Dutch law in the making: Don't speak the language, no wellfare.

[Gaman]

This should be a requirement everywhere really. If you plan on moving somewhere, learn their god damn language. It's just disrespectful not too.

[Deleted]

I'd rather see countrys deserting their own "shit" languages and move over to englishu tbh. Having a own language isbjust as stupid as having your own unit system o/ america. America should join our unit system and we should join their language.

[Cwimge]

If only could get something like this in the US, but nope...we bend over backwards to make the illegal so comfortable they don't even need to learn the language. Wouldn't surprise me if in time Spanish will be a requirement to get along in this country in the coming decades the way things are going.

come visit Australia sometime, the nation so terrified of being called raciest that we've let the "multicultural" part of society the government is so proud of completely eclipse everything else. Learn the language? get a job? do something other then form your own little community's that you then try and enforce native law on? nah, that's raciest mate, let em go "they suffered"

[Deleted]

This should be a requirement everywhere really. If you plan on moving somewhere, learn their god damn language. It's just disrespectful not too.

Everywhere but not in Belgium, since everyone would technically have to speak 3 languages then. :P

[Stir]

Everywhere but not in Belgium, since everyone would technically have to speak 3 languages then. :P

The (greater) Netherlands has four official languages. Dutch, Frisian and Papiamento. I myself only speak two of these.

[Themius]

come visit Australia sometime, the nation so terrified of being called raciest that we've let the "multicultural" part of society the government is so proud of completely eclipse everything else. Learn the language? get a job? do something other then form your own little community's that you then try and enforce native law on? nah, that's raciest mate, let em go "they suffered"

The East sure does bitch about immigration and love to lament in their anti-multiculturalism. The Dutch have been on somewhat of a xenophobic thing or the past few years...

[Stir]

The Dutch have been on somewhat of a xenophobic thing or the past few years...

Not really. We're just incredibly divided on the issue. Internal turmoil, really. It's just that the xenophobic part screams loudly, and I'm not particularly amazed that the outcries against that don't make international news. After all; we're not a very violent bunch.

Rest assured that there is still a very large group of Dutchies who are decidedly against xenophobia. Xenophobia is still losing the elections; they've been close in the past, but haven't won yet, and are currently losing.

[Beazy]

I love how everyone thinks this is a GREAT idea in the Netherlands, but if the USA did this, it would be an evil republican plot to stop Mexicans from voting.

[Stir]

I love how everyone thinks this is a GREAT idea in the Netherlands, but if the USA did this, it would be an evil republican plot to stop Mexicans from voting.

I kind of agree with the hypocricy sentiment.
After all; this is a pretty populist move.

[Themius]

I love how everyone thinks this is a GREAT idea in the Netherlands, but if the USA did this, it would be an evil republican plot to stop Mexicans from voting.

No, i'm sure the same people who like this wouldn't say it's evil republicans in America. Though in America it would be the Republicans and Conservatives pushing this, not the liberals and democrats.

I kind of agree with the hypocricy sentiment.
After all; this is a pretty populist move.

It's not hypocritical unless a thread is made, right now it's just assumption. I think if the USA did this, this forum would be in support of it.

[v2prwsmb45yhuq3wj23vpjk]

Where are you seeing that? Unless the reasonable demand/expectation for an immigrant to either know or learn the native/primary language of the country they are moving to is somehow racist; in which case the meaning of the word 'racist' has been even more diluted than before, which would not surprise me.

Here's just one quick example from the previous page.

This is clearly extremely xenophobic. /sarcasm.

Don't know why they don't introduce this shit in England. Atleast all the Romanians I come across so far all speak english, pakistanis on the otherhand.........

It's not hypocritical unless a thread is made, right now it's just assumption. I think if the USA did this, this forum would be in support of it.

I definitely wouldn't be. I didn't vote in this thread because I'm not Dutch nor do I have enough knowledge of their country and how things are there.

In the US, this kind of law would just prevent people who already need help from integrating into society. It wouldn't encourage anybody to learn any language, it would just prevent it by ensuring they have to spend all their time working.

[Stir]

It's not hypocritical unless a thread is made, right now it's just assumption. I think if the USA did this, this forum would be in support of it.

Hmm... How about the whole 'driver's licence'-thing with voting that happened some time ago? Or the whole 'teachers bad spanish speach on school grounds,' or examples like that.
It's not exactly hypocritical because there are no two identical cases with a single crowd deciding differently for both, but I can certainly understand the sentiment.

[Themius]

Hmm... How about the whole 'driver's licence'-thing with voting that happened some time ago? Or the whole 'teachers bad spanish speach on school grounds,' or examples like that.
It's not exactly hypocritical because there are no two identical cases with a single crowd deciding differently for both, but I can certainly understand the sentiment.

In the Netherlands would it be considered bad if a teacher wanted to stop two people who speak Arabic from speaking Arabic to each other?

[Gohzerlock]

This should be the standard everywhere.

[LilSaihah]

I love how everyone thinks this is a GREAT idea in the Netherlands, but if the USA did this, it would be an evil republican plot to stop Mexicans from voting.

Haven't Mexicans always made up a fairly well-sized slice of American language?

Anyway, I don't think it's unreasonable that the government expects you to be improving your skillset while you're receiving welfare.

[Bolson13]

People calling this racist (and ignoring all the replies that are purely racist), you do realise that is actually not that racist.

For the basic (not unemployment benefits) you need to do many more things to receive it. For instance, if you have any nest egg (like a house) you need to finish that first before you can qualify for this. Furthermore you need to confirm to your local government guidelines for getting yourself a job again. This can be schooling, applying for X amount of jobs each week, take crappy jobs that the local government introduces to you etc. etc. This is just an addendum to those rules. Basically, if you are on these benefits, you owe society to get a job asap. That is the whole point. It is not so free handout, you need to become usefull to society. And speaking Dutch increases your chances of landing a job significantly.

And we are not talking about speaking it well. The law will state "a basic level" which means holding a simple convesation on current events. I also pointed out earlier that you get a year before they pull away all social security. Furthermore, it is something other non-EU foreigners already have to comply to, to even get their MVV (longstay) visa.

Stop taking things way out of context.

[Deleted]

In the Netherlands would it be considered bad if a teacher wanted to stop two people who speak Arabic from speaking Arabic to each other?

Not really, at least I think a teacher has the rights to do so.

[Stir]

In the Netherlands would it be considered bad if a teacher wanted to stop two people who speak Arabic from speaking Arabic to each other?

If it doesn't pertain to classes, then yes. Freedom of expression, and all. As long as you do not sabotage the classes themselves, you're allowed to speak any language you wish (and speak).
My example of the Spanish ban was from the US.

But like I stated earlier, there is no actual direct hypocricy that can be pointed out. Therefore, it was the sentiment I agreed with. Not an actually provable case of. A.... Hunch of hypocricy, if you wish.

[Uriel]

What most people seem to forget is that the immigrant must strive to learn the language. He/she doesn't have to speak it perfectly, but there most be evidence that this person really WANTS to learn it. For example Finnish is a quite complicated language. I know a guy who lived there for 7 years and still has problems mitigating some mistakes. But he tries his best to to actually get better at it. And that's the spirit.

Also some people are talking about tourists.. That is not the topic here, kids. We are talking about people who plan on staying for a longer time, maybe even forever. It is scientifically proven that people who do speak a language have more options and are generally better off than people who don't. On a side note, whenever I visit a foreign country, I try to learn some basic vocabs. In most cases the people there appreciate your effort, even if you make some mistakes. I once got into a conversation with a Polish woman, because I greeted her using polish. She thought I would understand her and started talking. After I explained to her that I only understand so much we both laughed and shared a pleasant conversation in English. I also learned a few more words from her, too. And that was just a vacation...

Here in Germany there are free german classes all over the place. You can do them as often as you need or like and don't have to pay anything for it. Unfortunately, not many people make good use of this. I know some people who have lived here for years and still they need their children to translate complicated stuff for them, because they only understand very basic vocabs at best. This is no joke and not hearsay, I actually KNOW some of those guys.

So my point is, those people obviously found ways to survive here just fine and never bothered to visit any of those german classes I mentioned. It wouldn't hurt if the government does some soft pressure encourage people to partake in those classes. It will even benefit them, by finding more friends, better jobs or just blend in the culture.

Of course, there are always exceptions, like mute people or people who can't learn the language for whatever reason, but those are well, exceptions. An average, healthy person who doesn't fall into that category should learn the language if he wishes to stay imo.

[Deleted]

Times change, but when you try to enforce foreign cultural things like a new language, it's only natural that the native people would fight it.. So do the right thing, and learn from what's happened to 99% of the native people to North and South America.

Which worked out rather well for the immigrants, who refused to assimilate. And quite bad for the natives.

I don't think that's the message you intended to convey.