Question about Surging Mist spam ...

[Deleted]

Hi, new mw monk here I'm a bit confused about Surging Mist ... Some monks remove it from their action bars (in PvP), because they say they go oom in seconds, if they spam it for Chi gen., while others use it a lot and never go oom. Now I can't really imagine how can you go oom with casting Surging Mist, which only costs 8,8% of base mane??? Can someone enlighten me where's the truth?

We have one of the cheapest 1,5 sec cast of all healers. Druid can spam Regrowth, which costs 29,7% of base mana and they never go oom with doing so. Shamans Healing Sphere cost 34% mana (he can't spam it, obviously), Paladins Flash of Light cost 37,8% mana (and also heals for crap, lol). Only Priest have it cheaper than us: Flash Heal - 5,9% mana. Not to forget that Surging Mist is also the most powerful 1,5 sec heal in the game (heals like twice as much as non crit Regrowth and costs 3 x less mana), so I really don't see a reason why don't we use it more often not only as a Chi generator but also as a very powerful heal/filler?
I would rather remove Soothing Mist from my bars, if i would have to choose between these two:P

[Enpoli]

It's not something you spam for chi. If you just want something to spam for chi, you should be spamming Soothing Mists. Spamming it is actually more efficient chi generation than sitting and letting it channel.

It's just your fast/inefficient single target "oh shit" heal. Unbinding one of your very few healing abilities seems like a really dumb way to play, but whatever.

[TheTrueM4gg0t]

those must be some tooltipp errors, all "Flash Heal" like abilities are somewhat similar in cost (around 20-25k or something like that)
I assume that comes from the days when we did not have static mana pools which grew with int. There the "base mana" was much much lower, which is why you see numbers like 37.8% of base mana. (Paladins do not actually really pay more than 1/3 of their mana to cast one spell ^^)
Nowadays base mana is 300k, but you gain no mana from int anymore (only from special stuff like talents/racials). Mistweavers 8.8% aka 26.4k mana is correct though.
One reason to not use Surging in PvP is Healing Spheres. They are more mana efficient and have no casttime.

[Deleted]

@TheTrueM4gg0t, But I can't just spam healing Spheres in PvP? I also need some Chi. And the best way to generate Chi in PvP is from Surging Mist, wright? I mean channeling Soothing Mist with all these interupts ...

[Astraios]

But it only cost 8,8% of base mana? How can it be just "oh shit" heal? And with 50% haste from gear it's probably less than 1 sec cast with 522 + gear?
I am mostly asking this because of PvP. In pve channeling Soothing Mists is a must, but in PvP with all these intereupts I would rather try with something faster like Surging Mist, besides Healing Spheres.

@TheTrueM4gg0t, But I can't just spam healing Spheres in PvP? I also need some Chi. And the vbest way to get Chi in PvP is from Surging Mist, wright?

First off before you start spouting all this %mana useless PoS facts, you should probably do some research on what you're actually comparing. Specifically hybrid classes in heal spec have something that multiplies their mana from 60k to 300k, so they have the same max mana but their mana costs need to be divided by five.

Further, unless you're spouting exactly 50% haste then it is better to use soothing mist which makes surging mist instant cast with only one second of hard casting as compared to 1.5*100/(100+haste%). Seconds of hard casting.
Healing spheres is more mana efficient and higher healing per second assuming you can use it well, in which case using surging mist seems pretty silly. And why do you need chi when healing spheres out heals it?
Using ReM, expel harm etc, should generate chi if you want to EnVm I suppose.

[Deleted]

First off before you start spouting all this %mana useless PoS facts, you should probably do some research on what you're actually comparing. Specifically hybrid classes in heal spec have something that multiplies their mana from 75k to 300k, so they have the same max mana but their mana costs need to be divided by four.

Further, unless you're spouting exactly 50% haste then it is better to use soothing mist which makes surging mist instant cast with only one second of hard casting as compared to 1.5*100/(100+haste%). Seconds of hard casting.
Healing spheres is more mana efficient and higher healing per second assuming you can use it well, in which case using surging mist seems pretty silly. And why do you need chi when healing spheres out heals it?
Using ReM, expel harm etc, should generate chi if you want to EnVm I suppose.

Ironic, as base mana for Paladins, Shamans and Druids is 60k, not 75k.

Regardless, yeah, Surging Mist is crap, it's getting buffed for WoD.

[Totaltotemic]

Not to forget that Surging Mist is also the most powerful 1,5 sec heal in the game (heals like twice as much as non crit Regrowth and costs 3 x less mana), so I really don't see a reason why don't we use it more often not only as a Chi generator but also as a very powerful heal/filler?

What in the world are you talking about? Regrowth costs less than Surging Mist does. It's also affected by Harmony, much like Priest, Paladin, and Shaman heals are also granted an extra 20-30% throughput from their masteries. Surging Mist is the worst "flash heal" in the game, you're misunderstanding all of the pieces and oversimplifying if you think it's not.

Also you don't need Chi for PvP, Uplift and EM are both trash spells for PvP. Healing Sphere is by far the best heal you could possibly use.

[Astraios]

Ironic, as base mana for Paladins, Shamans and Druids is 60k, not 75k.

Regardless, yeah, Surging Mist is crap, it's getting buffed for WoD.

Whatever, then it's multiplied by five. The general idea remains, and still disproves his "%mana claims". Regardless I'll fix my post.

[Deleted]

Ty all for your replys. Obviously tooltips from mmo champion Talent calculator are compeltely broken, because i've got these numbers (about mana costs) from there. You can check it, if you don't belive me. The tooltip for Surging mist: it heals for 17k + 180% of spell power. Flash of Light (paladin) heals for 12k + 112% of spell power. Do you think these numers are also wrong? Is there any "correct" talent calculator out there which i can check? I am just fresh mw monk and a bit confused :P
sry for eng ...

[Totaltotemic]

Sure it's accurate, that's the base version of the spell that all 3 Paladin specs get. It's then increased by 25% from Holy Insight (Holy passive), 5% from Seal of Insight, and then around 30% of that sum as a shield from Paladin mastery. That's a total of 191% Spellpower + 20,475, all while costing 22,680 mana.

Meanwhile Surging Mist gets a 20% boost from Stance of the Wise Serpent, making it 216% + 20.4k for 26,400 mana. If you compare the actual healing done by each spell, FoL is just barely more HPM and only slightly less HPS.

If you dig even further, Surging gives 1 chi which makes it cost right around the same mana as Flash of Light as well as providing some healing through Uplift, but then you do also get about 35% extra FoL healing from Beacon.

So yeah, it goes a lot further than what the tooltips say, you have to take all passives and secondary effects into account if you want to just blanket compare two spells like that. Something as simple as Paladins getting 30% bonus to everything from passives and Seal of Insight while MW only gets a 20% bonus to healing throws everything off.

[Inay]

Also you don't need Chi for PvP, Uplift and EM are both trash spells for PvP. Healing Sphere is by far the best heal you could possibly use.

You are correct that Uplift is complete trash in PvP and if there is actually one spell you would take off from your action bar it would be that. However EM is far from trash in PvP. It actually is one of your top spells.

[Keiyra]

For the OP if you are still confused:
Druids, Shaman, and Paladins have base mana of 60k (they then have a passive which increases the max mana to 300k)
Monks and Priests have base mana of 300k

Spell costs for the "flash" heals are as follows:
Druid 17820
Pally 22680
Priest 17700
Shaman 20580 (15271 on a crit)
Monk 26400

That is just pure mana costs, doesn't go into HPM/HPS, passive healing bonuses, additional resource generation (Chi or HP), spec/talent interactions etc, etc. You'd have to look at all those things in context of a classes kit to see why spamming it or not is "worth" it.

(IE monks currently have an awesome alternative to surging for pvp, Healing Sphere...enjoy it while you still can )

[Kaykay]

Surging mists should only be used in pvp in combination with thunder tea.

Soothing mist double ticks is more mana efficient and quicker way of generating chi.

And chi is only used in pvp to generate mana tea stacks, aswell as pre-hotting targets before they take damage.

when allies take damage use a combination of orbs and soothing mist to keep them topped. Leaning more towards orbs when you're risking being interupted. (in los of hunters, casters etc)

[nowish]

You are correct that Uplift is complete trash in PvP and if there is actually one spell you would take off from your action bar it would be that. However EM is far from trash in PvP. It actually is one of your top spells.

Its good for rbgs and 5s tho because u dont need range / sight of em to use it and those are pvp "instances" as well? Sry just had to

[Inay]

Its good for rbgs and 5s tho because u dont need range / sight of em to use it and those are pvp "instances" as well? Sry just had to

I mainly run just rbg's and its valid there too.
You need to keep your range to focused targets to heal them and leaving behind to uplift will not keep them alive, EM is much more efficient. It could be used as you stated but that is just gimmicky and you will want to be in range of your target in any case.

[Liff]

However EM is far from trash in PvP. It actually is one of your top spells.

Not really, when it can just be dispelled immediately. :[
And not many teams don't have a Priest, Shaman, Mage or Warlock..

[Inay]

Not really, when it can just be dispelled immediately. :[
And not many teams don't have a Priest, Shaman, Mage or Warlock..

Yes you can dispel it but you can get it up pretty fast again and trust me its throughput for you even in RBG's is going to be more than going for uplift.
Saying things like MW doesn't need chi in pvp or go just for the healing sphere's is just wrong. You use healing spheres when you cant risk being interrupted or counter burst damage. Otherwise you will want to use soothing mist to generate chi and use the chi on EM.

[Smurfz]

I really can't give to much valid information about the usage of Surging mist in PVP. I really don't pvp that often. However, in PVE the use of surging mist is really dependent on your ability to store up and manage Mana Tea. If you spam surging mist you will go OOM very quickly. But, if you have stored up 20 mana tea you can almost do whatever you want with spells. 20 mana tea will completely recharge your mana. So, even though it is frowned upon by most every Mistweaver monk I have spoken to in the past if you have 20 mana tea you can honestly SPAM surging mist all day long.

In pvp I would think it would be about the same. Although as I have already said I don't really pvp that often. Double-Clicking your soothing mist might be better on the mana. If you double click soothing mist it gives a slight boost in healing and will help the player generate Chi. Surging mist should be a last resort in almost all situations I can think of But if the player you are trying to heal is about to die a Surging mist would prolly be better then letting them die.

[nowish]

Yes you can dispel it but you can get it up pretty fast again and trust me its throughput for you even in RBG's is going to be more than going for uplift.
Saying things like MW doesn't need chi in pvp or go just for the healing sphere's is just wrong. You use healing spheres when you cant risk being interrupted or counter burst damage. Otherwise you will want to use soothing mist to generate chi and use the chi on EM.

I doubt you get more healing out of EM than ReM + uplift in most cases (granted u dont sit on flagcarry duty all game, speaking of teammbattles), unless rbgs playstyle has greatly changed since I last did it, which I really dont think is the case. Btw I didnt mean that you should solely rely on ReM and uplift healing, I just stated that you do indeed use them quite alot in rbgs / 5s and that the "no need to be in range" thing was just a small perk in favour of it! Rbg healing is alot like pve healing anyway so nothing incredibly interesting to the gameplay there.

[Deleted]

I've been experimenting lately with the surging mist glyph. I track the meta-gem proc and when it proc I "spam away" (if ppl are injured ofc). It seems quite useful when the raid is spread, otherwise I try to use the freecast for RJW or CJL. (this is in a HC10-raid).