Should we forgive Garrosh?

[Bosen]

I had hoped the story would've ended up differently. I was hoping something cool would happen and Garrosh would learn from all the problems with the Sha and become a Monk and live the rest of his days as a hero in Pandaria.

[Resentful]

Fuck that execute him -.- shamed his father and was obsessed with power.

[Anzaman]

No, we shouldn't.

[Warlord Booty]

I mean he didn't really do anything wrong to be honest, he put down some rebelious trolls and for some reason he is now evil?

All he was doing is doing the best for his people, just like he is doing in WoD.

To be honest I think Vol'Jin should be put down rebelling against the innocent Garrosh. After all he turned on the horde.

I agree. HAIL HYDRA!

I mean, TRUE HORDE!

[Airwaves]

To be fair, cairne did get himself killed. He took brash action on something Hellscream didn't do. His own hot head got him killed.

[DeadmanWalking]

It died ages ago, and it's possible the Titans didn't notice the Sha because they manifested later.

Anyway I killed Cthun and Yogg with my little pointy dagger and they died just fine, nobody complained.

Oh they noticed the sha alright, when they killed the old god it breathed the 7 sha and thats when the titans realized it wasn't worth destroying the Old Gods because the destruction they would cause around the world if you killed all of them. Instead they opted to imprison the rest because their only other option would be to lose the planet in the resulting fall out.

If garrosh hadn't done what he did pandaria would still be plagued with sha.

[Fenixhart]

I mean he didn't really do anything wrong to be honest, he put down some rebelious trolls and for some reason he is now evil?

All he was doing is doing the best for his people, just like he is doing in WoD.

To be honest I think Vol'Jin should be put down rebelling against the innocent Garrosh. After all he turned on the horde.

Think of why the Trolls rebelled in the first place.

No. Unless he actively makes strides to correct the wrongs he commited, forgiveness is beyond him.

[sociald1077]

Oh they noticed the sha alright, when they killed the old god it breathed the 7 sha and thats when the titans realized it wasn't worth destroying the Old Gods because the destruction they would cause around the world if you killed all of them. Instead they opted to imprison the rest because their only other option would be to lose the planet in the resulting fall out.

If garrosh hadn't done what he did pandaria would still be plagued with sha.

The Pandarian had learned to control their emotion and the Sha had been dormant for thousands of years. It was when war was brought to their land that the sha reemerged.

As for Garrosh ending the sha? He took the heart of an old god to consume its power and destroy everything he deemed unworthy. Had we not stopped him, he would have rolled over Azeroth subjugating and killing all in his path. Pandaria would have fallen to him and they would be much worse off for it.

There is no honor in the lust for power. And the fact he did it eyes wide open, knowing every step of the way infact makes him just as evil as the old gods themselves.

[lunchbox2042]

Vol'Jin is the reason Garrosh went power hungry. If Vol'Jin had just accepted that Garrosh was a better choice to lead the Horde and followed Garrosh as loyally as he did Thrall then the Horde would have been better off. Now we have a whiny Troll as our Warchief instead of a powerful Orc leading the charge.

[Warlord Booty]

To be fair, cairne did get himself killed. He took brash action on something Hellscream didn't do. His own hot head got him killed.

Correct. Cairne, full of brute force and strength, lacked the insight to enchant his weapon with something a bit more useful.

[Tragedia]

No, he was the main cause the Horde splintered when he disregarded all other races. On top of bombing Theramore, destroying the Vale, and a bunch of other things, the dumbass creates an Alternate Draenor and sends a bunch of bloodthirsty Orcs to invade Azeroth. He is beyond redemption by this point.

[Deleted]

The Pandarian had learned to control their emotion and the Sha had been dormant for thousands of years. It was when war was brought to their land that the sha reemerged.

Yeah, except for the fact that they had been empowering the Sha of Pride all these years because they took such pride in what they do. So they would have been screwed anyway, they should be lucky that we came and burst the Sha out of their hiding places, it was a bloody, but ultimately necessary war I believe.

[Tenjen]

Only because Vol'jin questioned Garrosh and was already starting to rebel, So did cairne and look where that got him. Well deserved death.

He already expressed clear dislike for anything except orcs, was making decisions that ran against the "heart of the horde" and was transforming it into a monster. warmongering was not what the horde family was about.

Living as 2nd class citizens/half slaves instead of equals is not something vol'jin was going to take lying down. the writing was on the wall. 's a troll, he KNOW 10 moves ahead of everyone else when shit is going to go down.

- - - Updated - - -

Cairne was not a hothead. He was reasonably angry with someone screwing up the nature of the horde. He was misinformed as was everyone else. He had a very precise point to make and had confidence in his ability to defeat Garrosh (and then NOT take his life, instead leaving him with humility and a lesson, that could have possibly helped sway his personality at that point in time, when he hadn't yet crossed too many lines). He was defeating Garrosh until he got glanced by the poisoned blade. A better enchant would not have helped.

No one counted on the poison and the poisoner.

- - - Updated - - -

As for forgiveness.

Forgiveness is a two way road. Its a mutual pact. It has to achieve a better state.

Forgiveness implies something to be forgiven. it implies that the person being forgiven thinks he has done something that has to be forgiven, cause otherwise he puts no value in the forgiveness and won't stop doing what you're trying to forgive.

You cant forgive someone who see's no wrong in his actions (except being caught or having them stopped) and will laugh in your face if you give it to him.

He'll just go back to slaughtering either way. The new soldiers on both sides, and the victims and their loved ones paying for your forgiveness with their suffering and lives.

There's no forgiveness to be found with such an individual. In such cases, it achieves nothing. It's only so much forgotten air and vibrations.

[Arrashi]

The only thing i can't forgive garrosh is how soft he was. Seriously, if he wasnt playing nice with his enemies perhaps he could won.

[Warlord Booty]

No one counted on the poison and the poisoner.

You come at the King, you best not miss.

[Restors]

I mean he didn't really do anything wrong to be honest, he put down some rebelious trolls and for some reason he is now evil?

All he was doing is doing the best for his people, just like he is doing in WoD.

To be honest I think Vol'Jin should be put down rebelling against the innocent Garrosh. After all he turned on the horde.

I'm really not sure what you mean by your statement. If he hasn't done anything wrong (according to you), what's there to forgive?

[Deleted]

Garrosh made the Goblins go to the slums, sneered on the Darkspear trolls, killed Cairne (no, I'm not forgiving that and I know about the weapon thing, still), bombed Theramore (which made Jaina go bonkers), almost killed Vol'jin (eff him, no one touches my lovely Vol'jin), treated the blood elves like crap and let himself be tainted by the heart of an Old God.

I'll forgive him all right but I won't forget all the crap he did. He can try to redeem himself tho.

[steveyboy]

I'm really not sure what you mean by your statement. If he hasn't done anything wrong (according to you), what's there to forgive?

Well some people seem to have had it against Garrosh ever since he first appeared in Outlands.

If anything, they owe Garrosh an apology.

[Restors]

Well some people seem to have had it against Garrosh ever since he first appeared in Outlands.

If anything, they owe Garrosh an apology.

If someone has to apoligize, it's Blizzard for ruining him. He were perfectly fine during Cataclysm, actually I loved him. No more negotiations with the alliance like Thrall did for too long. He claimed lands for the horde, united more races / clans to the horde etc. But, Pandaria arrives and he goes all nuts.

[Raiju]

Is this guy real, did this guy not raid SOO or pay attention to anything about Garrosh in the last 2 years

hello?

We do the same and worse as adventurers and representatives of our faction - and until SoO garrosh really hadn't done anything 'bad' anyway.

And we know that he wasn't meant to be the end boss this expansion but the next (from blizzard) which means his story was rushed and he was pigeon-holed into being the bad guy, rather than it being a steady development of some sort. Back in cata he was a powerful warchief and even the bombing of theramore was a fantastic strategic maneuver. His show to the alliance meant he (originally - not the SoO let's make garry as bad as possible additions/retcons), not only minimized civilian casualties but maximized damage to the alliance army.