Rogue 6.0 patch notes

[Geckoo]

What? BF always had a target limit. What happened in 5.2 was that they increased in from 1 to 4 while reducing the cleave damage from 100% to 40%.

I guess you're right, i don't really remember that much about it, but my point still stands, even stronger!

[Ryme]

I think we need Flurry to go back to hitting one target for 100% damage, then rebalance all rogue AoE into FoK with Crimson Tempest providing proper spec specific benefits. Tune accordingly.

We had this idea initially, Assassination and Subs perks still exist, combat's was going to be an energy reduction to FoK. These bonuses aren't quite there in terms of tuning, but they have the concept down and I think it works well to hit on the long standing problem of spec differentiation.

[fierydemise]

FYI one of the SimC devs was saying the combat results you posted earlier aren't entirely accurate, they applied the 0.82 modifier on evis just to sub it appears to be a global modifier so combat's dps is going to go down even more.

[Feali]

BTW - If anyone was concerned: Brawler's Guild is pretty manageable (keep in mind this was with ILvl 666 and 4pc). Some mobs just hit like trucks.

[Ryme]

FYI one of the SimC devs was saying the combat results you posted earlier aren't entirely accurate, they applied the 0.82 modifier on evis just to sub it appears to be a global modifier so combat's dps is going to go down even more.

Thanks for the update, at a rough estimate then, that should account for around 1.5k dps (around 4% loss).

[Deleted]

Tremendously confused about the recent build.

If I am reading this correctly, they basically hammered Sub into the ground, while giving buffs to Assa. Combat single target dps suffered, and Assa+Sub AoE were nerfed.

What?

The?

F....?


WHY? Its not even a general nerf to rogues, on the contrary...Combat remains the dominant AoE Spec, Assa will now probably do the most single target...its like they are going to cement roles for the specs...

[Feali]

Tremendously confused about the recent build.

If I am reading this correctly, they basically hammered Sub into the ground, while giving buffs to Assa. Combat single target dps suffered, and Assa+Sub AoE were nerfed.

What?

The?

F....?


WHY? Its not even a general nerf to rogues, on the contrary...Combat remains the dominant AoE Spec, Assa will now probably do the most single target...its like they are going to cement roles for the specs...

They basically said: YOU WANT BACKSTAB TO BE USED IN FRONT? Here have Sub nerfed so it doesn't matter!

(AoC still doesn't work for whatever goddamn reason)

[fierydemise]

Thanks for the update, at a rough estimate then, that should account for around 1.5k dps (around 4% loss).

The latest SimC build should have the combat evis nerfs in now.

[Deleted]

I just simmed with latest build, but my results are not similar to yours Ryme, what settings are you using (mainly fight length, perhaps something else you changed)? Anyway, here are my results for t17H and 17m profiles:





Both at 300s fight length.

[Ryme]

I've got slightly modified gear sets and rotation use for all specs.

Sub:

rogue="Rogue_Subtlety_T17H"
level=100
race=troll
role=attack
position=back
talents=http://us.battle.net/wow/en/tool/talent-calculator#cb!2000021
glyphs=energy
spec=subtlety

# Executed before combat begins. Accepts non-harmful actions only.

actions.precombat=flask,type=greater_draenic_agility_flask
actions.precombat+=/food,type=sea_mist_rice_noodles
actions.precombat+=/apply_poison,lethal=deadly,nonlethal=crippling
# Snapshot raid buffed stats before combat begins and pre-potting is done.
actions.precombat+=/snapshot_stats
actions.precombat+=/potion,name=draenic_agility
actions.precombat+=/stealth
actions.precombat+=/premeditation
actions.precombat+=/slice_and_dice

# Executed every time the actor is available.

actions=potion,name=draenic_agility,if=buff.bloodlust.react|target.time_to_die<40
actions+=/kick
actions+=/use_item,slot=trinket2,if=buff.shadow_dance.up
actions+=/blood_fury,if=buff.shadow_dance.up
actions+=/berserking,if=buff.shadow_dance.up
actions+=/arcane_torrent,if=energy<60
actions+=/premeditation,if=combo_points<=4
actions+=/pool_resource,for_next=1
actions+=/ambush,if=combo_points<5|(talent.anticipation.enabled&anticipation_charges<3)|(buff.sleight_of_hand.up&buff.sleight_of_hand.remains<=gcd)
actions+=/pool_resource,for_next=1,extra_amount=75
actions+=/shadow_dance,if=energy>=75&buff.stealth.down&buff.vanish.down&debuff.find_weakness.down
actions+=/pool_resource,for_next=1,extra_amount=45
actions+=/vanish,if=energy>=45&energy<=75&combo_points<=3&buff.shadow_dance.down&buff.master_of_subtlety.down&debuff.find_weakness.down
actions+=/marked_for_death,if=combo_points=0
actions+=/shadow_reflection,if=buff.shadow_dance.up
actions+=/run_action_list,name=generator,if=talent.anticipation.enabled&anticipation_charges<4&buff.slice_and_dice.up&dot.rupture.remains>2&(buff.slice_and_dice.remains<6|dot.rupture.remains<4)
actions+=/run_action_list,name=finisher,if=combo_points=5
actions+=/run_action_list,name=generator,if=combo_points<4|energy>80|talent.anticipation.enabled
actions+=/run_action_list,name=pool

# Combo point generators

actions.generator=run_action_list,name=pool,if=buff.master_of_subtlety.down&buff.shadow_dance.down&debuff.find_weakness.down&(energy+cooldown.shadow_dance.remains*energy.regen<80|energy+cooldown.vanish.remains*energy.regen<60)
actions.generator+=/fan_of_knives,if=active_enemies>=4
actions.generator+=/hemorrhage,if=(remains<8&target.time_to_die>10)|position_front
actions.generator+=/shuriken_toss,if=energy<65&energy.regen<16
actions.generator+=/backstab
actions.generator+=/run_action_list,name=pool

# Combo point finishers

actions.finisher=slice_and_dice,if=buff.slice_and_dice.remains<4
actions.finisher+=/rupture,if=(!ticking|remains<duration*0.3)&active_enemies<3
actions.finisher+=/crimson_tempest,if=(active_enemies>1&dot.crimson_tempest_dot.ticks_remain<=2&combo_points=5)|active_enemies>=5
actions.finisher+=/eviscerate,if=active_enemies<4|(active_enemies>3&dot.crimson_tempest_dot.ticks_remain>=2)
actions.finisher+=/run_action_list,name=pool

# Resource pooling

actions.pool=preparation,if=!buff.vanish.up&cooldown.vanish.remains>60

head=poisoners_helmet,id=115572,bonus_id=567
neck=darklight_necklace,id=113865,bonus_id=567,enchant=gift_of_critical_strike
shoulders=poisoners_spaulders,id=115574,bonus_id=567
back=drape_of_the_dark_hunt,id=113971,bonus_id=567,enchant=gift_of_critical_strike
chest=poisoners_tunic,id=115570,bonus_id=567
wrists=bracers_of_shattered_stalactites,id=113935,bonus_id=567
hands=poisoners_gloves,id=115571,bonus_id=567
waist=conductors_multipocket_girdle,id=113964,bonus_id=567
legs=shattering_smash_leggings,id=113989,bonus_id=567
feet=furnace_tenders_treads,id=113895,bonus_id=567
finger1=spellbound_runic_band_of_unrelenting_slaughter,id=118307,enchant=gift_of_critical_strike
finger2=unexploded_explosive_shard,id=113877,bonus_id=567,enchant=gift_of_critical_strike
trinket1=scales_of_doom,id=113612,bonus_id=567
trinket2=beating_heart_of_the_mountain,id=113931,bonus_id=567
main_hand=oregorgers_acidetched_gutripper,id=113874,bonus_id=567,enchant=mark_of_the_frostwolf
off_hand=oregorgers_acidetched_gutripper,id=113874,bonus_id=567,enchant=mark_of_the_frostwolf

.

Combat:

rogue="Combat_Slow_Slow"
level=100
race=troll
role=attack
position=back
talents=http://us.battle.net/wow/en/tool/talent-calculator#cZ!2000010
spec=combat

# Executed before combat begins. Accepts non-harmful actions only.

actions.precombat=flask,type=greater_draenic_agility_flask
actions.precombat+=/food,type=sea_mist_rice_noodles
actions.precombat+=/apply_poison,lethal=deadly,nonlethal=crippling
actions.precombat+=/snapshot_stats
actions.precombat+=/potion,name=draenic_agility
actions.precombat+=/stealth
actions.precombat+=/marked_for_death
actions.precombat+=/slice_and_dice,if=talent.marked_for_death.enabled

# Executed every time the actor is available.

actions=potion,name=draenic_agility,if=buff.bloodlust.react|target.time_to_die<40
actions+=/kick
actions+=/use_item,slot=trinket2
actions+=/blood_fury
actions+=/berserking
actions+=/arcane_torrent,if=energy<60
actions+=/blade_flurry,if=(active_enemies>=2&!buff.blade_flurry.up)|(active_enemies<2&buff.blade_flurry.up)
actions+=/shadow_reflection,if=(cooldown.killing_spree.remains<10&combo_points>3)|buff.adrenaline_rush.up
actions+=/ambush
actions+=/killing_spree,if=energy<50&(!talent.shadow_reflection.enabled|cooldown.shadow_reflection.remains>30|buff.shadow_reflection.remains>3)
actions+=/adrenaline_rush,if=energy<35
actions+=/slice_and_dice,if=buff.slice_and_dice.remains<2|(buff.slice_and_dice.remains<15&buff.bandits_guile.stack=11&combo_points>=4)
actions+=/marked_for_death,if=combo_points<=1&dot.revealing_strike.ticking&(!talent.shadow_reflection.enabled|buff.shadow_reflection.up|cooldown.shadow_reflection.remains>30)
actions+=/call_action_list,name=generator,if=combo_points<5|(talent.anticipation.enabled&anticipation_charges<=4&buff.deep_insight.down)
actions+=/call_action_list,name=finisher,if=combo_points=5&(buff.deep_insight.up|!talent.anticipation.enabled|(talent.anticipation.enabled&anticipation_charges>=4))

actions.finisher=crimson_tempest,if=active_enemies>7&dot.crimson_tempest_dot.ticks_remain<=1
actions.finisher+=/eviscerate

actions.generator=revealing_strike,if=ticks_remain<2
actions.generator+=/sinister_strike

head=poisoners_helmet,id=115572,bonus_id=567
neck=engineers_grounded_gorget,id=113892,bonus_id=567,enchant=gift_of_haste
shoulders=poisoners_spaulders,id=115574,bonus_id=567
back=cloak_of_delving_secrets,id=113929,bonus_id=567,enchant=gift_of_haste
chest=poisoners_tunic,id=115570,bonus_id=567
wrists=squires_electroplated_bracers,id=113962,bonus_id=567
hands=poisoners_gloves,id=115571,bonus_id=567
waist=girdle_of_unconquered_glory,id=113907,bonus_id=567
legs=shattering_smash_leggings,id=113989,bonus_id=567
feet=treads_of_the_dark_hunt,id=113974,bonus_id=567
finger1=spellbound_runic_band_of_unrelenting_slaughter,id=118307,enchant=gift_of_haste
finger2=flensers_hookring,id=113611,bonus_id=567,enchant=gift_of_haste
trinket1=meaty_dragonspine_trophy,id=118114,bonus_id=567
trinket2=beating_heart_of_the_mountain,id=113931,bonus_id=567
main_hand=sorkas_chainfist,id=113965,bonus_id=567,enchant=mark_of_warsong
off_hand=sorkas_chainfist,id=113965,bonus_id=567,enchant=mark_of_warsong

# Gear Summary
# gear_agility=3549
# gear_stamina=4451
# gear_crit_rating=317
# gear_haste_rating=1653
# gear_mastery_rating=1463
# gear_armor=1147
# gear_multistrike_rating=1010
# gear_versatility_rating=122
# set_bonus=tier17_2pc=1
# set_bonus=tier17_4pc=1

.

Assassination:

rogue="Rogue_Assassination_T17H"
level=100
race=troll
role=attack
position=back
talents=http://us.battle.net/wow/en/tool/talent-calculator#ca!2....21
glyphs=vendetta/energy/disappearance
spec=assassination


# Executed before combat begins. Accepts non-harmful actions only.

actions.precombat=flask,type=greater_draenic_agility_flask
actions.precombat+=/food,type=sea_mist_rice_noodles
actions.precombat+=/apply_poison,lethal=deadly,nonlethal=crippling
# Snapshot raid buffed stats before combat begins and pre-potting is done.
actions.precombat+=/snapshot_stats
actions.precombat+=/potion,name=draenic_agility
actions.precombat+=/stealth
actions.precombat+=/marked_for_death
actions.precombat+=/slice_and_dice,if=talent.marked_for_death.enabled

# Executed every time the actor is available.

actions=potion,name=draenic_agility,if=buff.bloodlust.react|target.time_to_die<40
actions+=/kick
actions+=/preparation,if=!buff.vanish.up&cooldown.vanish.remains>60
actions+=/use_item,slot=trinket2
actions+=/blood_fury
actions+=/berserking
actions+=/arcane_torrent,if=energy<60
actions+=/vanish,if=time>10&!buff.stealth.up
actions+=/rupture,if=combo_points=5&ticks_remain<3
actions+=/rupture,cycle_targets=1,if=active_enemies>1&!ticking&combo_points=5
actions+=/mutilate,if=buff.stealth.up
actions+=/marked_for_death,if=combo_points=0
actions+=/fan_of_knives,if=combo_points<5&active_enemies>=4
actions+=/rupture,if=(remains<2|(combo_points=5&remains<=(duration*0.3)))&active_enemies=1
actions+=/vendetta
actions+=/shadow_reflection,if=debuff.vendetta.up
actions+=/envenom,if=(combo_points>4&buff.envenom.remains<2&(cooldown.death_from_above.remains>2|!talent.death_from_above.enabled))&active_enemies<4
actions+=/mutilate,if=target.health.pct>35&combo_points<5&active_enemies<5
actions+=/dispatch,if=(combo_points<5|(talent.anticipation.enabled&anticipation_charges<4))&active_enemies<4
actions+=/mutilate,if=active_enemies<5

head=poisoners_helmet,id=115572,bonus_id=567
neck=darklight_necklace,id=113865,bonus_id=567,enchant=gift_of_critical_strike
shoulders=flamebenders_shoulderguards,id=113924,bonus_id=567
back=drape_of_the_dark_hunt,id=113971,bonus_id=567,enchant=gift_of_critical_strike
chest=poisoners_tunic,id=115570,bonus_id=567
wrists=bracers_of_shattered_stalactites,id=113935,bonus_id=567
hands=poisoners_gloves,id=115571,bonus_id=567
waist=conductors_multipocket_girdle,id=113964,bonus_id=567
legs=poisoners_legguards,id=115573,bonus_id=567
feet=furnace_tenders_treads,id=113895,bonus_id=567
finger1=spellbound_runic_band_of_unrelenting_slaughter,id=118307,enchant=gift_of_critical_strike
finger2=unexploded_explosive_shard,id=113877,bonus_id=567,enchant=gift_of_critical_strike
trinket1=humming_blackiron_trigger,id=113985,bonus_id=567
trinket2=beating_heart_of_the_mountain,id=113931,bonus_id=567
main_hand=oregorgers_acidetched_gutripper,id=113874,bonus_id=567,enchant=mark_of_bleeding_hollow
off_hand=oregorgers_acidetched_gutripper,id=113874,bonus_id=567,enchant=mark_of_bleeding_hollow

[Deleted]

Yeah, using your profiles and setting fight length back to 450s (also enabled all buffs) I'm getting somewhat similar numbers. These numbers should take combat nerf into consideration too:



EDIT: typo

[Feali]

Sad to see Sub at the bottom again.

[fierydemise]

You can probably increase combat's damage but switching its 100 talent to SR from LZ, I would say remove hemo-weaving from sub as well but with the backstab nerf there is a pretty good chance hemo-weaving is back.

EDIT: Quick SimC run shows hemo-weaving isn't back but I'm not entirely sure why it isn't. Something to explore more after work.

[isaaru]

First I want to explain that I am REALLYsad about subterfuge being taken out, It was the Essence of a rogue IMO, the whole reason I play a rogue is because I can attack you and you don't see me(in ten years its the only class I'v played)

I think it wold make MUCH more sense to lower the damage done while subterfuge is active while keeping its cloaking ability's fully alive i mean attacking from the shadows is what rogues are about, next will they take stealth away all together? might as well remove openers while your at it....rogues aren't burst dps or anything.

I change my mind I'm not sad, I'm really angry; worst change I can ever recall occurring.

now this really does make me sad, Removal of disarm trap....I cant understand why, and that's not ability pruning it was already rightfully passive(should have been passive back in BWL./shrug and roll eyes)
again isn't disarming traps an iconic part to being a rogue? how will I avoid ice-trap? can I still pick locks? and if I can pick a lock WHY cant I disarm a trap?
seriously I feel like bliz is turning us into monks or warriors i wanna be my own class not generalized into a piece of putty no different then the next class.

ALSO the combo point change was unnecessary if you simply removed the cooldown(even 10secs was way too long, who ever had the idea of a one minute cooldown when boss adds die in 5secs I mean come on is their only one add a minute? lets be real) from redirect it would accomplish the same thing only require slightly more skill and wouldn't be completely breaking playstyle

difficulty=fun that lasts years
easy=fun for a day



now all that being said I'm REALLY looking forward to WoD more then any xpac every before, I'm really upset about these changes but that doesn't ruin a game, possibly just a class but not a whole game

[Ryme]

You can probably increase combat's damage but switching its 100 talent to SR from LZ, I would say remove hemo-weaving from sub as well but with the backstab nerf there is a pretty good chance hemo-weaving is back.

EDIT: Quick SimC run shows hemo-weaving isn't back but I'm not entirely sure why it isn't. Something to explore more after work.

LZ comes out ahead of SR for combat currently, I've found no way of timing or using SR currently that puts it ahead.
I still have Hemo usage as an increase for Sub.

- - - Updated - - -

Couple of notes from latest updates to simc, seems Subs 4pc isn't modelled correctly and dots from the SR will continue to tick despite not showing in the combat log.

[fierydemise]

LZ comes out ahead of SR for combat currently, I've found no way of timing or using SR currently that puts it ahead.
I still have Hemo usage as an increase for Sub.

- - - Updated - - -

Couple of notes from latest updates to simc, seems Subs 4pc isn't modelled correctly and dots from the SR will continue to tick despite not showing in the combat log.

Sub 4pc is odd, the way it behaves in game is nothing like the description, it seems to generate 5 cps and then refund them as well so its granting 2 and sometimes 3 free finishers. On SR apparently SR dots do continue ticking however they aren't associated with the rogue in the combat log, apparently DK's DRW works the same way.

You should really come by #ravenholdt Ryme, we have a lot of discussions I think you'd be interested in in there.

[Sicarius87]

First I want to explain that I am REALLYsad about subterfuge being taken out, It was the Essence of a rogue IMO, the whole reason I play a rogue is because I can attack you and you don't see me(in ten years its the only class I'v played)

I think it wold make MUCH more sense to lower the damage done while subterfuge is active while keeping its cloaking ability's fully alive i mean attacking from the shadows is what rogues are about, next will they take stealth away all together? might as well remove openers while your at it....rogues aren't burst dps or anything.

I change my mind I'm not sad, I'm really angry; worst change I can ever recall occurring.

now this really does make me sad, Removal of disarm trap....I cant understand why, and that's not ability pruning it was already rightfully passive(should have been passive back in BWL./shrug and roll eyes)
again isn't disarming traps an iconic part to being a rogue? how will I avoid ice-trap? can I still pick locks? and if I can pick a lock WHY cant I disarm a trap?
seriously I feel like bliz is turning us into monks or warriors i wanna be my own class not generalized into a piece of putty no different then the next class.

ALSO the combo point change was unnecessary if you simply removed the cooldown(even 10secs was way too long, who ever had the idea of a one minute cooldown when boss adds die in 5secs I mean come on is their only one add a minute? lets be real) from redirect it would accomplish the same thing only require slightly more skill and wouldn't be completely breaking playstyle

difficulty=fun that lasts years
easy=fun for a day



now all that being said I'm REALLY looking forward to WoD more then any xpac every before, I'm really upset about these changes but that doesn't ruin a game, possibly just a class but not a whole game

Subterfuge was too strong and too hard to counter. Thats why the nerf went in. Still functions the same outside of instantly coming out of stealth though.

Combo point change was much needed. What are you talking about?

[Anium]

I am a little bit confused about weapon requirements in WOD for us. I thought they wanted to remove the requirements across all specs, i.e. you could use swords , axes and maces in assassination and sub spec, not being required to use daggers for additional damage on say ambush and daggers required for mutilate. Or have I completely missed the point...

[Feali]

They dropped all of that. Still only Daggers if you want to use Backstab or Mutilate.

[Wow]

I am a little bit confused about weapon requirements in WOD for us. I thought they wanted to remove the requirements across all specs, i.e. you could use swords , axes and maces in assassination and sub spec, not being required to use daggers for additional damage on say ambush and daggers required for mutilate. Or have I completely missed the point...

They said the answer was to just make daggers more available thats why the first raid only has 1 dagger in it..

Oh and looking at 5 mans it only has 1 boss with a dagger too the other one is random drop off trash in one of the hardest 5mans lol.