WoD Death Knight Changes

[Deleted]

except you cant use it while silenced, which rarely happens in pve.

Also, silences are being reduced in PvP. On the plus side, DC ignores armor.

[Challenge]

No one should be blood in pvp anyway so that doesnt matter.

Situations like challenge mode jade temple would be problematic with only death coil, lots of silences from the adds. But thats the only one i can really think of.

[damescool]

What I find more amazing is that 5% of frost dks take Roiling Blood.

lol, this is amazing

[roahn the warlock]

You mean like... what exactly? Simply ignore the fact that RS sucks compared to DC? Embrace the genericness of RS for the sake of preventing change?
Please tell me how RS is preferable to DC, maybe I'm missing something obvious here.

How about instead of having rune strike, or death coil. They have something more blood related.

Death coil will create a secondary blood shield around the Dk. So, wouldn't it make more sense to have an ability that draws say, an orb of blood, from the target to the deathknight. Or a slash, something like the warlock demon cleave.

That, is thinking outside of the box

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Secret meta that only roahn and his band of hardcore death knights know about.

To take rolling blood on any fight with minimal adds, is ridiculous. Though, when I do dungeons, yeah my Dk prolly has rolling blood on too. It's a talent tree of options for a reason. If, say you have such a gross mismatch between tier options, that doesn't mean you remove it, that's a problem with the tier tree. Oh hey, this thing here is broken. Wanna fix it? Nah remove it

Oh, and just because something is Op for one patch, or one part of a patch. That doesn't make it the main thing, for the entire patch/ xpack. For christ's sake

Now, when deathknights who are clearing heroic mode every night, in one night. And most are even going heavy avoidance and even crit because they can clear faster. Hardly have to worry about getting out extra death strikes. Use your noggin

Plague Leech is the best choice in terms of single-target fights, providing a substantial improvement to your tanking performance.

[Deleted]

How about instead of having rune strike, or death coil. They have something more blood related.

Death coil will create a secondary blood shield around the Dk. So, wouldn't it make more sense to have an ability that draws say, an orb of blood, from the target to the deathknight. Or a slash, something like the warlock demon cleave.

That, is thinking outside of the box

1) DC won't create a rune shield anymore, they scrapped that idea. instead it increases your health by 5%.
2) Why would you prefer something completely unrelated to the class (blood dks do NOT wield blood magic) instead of a dk core ability?
3) How would that be different than DC? just a different visual

To take rolling blood on any fight with minimal adds, is ridiculous. Though, when I do dungeons, yeah my Dk prolly has rolling blood on too. It's a talent tree of options for a reason. If, say you have such a gross mismatch between tier options, that doesn't mean you remove it, that's a problem with the tier tree. Oh hey, this thing here is broken. Wanna fix it? Nah remove it

Oh, and just because something is Op for one patch, or one part of a patch. That doesn't make it the main thing, for the entire patch/ xpack. For christ's sake

Now, when deathknights who are clearing heroic mode every night, in one night. And most are even going heavy avoidance and even crit because they can clear faster. Hardly have to worry about getting out extra death strikes. Use your noggin

Plague Leech is the best choice in terms of single-target fights, providing a substantial improvement to your tanking performance.

"I picked this talent that buffs an ability I don't use, because if it is a talent choice that automatically means it must be valuable to me"
Unfortunately that isn't true. RB is, no matter how you look at it, garbage for frost dks.
And it's not getting removed, it's becoming baseline for all dks.

RB wasn't OP for blood/uh because of its tuning. Because there was nothing that could be tuned, it was OP because of its mechanic, which is extremely valuable. No matter how you tune the damage of the abilities, RB would still flat out win.

I can only guess what you meant by that last part, because frankly the first sentence doesn't make any sense.
It seems you are talking about blood dks, which is weird because the coment you are responding to is about frost dks.
You are pointing out that PL is less valuable to blood dks than roiling blood, because you are already gcd-locked. Which nobody disagrees with? Why point that out? In a response to a comment about frost dks?

And in the very next sentence you continue babbling that PL is the best choice for blood on ST. Which you just said makes no sense.

[roahn the warlock]

1) DC won't create a rune shield anymore, they scrapped that idea. instead it increases your health by 5%.
2) Why would you prefer something completely unrelated to the class (blood dks do NOT wield blood magic) instead of a dk core ability?
3) How would that be different than DC? just a different visual



"I picked this talent that buffs an ability I don't use, because if it is a talent choice that automatically means it must be valuable to me"
Unfortunately that isn't true. RB is, no matter how you look at it, garbage for frost dks.
And it's not getting removed, it's becoming baseline for all dks.

RB wasn't OP for blood/uh because of its tuning. Because there was none, it was OP because of its mechanic, which is extremely valuable. No matter how you tune the damage of the abilities, RB would still flat out win.

I can only guess what you meant by that last part, because frankly the first sentence doesn't make any sense.
It seems you are talking about blood dks, which is weird because the coment you are responding to is about frost dks.
You are pointing out that PL is less valuable to blood dks than roiling blood, because you are already gcd-locked. Which nobody disagrees with? Why point that out? In a response to a comment about frost dks?

Well then that's kind of a stupid name for them, isn't it... Should they be called the shield that isn;t called blood shield, and the blood worms that dont release blood, in the unholy spec that really isn't unholy but we couldn't think of another name

From the wing in the ICC that has vampires in it, that aren;t vampires, but use blood magic... that isn't blood magic because apparently deathknights don't weild blood magic.

Oh wait, no, that's stupid

furthermore, how does shooting an unholy bolt at someone heal you? Exactly?

It's really as simple as Deathknights had the most complex tanking rotation and system in the game. It's being simplified to something more on the druid level.

Paladins do seem like they don't have too much removed though

[Kraeth]

RB is 100% useless for frost, no doubt about it. PL is mostly useless for UH.

Blood picking PL is mostly ehhhhh. There are really no significant gains from it since we're mostly gcd-capped due to SoB and it takes 2 globals to PL and Outbreak to refresh diseases, which is pointless since again, gcd-capped. Not sure why you think PL is so good for blood.

Edit: reading earlier replies, do you believe they're removing RB? Which they're not. They're making it baseline with pestilence.

[Challenge]

To take rolling blood on any fight with minimal adds, is ridiculous. Though, when I do dungeons, yeah my Dk prolly has rolling blood on too. It's a talent tree of options for a reason. [B]If, say you have such a gross mismatch between tier options, that doesn't mean you remove it, that's a problem with the tier tree. Oh hey, this thing here is broken. Wanna fix it? Nah remove it

There is a difference between an undertuned talent and a really fucking bad idea talent. Plague leech is a bad idea talents. Its garbage. always been garbage and its only even used now by dw frost cause of mastersimple.

Plague Leech is the best choice in terms of single-target fights, providing a substantial improvement to your tanking performance.

Its provides NOTHING to your tanking performance, and you have 0 proof to show me otherwise. Blood dks are more than GCD capped in SoO gear to simply rune strike/death strike to infinity.

Blood dks keep rolling blood on 99% percent of the time because the other 2 options suck. Plain and simple.

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It's really as simple as Deathknights had the most complex tanking rotation and system in the game. It's being simplified to something more on the druid level.

Most Complex? Monk tanking is far more intimate, has such a good model its being extended in some way to all tanks. (Especially with secondary stat scaling)

[Shiira]

Plague leech was used by dw frost before the buff and before mastersimple.

[Deleted]

Well then that's kind of a stupid name for them, isn't it... Should they be called the shield that isn;t called blood shield, and the blood worms that dont release blood, in the unholy spec that really isn't unholy but we couldn't think of another name

From the wing in the ICC that has vampires in it, that aren;t vampires, but use blood magic... that isn't blood magic because apparently deathknights don't weild blood magic.

Oh wait, no, that's stupid

furthermore, how does shooting an unholy bolt at someone heal you? Exactly?

It's really as simple as Deathknights had the most complex tanking rotation and system in the game. It's being simplified to something more on the druid level.

Paladins do seem like they don't have too much removed though

Blood as in "vampiric properties". Blood is the life essence, and blood dks are draining the essence of life from their enemys, makes sense calling them that way even if they don't use blood magic.

Your argument about the San'layn? Totally out of place. San'layn do use blood magic, but they are no death knights.

DC won't heal you (anymore, it did through Lichborne, but that never concerned you, did it?), it increases your health pool. I think the buff is called Shadow of Death or something.

And dks having the most complex tanking rotation? That has NEVER been true. From WotLK until now, that was never the case.
Also it's getting MORE complex with the changes. Read the notes for details.

Yeah, paladins also didn't get reworked like we did. Also different classes, not comparable

[Challenge]

Plague leech was used by dw frost before the buff and before mastersimple.

If I recall correctly though no one played DW frost before the buffs in this patch .So that may be true, but for 1 death rune and to take off both diseases, I dont think so. I could very well be wrong on that.

[Shiira]

I guess you only joined this expansion recently then, dw was the shit back in t14 and it was pretty okay during t15 progress before we got the trinkets necessary for unholy.

[Challenge]

I mained monk in t14 and t15. only started playing my dk again in late t15. Even then the RNG gods blessed me to get an early feather on like my 2nd kill so I've just virtually always been unholy this expansion.

[Shiira]

Fair enough then.

But yeah, plague leech has been a thing for a long time.

It's a situationally less bad talent in a tier of bad talents, but it's still a damage increase if you use it well.

I remember tabbing plague strikes onto secondary targets on sha of fear, then leeching the rune back for an extra howling blast without needing to drop diseases on the main target.

[Milocow]

Suggestion from another thread : Recolor Death Coil's Animation and Icon into red color and call in Blood Coil


DISCUSS

[bals]

Suggestion from another thread : Recolor Death Coil's Animation and Icon into red color and call in Blood Coil


DISCUSS

i just really don't see why people are so butt hurt about these changes.
not like dks have really ever had any cool animations or anything. at least t100 should kind of fix that
and dk tanks were clearly one of the worse tanks and they seem to be getting a good amount of love.

[Milocow]

i just really don't see why people are so butt hurt about these changes.
not like dks have really ever had any cool animations or anything. at least t100 should kind of fix that
and dk tanks were clearly one of the worse tanks and they seem to be getting a good amount of love.

yea 2 melee strikes without any or little animation are being removed what's there to be butthurt about

EDIT: As Blood enters execute phase, Blood runes will be spent on SR instead of Pestilence.
Do you think SR should give SoB stacks just like pestilence?
Perhaps 1 or even 2 (1 for physical attack, 1 for shadow damage after 6secs)

[Gemini Soul]

Suggestion from another thread : Recolor Death Coil's Animation and Icon into red color and call in Blood Coil


DISCUSS

Blood Bolt

It looks like both Frost and Unholy have 91+ perks for their Runeforges

Would be nice to see SSG get some love

[Deleted]

Suggestion from another thread : Recolor Death Coil's Animation and Icon into red color and call in Blood Coil


DISCUSS

I don't get that point. On the one hand people complain about losing so much class identity with the removal of HS, and then they advocate scrapping DC for something new.
Also a blood coil makes no sense, since dks dont wield blood magic. Bloods spells are unholy magic, so giving them blood magic just because the name matches better makes no sense.

[Skarssen]

I don't get that point. On the one hand people complain about losing so much class identity with the removal of HS, and then they advocate scrapping DC for something new.
Also a blood coil makes no sense, since dks dont wield blood magic. Bloods spells are unholy magic, so giving them blood magic just because the name matches better makes no sense.

Turning a spec that has been about melee and physical damage (both in its DPS and tank incarnations) since its inception into a spec with 1 melee attack and mostly spell damage doesn't make sense either, but Blizzard had no problem with that so why would they object to making an icon red?