine every build

Hey hey now, this is important stuff here! Its not some trivial issue like removing information about the effects of certain spells; that sort of stuff belongs on 3rd party websites. But for fucks sake, we don't want anyone getting confused on whether or not KM increases crtiical strike chance of your next FS/OB by 100% or whether it guarantees a critical strike on your next FS/OB. How are people supposed to play the game with that sort of ambiguity?!?

[Deleted]

maybe they could also totally hide killing machine

[blasterion]

Meh Stamina nerfs not that big a deal I guess, I could always just stack crit/parry

On another note what's the damage of Scourge Strike vs Blood Boil? what if we used death runes on Blood Boil for Festersimple? Since Icy Touch returns Frost Runes as Death Runes, but Death Runes used on Blood Boil return also as death runes.

[Kraeth]

maybe they could also totally hide killing machine

I think they should make it flashier. Y'know, so we know our crit is being wasted.

On a more serious point, versatility being so, so high is very alarming. 2h is being carried by the massive Obliterates, so I can see mastery gaining some weight if it's nerfed. But at the same time Versatility might get stronger as well.

[Schizoide]

All tank health dropped this patch, part of a resolve/tank rebalancing effort Celestalon tweeted about.

[Rothulean1]

Except warriors.

[Shiira]

Maybe if blizzard keep rewording killing machine they'll accidentally change it to something that doesn't screw us over.

[Schizoide]

Unwavering sentinel was already at 15% stamina.

[blasterion]

I think they should make it flashier. Y'know, so we know our crit is being wasted.

On a more serious point, versatility being so, so high is very alarming. 2h is being carried by the massive Obliterates, so I can see mastery gaining some weight if it's nerfed. But at the same time Versatility might get stronger as well.

They can make a big Obliterate Icon Flash across the screen saying your crit ratings are going to waste when KM procs

[Beefkow]

On another note what's the damage of Scourge Strike vs Blood Boil?

Why..... Why....!?

Compare a single target ability to an aoe ability, that just pisses me off just make SS viable FFS.

[Gemini Soul]

Except warriors.

In other words Warriors got buffed

- - - Updated - - -

Why..... Why....!?

Compare a single target ability to an aoe ability, that just pisses me off just make SS viable FFS.

Need a target cap where Death spent on a BB does more than a SS

[Maxweii]

In other words Warriors got buffed

No in other words all tanks were brought to close to what Blizz wants them balanced around

[Deleted]

another build, still not enough changes