Senate Republicans Vote Down Bill on Equal Pay

[Mormolyce]

Pay gaps exist everywhere. Gender, age, ethnicity, race, culture, industry.

Even how attractive you are: http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/...55331418204842
http://www.businessinsider.com/attra...cessful-2012-9

There are often valid reasons for observing a pay gap between groups. Men are better investments in long term employment, simply due to sociological factors, namely the division of labour. Attractive people probably earn more because clients like them more, or they're simply more pleasant to look at day in day out and give the firm a better look.

And if you live in a racist neighbourhood, you might not want to employ black staff for fear of alienating customers.

Which is why that kind of thing is illegal.

[Deleted]

And if you live in a racist neighbourhood, you might not want to employ black staff for fear of alienating customers.

Which is why that kind of thing is illegal.

Nothing I mentioned had to do with employing habits, but pay habits.

Perhaps try to reply to the comment, and not go off on tangents?

[felcommander]

Don't like the salary you're being offered, don't take the job.

[Sunseeker]

That's not how it works. If you make a claim, then you provide the evidence. You can't just say "Look it up yourself" and then act as if that proves something.

Wells did the legwork for both of us. My point was that the issue is more nuanced than people make it out to be.

I'm not trying to prove it to you, because I don't really care that much. I was pointing out that there's more to the issue than an average pay gap.

I also don't understand why the jobs being female dominant somehow implies sexism more than male dominant jobs. Just because somebody said so?

Men working in female dominated professions tend to get paid more, sometimes for good reason because of their career choices. Sometimes for no reason. If a man is getting paid more to do the same job as a woman, in a profession usually dominated by women, I think that makes a fairly clear point that something is amiss.

[Zython]

Don't like the salary you're being offered, don't take the job.

1. Yeah, because jobs are so fucking plentiful.

2. How are you supposed to know you're getting a raw deal if you don't know what your coworkers are getting?

[spinner981]

How is paying men more for doing the same work as women discrimination?

That's an extremely vague generalization that seems to draw from a mysterious unspoken source with an imposed single conclusion even though there could be and ARE numerous reasons as to why a pay gap would exist for two types of people that have very common differences.

[theostrichsays]

Wells did the legwork for both of us. My point was that the issue is more nuanced than people make it out to be.

I'm not trying to prove it to you, because I don't really care that much. I was pointing out that there's more to the issue than an average pay gap.


Men working in female dominated professions tend to get paid more, sometimes for good reason because of their career choices. Sometimes for no reason. If a man is getting paid more to do the same job as a woman, in a profession usually dominated by women, I think that makes a fairly clear point that something is amiss.

I actually looked up nursing and teaching and found valid reason for averages. Now specific scenarios it don't mention, Google took me to lots of anecdotal stories.. true or not isn't something I can make the call on, but as far as averages go two previous posts explain it.
Secutaries... not a clue though. Given those were your three examples.

[spinner981]

Wells did the legwork for both of us. My point was that the issue is more nuanced than people make it out to be.

I'm not trying to prove it to you, because I don't really care that much. I was pointing out that there's more to the issue than an average pay gap.


Men working in female dominated professions tend to get paid more, sometimes for good reason because of their career choices. Sometimes for no reason. If a man is getting paid more to do the same job as a woman, in a profession usually dominated by women, I think that makes a fairly clear point that something is amiss.

It makes no point. Even if it is female dominated, men can take the higher paying aspects of those jobs. Also, I don't see where wells did the legwork for anyone.

[SocialJusticeWarrior]

Why don't more employers hire more women if they can get them for so much cheaper? I mean all things being the same as men, like work performance, work ethic, work qualifications, it should be a no-brainer? Right?

[spinner981]

Why don't more employers hire more women if they can get them for so much cheaper? I mean all things being the same as men, like work performance, work ethic, work qualifications, it should be a no-brainer? Right?

They must just be sexist bastards. Every. Single. One.

[Deleted]

Why don't more employers hire more women if they can get them for so much cheaper? I mean all things being the same as men, like work performance, work ethic, work qualifications, it should be a no-brainer? Right?

That isn't how these figures come about. Like for like, they earn the same. But individual cases create these statistics that people think apply all cases.

Take the 12% less figure from early in the thread. Women might be earning 88% of what men earn because a variety of factors. Men do more overtime, take less sick days, less career breaks, less toil days, more unpaid overtime to advance careers, spend less time with their families voluntarily.

[Kraenen]

Having a government decide what is an equal wage, and who deserves to get it, is a very bad idea.

having business do it is even worse

[Wyshbonez]

Government control of wages... what could POSSIBLY go wrong with that?

Goverment control of healthcare.... what could POSSIBLE go wrong with that...

Donald trump meme:

Let me get this straight...
We're going to be "gifted" with a health care plan we are forced to
purchase and fined if we don't, which purportedly covers at least ten
million more people, without adding a single new doctor, but provides for
16,000 new IRS agents, written by a committee whose chairman says he
doesn't understand it, passed by a Congress who didn't read it but
exempted themselves from it, and signed by a Dumbo President who smokes,
with funding administered by a treasury chief who didn't pay his taxes,
for which we'll be taxed for four years before any benefits take effect,
by a government who has already bankrupted Social Security and Medicare,
all to be overseen by a Surgeon General who is obese, and financed by a
country that is broke!!!! What could possible go wrong

[Wells]

It makes no point. Even if it is female dominated, men can take the higher paying aspects of those jobs. Also, I don't see where wells did the legwork for anyone.

I think it takes willful ignorance to claim that ~20% pay gaps in the same jobs can be explained this way.

[CannibalJeri]

donald trump has downs

[spinner981]

having business do it is even worse

Because you said so, right? Having businesses do it creates competition. Competition encourages businesses to better pay their workers. The government wouldn't have any competition and would simply decide everything arbitrarily.

[spinner981]

I think it takes willful ignorance to claim that ~20% pay gaps in the same jobs can be explained this way.

Because you said so, right? That's not all the reasons, but its certainly one of them.

[theostrichsays]

I think it takes willful ignorance to claim that ~20% pay gaps in the same jobs can be explained this way.

Well on nursing if men only make up 7 percent of the force yet 45 percent of one of the highest paying fields in nursing is men (couldn't find the numbers on what percent of men total it is in that field) coupled with the average of men working more hours and apparently these things don't take into consideration 30 hours is full time and that if more men work 40 plus hours and a chunk of women work 30 hours (still FTYR) then yes that would help explain the difference.
I am not going to pretend that there is a gap of 0. But without getting into specific fields in nursing/teaching and the like then averaging it on hours-earned wages then figuring out what the average 40 hour week earned, I don't think it is as unlikely as you think.
Small anecdotal example, I asked a friend of mine about this anesthesiology field I read about. She works as a nurse at University of Louisville hospital, she typically works 32-32-42 hours per week cycles. The people in the anesthesiology field work significantly more, because there are less of them available. Yet as a whole nursing of all fields get lumped together.
Once again not saying that it explains any and all specific examples, and maybe not all 20 percent, but I would believe that it covers a fair bit.

Also not directed to Wells here, but people pay attention to Donald Trump?

[jordonus]

This bill is nothing new, it has been going around for a while and keeps getting shut down. Probably because it's a waste of time for a problem that doesn't even exist, especially not the way it's portrayed in the media and such. The government already knows about this and the people pushing this shit just want votes from the professional victims.

http://www.consad.com/content/report...l%20Report.pdf

And here are some reasons why this type of bill is terrible and why it will cause more problems than it fixes (none):
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/22/op...22Sommers.html
http://www.forbes.com/sites/docket/2...-anything-but/

Boggles my mind that the professional victims pick this kind of stuff up and run with it as some kind of institutionalized sexism; completely ignoring the fact that we are a sexually dimorphic species, different genders make different choices.

[mvaliz]

haha, did you read the link you provided. They're comparing all full time employees. They don't consider men who as other studies have shown, work longer hours and work in professions that pay more. Nice try, but if you're going to claim something at least read the damn thing first.

...what previous century or backwards country do you post from. o_O