Minnesota Man kills two teens breaking into his house. Trial Underway

[Super Friendly Kitty Cat]

So in your world killing people=posting on gaming forums. Strange.

Posting on game forums isn't helping to save lives, lives you have deemed valuable.

It's frivolous activity and entertainment.

Right now you value that over the value of human life.

[Wells]

Posting on game forums isn't helping to save lives, lives you have deemed valuable.

It's frivolous activity and entertainment.

Right now you value that over the value of human life.

Holy shit that is some tortured logic.

[s_bushido]

Posting on game forums isn't helping to save lives, lives you have deemed valuable.

It's frivolous activity and entertainment.

Right now you value that over the value of human life.

The hell are you talking about. You probably ignored it because it makes you look like a complete tool, but:

I don't think pointing out inconsistency in values obligates you to dedicate every moment of your life to self-sacrifice in the name of aiding the less fortunate.

[Deleted]

Posting on game forums isn't helping to save lives, lives you have deemed valuable.

It's frivolous activity and entertainment.

Right now you value that over the value of human life.

What am I reading?

[roxfm]

I feel sad that there are people in here that actually are defending what this person did. Should a person have a right to defend his own home? Absolutely. But stealing and/or losing your possessions are a far cry from taking someone's life. He should have warned them and called the cops. He should have handed them over to the police. They were children - I'm not saying they (the kids) were right, but like most teens, they are going through a phase in their life where adventure and adrenaline takes over their minds to decipher what's right or wrong.

I have a question for the people who agree with the shooter (hypothetical scenario):
Cops are patrolling during events like Spring Break or Mardi Gras - see a drunk or partially 'high' teenager causing nuisance. Proceed over to try and stop him, and he turn around and clenches a fist, or heck raises his arms in anger/excitement or w/e. Should the cops just open fire and take a killing blow for 'fear of their own life'? I mean they're not technically wrong - a drunk kid can be a threat, but shooting someone, let alone performing a kill shot, should not be the first solution, it should be the last resort. Do you think it is okay for cops to go for a kill shot every time their life is in danger?

Or say, I have a private property, which clearly states that trespassers will be shot - and some stranger rings a bell, or starts walking on my porch. I've just had a few break-ins in the last two weeks and I can hear this person approaching my doorstep. Should I just take my gun and shoot him? Without informing him?

There was no warning, no call to the police / law, nothing. The fact that so many people are split on this decision reminds me of how sad / threatened / terrorized our world has become.

[Super Friendly Kitty Cat]

Holy shit that is some tortured logic.

Actions speak louder than words.

I know at the end of the day, you Wells, feel you have accomplished something when you post an exceeding amount of hollow platitudes here on MMO-C, but in reality you take no real action, other than spent time and useless words on a sub-forum based on World of Warcraft.

I know it is painful when the realization of your 30,000 posts here are more reflective of your own impotence than anything tangible in the way of actually helping.

Infracted: Please be more respectful to other users

[dashflash890]

It amazing to me how many people say the kids got what was coming to them. They were kids who made a dumb mistake and should have been punished by the law, not executed. I thought human life was supposed to be valuable?

Your life is valuable but it depends on your ethnicity and sex etc.

[roxfm]

Actions speak louder than words.

By that logic, all newspapers and/or media agencies of all sorts (online or published) are worthless. Because, for the large part, they too are writing and/or reporting about it. Hardly any physical action takes place. Exactly what should a person do? It is a genuine question mind you - and I come from a nation of corrupted politicians and eff-ed up media who only serve to spread their own agendas or agendas that they have tied up with.

What we're all doing is discussing about an incident that took place and how people in the society feel about it. Nothing more, nothing less. Have you physically gone out and demonstrated in front of the white house or your own city hall (or its equivalent) to voice disagreement on every topic? Probably not. Most people tend to discuss things first and then use a more structured approach to problem solving. Is that the best way? Absolutely not. But unless it's an epidemic, I really doubt most people react so actively.

The only good thing that I hope will come out of this incident is that I hope it's an isolated one and doesn't get repeated. If this sort of stuff starts happening all the time, then yes, collectively, we need to do more than discussing on the a forum - gaming or otherwise.

[Aundas]

I feel like if this thread has taught me anything, its that I should try my luck at breaking into random houses. Because apparently the correct response is to barricade yourself in the bathroom and cry until I go away. And on the off-chance that I am confronted all I have to say to the homeowner is "Hey, think about what you're doing. Is stopping me from carrying away all your valuables really worth taking my life? Cuz you should value my life more than your flat-screen that I've got in my arms." And if that didn't work and they managed to knock me out or something I could probably sue them later for more than his TV was worth anyway.

[usiris]

Another post dismissing this site as "some shitty gaming forum"

What would you have someone do to show that they care?


..and hes banned D=

I feel like if this thread has taught me anything, its that I should try my luck at breaking into random houses. Because apparently the correct response is to barricade yourself in the bathroom and cry until I go away. And on the off-chance that I am confronted all I have to say to the homeowner is "Hey, think about what you're doing. Is stopping me from carrying away all your valuables really worth taking my life? Cuz you should value my life more than your flat-screen that I've got in my arms." And if that didn't work and they managed to knock me out or something I could probably sue them later for more than his TV was worth anyway.

Dude. We're not defending the kids because they broke into someone house. We're defending them because rather than shooting once/calling the cops he made it a point to "hunt" these kids down and end their life in a brutal/unnecessary fashion.

[Deleted]

I feel like if this thread has taught me anything, its that I should try my luck at breaking into random houses. Because apparently the correct response is to barricade yourself in the bathroom and cry until I go away. And on the off-chance that I am confronted all I have to say to the homeowner is "Hey, think about what you're doing. Is stopping me from carrying away all your valuables really worth taking my life? Cuz you should value my life more than your flat-screen that I've got in my arms." And if that didn't work and they managed to knock me out or something I could probably sue them later for more than his TV was worth anyway.

You know, people don't disagree with being allowed to defend yourself if you're threatened and your wellbeing is in danger. Killing someone for breaking in though and posing no threat? Yeah, no, don't do that.

[Mormolyce]

Forgive my snide but this is going to shock you but not everyone in America accepts this. Shocking I know.

Yeah I know, but it's fun to tar everyone with the same brush. Try it!

[Aundas]

You know, people don't disagree with being allowed to defend yourself if you're threatened and your wellbeing is in danger. Killing someone for breaking in though and posing no threat? Yeah, no, don't do that.

How much time will I give you though to determine if I'm a threat? Its a basic fight or flight response and its different with everyone. If you catch me in the act will I drop the stereo and bolt? Or will I vault over the couch with a knife? If you choose incorrectly things could go very poorly for you, you might get prosecuted, or if I'm the fighter, killed. Things have already gone downhill for me, I know I've made a mistake, done something illegal. Do I run and get caught later or try to silence you now? I'm probably screwed no matter what I choose (because I put myself in your house) but you are just in the wrong place at the wrong time. And the place happens to be your legal residence. That's a great situation to find yourself in, and while I agree that this guy went too far in his response, I don't believe he asked to be put in that situation. The kids should've stayed home and played video games. Or stayed at home and did drugs or really anything besides breaking into someone else's house.

[Mormolyce]

It's not so small a detail. In criminal cases like this, switching weapons, clearing a misfire, or reloading a weapon are all usually considered to be a point where you re-evaluate the situation. Emptying a gun in panic is arguable. Reloading or switching weapons or the like means it isn't panic or adrenaline, it's intent.

Didn't the original article mention a direct quote from him to one of the officers on the scene about getting a good clean finishing shot on the girl? IMO case closed right there.

What a fucking piece of work.

Posting on game forums isn't helping to save lives, lives you have deemed valuable.

It's frivolous activity and entertainment.

Right now you value that over the value of human life.

In light of this revelation I resolve to become morally ambivalent and cease any and all opinions until such time as I become Superman.

[Deleted]

How much time will I give you though to determine if I'm a threat? Its a basic fight or flight response and its different with everyone. If you catch me in the act will I drop the stereo and bolt? Or will I vault over the couch with a knife? If you choose incorrectly things could go very poorly for you, you might get prosecuted, or if I'm the fighter, killed. Things have already gone downhill for me, I know I've made a mistake, done something illegal. Do I run and get caught later or try to silence you now? I'm probably screwed no matter what I choose (because I put myself in your house) but you are just in the wrong place at the wrong time. And the place happens to be your legal residence. That's a great situation to find yourself in, and while I agree that this guy went too far in his response, I don't believe he asked to be put in that situation. The kids should've stayed home and played video games. Or stayed at home and did drugs or really anything besides breaking into someone else's house.

Again, most people who break into someones home don't actually expect someone to be home and will try to get the fuck out of there asap if they notice someone is home.

[Mormolyce]

Gun? I sleep with a sharp knife next to my bed if someone tries to come at me they won't get away uninjured

I find being in a country where I don't have to live in fear is much more economical.

[Aundas]

Again, most people who break into someones home don't actually expect someone to be home and will try to get the fuck out of there asap if they notice someone is home.

Did I mention that my grandfather went through almost the same scenario? I'll cut the crap and be serious here.

So my grandpa lived in an old, run down house. He was pretty old so the grass was uncut, trees weren't exactly trimmed, paint peeling and shutters loose. But he was an independent old man and stubborn, wouldn't accept help, even from his family. He didn't have a car, walked everywhere, so it probably looked like nobody lived there.

And he lived pretty close to a high school. So one night two teenage boys broke into his house while he was sleeping. He was a light sleeper so it woke him up. His house has no phone, and cell phones were alien to him. Being a stubborn old man of fearless stupidity he goes to investigate the noise. One of the teenagers is startled by the old man suddenly in the house he thought was abandoned, draws a knife and kills my grandpa.

But they're kids right? They didn't know any better. Also fight or flight and panic and stuff.

Look, this guy overreacted and was within rights to shoot the intruders, but probably should not have executed them and definitely should not have recorded the whole thing and acted so sadistic and cold.

But seriously, if its not your house, stay the hell out of it. If that's too difficult to understand then I don't want you in this world, and I don't care if you're under 18.

[Sastank]

I'd just use the whole "feared for my life" defense and "2 against 1" and well..quite frankly you're in my house and you're not allowed to be so0o yeah. Sucks people are dumb enough to break into houses still, this is what happens. Bad things happen to bad people.

[Deleted]

Did I mention that my grandfather went through almost the same scenario? I'll cut the crap and be serious here.

That doesn't justify shooting someone who poses no threat to you.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Nobody is actually defending the kids. We're opposing how the gunman reacted to the situation. He took it too far. Yeah those kids were doing stupid shit however even if it's in your home. People owe it to themselves to not go lower then those they hate(In this case, home *invaders*). I don't know what I would of done in this situation. Maybe I'd of end up hurt badly who knows.